Richard Cloutier: Fehr Playing/Losing Game of Russian Roulette

The owners will get their way, I just think most of you players are too stupid to realize this... This isn't about fair, life isn't fair. Unfortunately you play hockey a few years for 1 or 2 mill. It will get tight when half of your lifetime's hockey earning go up in smoke because of this. You are a constantly fading commodity as an athlete, age creeps up on us all but for you, you slower, and more busted up. When your career is over where will Don Fehr be when all you have is a grade 11 education because you were to busy is junior. Oh I know he will be lawyering along like he can making seven figures until he is done with it. Sure you may have graduated high school, but many of you have no chance of getting any kind of true education that will one day pay you what you could be making this month. You just gave up a paycheque last month that most probably would have made in a year or more... The owners don't care as much as you, for example Katz is still selling Tylenol and Turbolax to old people, the Oilers aren't his primary revenue they are a hobby. You think Bell/Rogers is starving, nope they just continue on with their PRIMARY BUSINESS: telecommunications, not hockey. When you are a billionaire a few million lost isn't like a few million lost to you players. Fair? Maybe not. But it is reality. I don't think your leadership is telling you that. Great to have Crosby out in front of the cameras, but what do you think Jacob Sliverberg or lenart petrell is thinking. Maybe they just lost 25% of their lifetimes earning. I am not saying you will cave, I am saying you should. Its simple math...

Just saying.

Fehr hasn't done anything yet... Anyone... ANYONE could do what Fehr has done so far. As someone who has experience with collective bargaining agreements, I can say that taking a break in negotiations is common. I actually thought that was common sense... I have no idea why people were surprised by it.

Oh and what about White's comments? What a class act that guy is. The NHLPA has become a circus, and sure enough, the players are acting like clowns.

Fehr was gambling with house money from the beginning. The NHLPA had zero leverage going into negotiations and they still have zero leverage.

When everything is said and done, the owners are going to come out miles ahead, Fehr is going to have egg all over his face, and players are going to be pissed they didn't take one of the offers when they had the chance.

If the NHLPA thinks the offers are going to start getting any better, they're dead wrong. The NHL already tried budging, the NHLPA refused to move. I'd like to see the players collective resolve when the NHL starts threatening to contract teams. See how pleased some of them are when they have to face a redistribution draft and serious loss of jobs.

The owners will get their way, I just think most of you players are too stupid to realize this... This isn't about fair, life isn't fair. Unfortunately you play hockey a few years for 1 or 2 mill. It will get tight when half of your lifetime's hockey earning go up in smoke because of this. You are a constantly fading commodity as an athlete, age creeps up on us all but for you, you slower, and more busted up. When your career is over where will Don Fehr be when all you have is a grade 11 education because you were to busy is junior. Oh I know he will be lawyering along like he can making seven figures until he is done with it. Sure you may have graduated high school, but many of you have no chance of getting any kind of true education that will one day pay you what you could be making this month. You just gave up a paycheque last month that most probably would have made in a year or more... The owners don't care as much as you, for example Katz is still selling Tylenol and Turbolax to old people, the Oilers aren't his primary revenue they are a hobby. You think Bell/Rogers is starving, nope they just continue on with their PRIMARY BUSINESS: telecommunications, not hockey. When you are a billionaire a few million lost isn't like a few million lost to you players. Fair? Maybe not. But it is reality. I don't think your leadership is telling you that. Great to have Crosby out in front of the cameras, but what do you think Jacob Sliverberg or lenart petrell is thinking. Maybe they just lost 25% of their lifetimes earning. I am not saying you will cave, I am saying you should. Its simple math...

Just saying.

- gomerbull

This! If there is no hockey what the hell are these guys qualified to do?!? Better get used to saying, "You want fries with that?"
Also, if what happened at Hostess here in the states doesn't scare the crap out of them and open their eyes, nothing will.

OMG, why why why. If it's up to me, I'm keeping Smyth, Horc, Jones, probably Petrell and Hordi too. Need leadership in the bottom 6, making a team full of kids like that is just a recipe for failure. I agree with getting rid of Eager and Belanger, but the best I'd go for is put VandeVelde in at 4C, and use some vets down there. Let Paajarvi, Lander and Harti develop unless they can push their way on there. I also think there's a good chance that Tobias Reider could be their 3rd Line RW, he's a phenomenal PK guy apparently, and can add some skill on that line. If Paajarvi or Harti can become a second line LW, which I think one of em can be, put the other with Lander and Reider on the 3rd eventually. But be patient. Going straight to that is a mistake.

Is everyone forgetting that if this thing drags out and the roster is purged that it's not just one team that will be effected. The free agent market now increases tenfold what else could Oiler fans ask for? The 2013 UFA's added to all of the buyouts a couple of good moves could move the Oil out of the gutter.

