Ryan Wilson: What can even be done? What can even be done?

Oh dear lord the end is nigh!

Graves is only a part of the issue. The defense as a whole has been lack luster. Hopefully Graves is like every other d-man that this organization brings in. They are awful the first year then get it figured out the second year. (Paul Martin, Mike Matheson were both terrible in their first year in Pitt).

This team is held together by underlying 5v5 numbers lol.

How many of the games have been lost due to not scoring power play goal(s)? Say it is even just 3 games, that changes a lot. Fix that first before making a ton of trades, etc.

Sully fired if they lose tonight? Gimme