Dear God...

https://twitter.com/Darre...status/269594329817939968

As much I find it hard to say why not just play while negotiating.... This gives the NHL no leverage at all, and just allows the same to continue. The reality is the owners run the league and they deserve to make money before a player gets to complain that he makes 10 or 15% less. I swear these players just need to shut up and stop talking to the media and then group together and find a way to circumvent Fehr. He is destroying their season, income, chance at a career, what have you.... the worst decision was them getting rid of Paul Kelly. They looked at it as Fehr getting the best numbers, whereas Paul Kelly would get them a little less... however his intangibles were he had a repoire with the league and would have actually made them wealthy yet kept the league healthy and most importantly the fans happy.

Now the league,.....I really don't like the NHL's stance on length of contract at 5 years, there is no justification for it, honestly as long as the contract doesn't put the player past say 35 cause thats a realistic time to go on short deals... this is a bad point that they are stuck on and I hope it changes. On the other side the players argument that its the NHL's fault that they signed these contracts is BS, your greedy agents and yourselves included hold these teams at ransom with holdouts and demands. Yea you cry foul that you gave into a salary cap, but in reality you drove the demand for skill and talent way up and choked off the supply by causing teams to retain their talent, trying to stay competitive by offering extended contracts just to keep average salary caps down but still paying out the player.

Fehr needs to be put on ice, and someone else needs to step up

This! If there is no hockey what the hell are these guys qualified to do?!? Better get used to saying, "You want fries with that?"
Also, if what happened at Hostess here in the states doesn't scare the crap out of them and open their eyes, nothing will.
- duxcup07

Are you seriously comparing a company that makes twinkies and potato chips to a professional sports league??? Also you think that people who had the determination and drive to make it as far as the NHL would suddenly lose the drive and work ethic that made them NHL players and only be able to settle for a job as fast food employees???

Good perspective.

There are about 10 teams that would benefit tremendously from losing a full year of play. Florida, Minnesota, St. Louis, Ottawa, Brooklyn, Tampa and, especially Edmonton are loaded with great young talent who are currently playing in the AHL, junior or Europe. The face of these teams would be dramatically altered if a full year is missed.

Teams that are older and without strong player development could get ripped pretty badly. Detroit, Vancouver, Calgary and San Jose would be toast.

Rangers, Flyers and Kings would be in pretty good shape. Not sure which side of the profile some other teams would fall. Leafs might be okay, worry they just don't have enough development depth.

No doubt Oilers would be pretty potent force.

One fatal flaw in the article. Fehr doesn't choose which players go to the meetings. He has stated many times that the players are free to attend any meeting they choose. Cloutier does not provide any proof to back up the statement he made on that issue.

As much I find it hard to say why not just play while negotiating.... This gives the NHL no leverage at all, and just allows the same to continue. The reality is the owners run the league and they deserve to make money before a player gets to complain that he makes 10 or 15% less. I swear these players just need to shut up and stop talking to the media and then group together and find a way to circumvent Fehr. He is destroying their season, income, chance at a career, what have you.... the worst decision was them getting rid of Paul Kelly. They looked at it as Fehr getting the best numbers, whereas Paul Kelly would get them a little less... however his intangibles were he had a repoire with the league and would have actually made them wealthy yet kept the league healthy and most importantly the fans happy.

Now the league,.....I really don't like the NHL's stance on length of contract at 5 years, there is no justification for it, honestly as long as the contract doesn't put the player past say 35 cause thats a realistic time to go on short deals... this is a bad point that they are stuck on and I hope it changes. On the other side the players argument that its the NHL's fault that they signed these contracts is BS, your greedy agents and yourselves included hold these teams at ransom with holdouts and demands. Yea you cry foul that you gave into a salary cap, but in reality you drove the demand for skill and talent way up and choked off the supply by causing teams to retain their talent, trying to stay competitive by offering extended contracts just to keep average salary caps down but still paying out the player.

Fehr needs to be put on ice, and someone else needs to step up
- nelson911

Holdouts and demands? What holdouts are you referring to? And your forgetting that the teams have one simple thing that they can do, and that's say no. Nobody held a gun to their heads and forced them to sign those contracts. Players didn't drive up anything. That was all the teams doing. Not the players.

I really enjoy hearing the educated insights from the players over twitter.

Holdouts and demands? What holdouts are you referring to? And your forgetting that the teams have one simple thing that they can do, and that's say no. Nobody held a gun to their heads and forced them to sign those contracts. Players didn't drive up anything. That was all the teams doing. Not the players.
- MJL

This statemtent is utter lunacy. Do you actually believe that players and agents arent's threatening/demanding these long deals for ridiculous money? Of course they are! Owners are being played by agents saying if you do not ante up that another owner will and then you lose out.

It's easy to say "no" on a message board when you do not have the responsibility of improving your team, getting fans in the building etc etc. Not to mention the competitive streak to "beat" your opponents to the punch.

To lay the silly contracts of the last few years only at the feet of the owners is so terribly shortsited and rather ignorant. It is not a one way street.

This statemtent is utter lunacy. Do you actually believe that players and agents arent's threatening/demanding these long deals for ridiculous money? Of course they are! Owners are being played by agents saying if you do not ante up that another owner will and then you lose out.

It's easy to say "no" on a message board when you do not have the responsibility of improving your team, getting fans in the building etc etc. Not to mention the competitive streak to "beat" your opponents to the punch.

To lay the silly contracts of the last few years only at the feet of the owners is so terribly shortsited and rather ignorant. It is not a one way street.
- tboog6

It's clear that you have zero understanding of Free Agency, and individual contract negotiations. What do you think drives up players prices in Free Agency? Teams bidding against one another. Take Parise and Suter. Yea, they threatened teams and demanded offers from all of the teams that made offer to them! LOL Seriously? You know what Parise and Suter had to do on July 1 to start receiving offers from teams interested in their services? Turn on the fax machines in their agents offices, or answer the cell phones. Then say hey team A is offering this, what will you give me. It's called Free Agency. And Free Enterprise. Again, teams can simply say no thanks. You act as if the players are supposed to turn down the money. Players aren't forcing teams to do anything. The teams are willing participants.

The only statement that is utter lunacy is your own.

It's clear that you have zero understanding of Free Agency, and individual contract negotiations. What do you think drives up players prices in Free Agency? Teams bidding against one another. Take Parise and Suter. Yea, they threatened teams and demanded offers from all of the teams that made offer to them! LOL Seriously? You know what Parise and Suter had to do on July 1 to start receiving offers from teams interested in their services? Turn on the fax machines in their agents offices, or answer the cell phones. Then say hey team A is offering this, what will you give me. It's called Free Agency. And Free Enterprise. Again, teams can simply say no thanks. You act as if the players are supposed to turn down the money. Players aren't forcing teams to do anything. The teams are willing participants.

The only statement that is utter lunacy is your own.
- MJL

You are utterly oblivious to reason. Do you honestly believe the agents are not leveraging the teams into these offers? If you don't believe that then there is no point in having a discussion because it won't have any basis of reality. The agents jobs are to squeeze as much money as they can by playing GM's against one another and most of them do it very very well.

I know full we'll what free agency is and I do not believe the owners aren't at least somewhat culpable in it all. But to suggest they can all just say "no" and lay 100% of the blame of the salaries on them is mind boggling. There is plenty of people culpable and by suggesting that a simple no would solve the entire problem is silly.

I've seen that you are incredibly pro player on here and I don't profess to be able to convince you otherwise, but I know one thing, you are not convincing anyone that your POV is educated or rational even. Food for thought so to speak.

You are utterly oblivious to reason. Do you honestly believe the agents are not leveraging the teams into these offers? If you don't believe that then there is no point in having a discussion because it won't have any basis of reality. The agents jobs are to squeeze as much money as they can by playing GM's against one another and most of them do it very very well.


- tboog6

That is the Agents job. To get the best deal they can for their clients. That is why they are hired! What do you not understand about contract negotiations and Free Agency? You want to paint the players as doing something wrong by getting the best deal they can for themselves. It still doesn't change the fact that Owners can also negotiate. And aren't forced, or coerced into anything. They willingly bid against one another in driving up the market for players. Which in turn sets the market for other players. That is simple reasoning.

I know full we'll what free agency is and I do not believe the owners aren't at least somewhat culpable in it all. But to suggest they can all just say "no" and lay 100% of the blame of the salaries on them is mind boggling. There is plenty of people culpable and by suggesting that a simple no would solve the entire problem is silly.


- tboog6

They can say no. The Owners are without a doubt, the most responsible for the escalation of players salaries. And where did I say that a simple no would solve the entire problem?

I've seen that you are incredibly pro player on here and I don't profess to be able to convince you otherwise, but I know one thing, you are not convincing anyone that your POV is educated or rational even. Food for thought so to speak.
- tboog6

First of all, I'm not pro player. I'm pro for what I think is right. I could care less about convincing you of anything. But to blame the players for using the system as it is designed, is irrational. And it's a climate that has been built by Owners. My own team the Flyers has given out ridiculous contracts to players. And contributed greatly to the escalation of player salaries. Just look at the Weber Offer Sheet. But I guess that is Shea Weber's fault for signing the Offer Sheet. He should have said no thanks, I'll take less then that! LOL

I've been asking the following question for seven days straight, and I still have yet to receive an answer that is comprehensible: What exactly is Donald Fehr's agenda?

You havent been paying attention.

Ferh's agenda is to reach a deal that CREATES A HEALTHY LEAGUE



its all right there in the NHLPA's initial proposal (which is 10 times better for the NHL in the long run than anything the NHL has proposed)


Ferh AND THE PLAYERS, want to create a system that will stop teams from losing money PERMANENTLY. And stop the owners from reaching into the players pockets every 7 years


Higher revenue sharing, de-linkage, ability to trade cap space, etc. these are all ideas that make the league healthy and SUSTAINABLE

The NHL's only agenda is to curb spending immediately, but as revenues rise again, the same problem will occur and next cba the owners are going to want to drop the players share to 40%

You havent been paying attention.

Ferh's agenda is to reach a deal that CREATES A HEALTHY LEAGUE



its all right there in the NHLPA's initial proposal (which is 10 times better for the NHL in the long run than anything the NHL has proposed)


Ferh AND THE PLAYERS, want to create a system that will stop teams from losing money PERMANENTLY. And stop the owners from reaching into the players pockets every 7 years


Higher revenue sharing, de-linkage, ability to trade cap space, etc. these are all ideas that make the league healthy and SUSTAINABLE

The NHL's only agenda is to curb spending immediately, but as revenues rise again, the same problem will occur and next cba the owners are going to want to drop the players share to 40%



- conor_smythe

Agreed. Now I can't say for certain that all of those methods will definitely work. But the basic premise of your point is absolutely correct in my opinion.

I've stated it all along, the players are so clued out, it's really making them look stupid.

When your employer hansomly pays you a very good salary(500k min) with the average employee making in the millions, just what is there to gripe about??

And don't come on here & tell me it has anything to do with anything else because whether you're talking contracts, HRR, arbitration rights, it all comes back to money & these poor little boys making millions just can't get it thru their heads that kind of money allows you everything in life, everything & anyone who argues that point is either an idiot or doesn't know how to control their money.

The owners won't break, the NHLPA will, eventually & when they do, the deal that they end up signing will be 5 times worse than what the NHL has proposed already.

For some reason, they just don't understand that yet here a bunch of them are, playing hockey in Europe for what 100k, 150k possibly 200k & taking other guys jobs because of it - yeah i hope you spoiled, rotten little whining boys get what you deserve - a lockout that lasts for 5yrs!!

Way to go owners, stand your ground with these idiots because you & all of us know, eventually they'll be begging you to make a deal.

You are utterly oblivious to reason. Do you honestly believe the agents are not leveraging the teams into these offers? If you don't believe that then there is no point in having a discussion because it won't have any basis of reality. The agents jobs are to squeeze as much money as they can by playing GM's against one another and most of them do it very very well.

I know full we'll what free agency is and I do not believe the owners aren't at least somewhat culpable in it all. But to suggest they can all just say "no" and lay 100% of the blame of the salaries on them is mind boggling. There is plenty of people culpable and by suggesting that a simple no would solve the entire problem is silly.

I've seen that you are incredibly pro player on here and I don't profess to be able to convince you otherwise, but I know one thing, you are not convincing anyone that your POV is educated or rational even. Food for thought so to speak.
- tboog6

great post.

You havent been paying attention.

Ferh's agenda is to reach a deal that CREATES A HEALTHY LEAGUE



its all right there in the NHLPA's initial proposal (which is 10 times better for the NHL in the long run than anything the NHL has proposed)


Ferh AND THE PLAYERS, want to create a system that will stop teams from losing money PERMANENTLY. And stop the owners from reaching into the players pockets every 7 years


Higher revenue sharing, de-linkage, ability to trade cap space, etc. these are all ideas that make the league healthy and SUSTAINABLE

The NHL's only agenda is to curb spending immediately, but as revenues rise again, the same problem will occur and next cba the owners are going to want to drop the players share to 40%



- conor_smythe

is this a joke? a healthy league? how is it people live in this make believe world....

his end game is to keep every penny he can short and long term for his clients REGARDLESS of the health of the league

if he cared about anything but dollars and cents for the players, this lockout would already be over.

is this a joke? a healthy league? how is it people live in this make believe world....

his end game is to keep every penny he can short and long term for his clients REGARDLESS of the health of the league

if he cared about anything but dollars and cents for the players, this lockout would already be over.
- hugefemale dog77

That's not true. You can care about the future of the League and the deal for the players at the same time. The poster didn't state that Fehr only cares about the future and not the deal he gets for his players. You missed the point of the post.

is this a joke? a healthy league? how is it people live in this make believe world....

his end game is to keep every penny he can short and long term for his clients REGARDLESS of the health of the league

if he cared about anything but dollars and cents for the players, this lockout would already be over.
- hugefemale dog77

this doesnt make sense... if he cares about long term dollars, he obviously wants a healthy league. there's more money in it that way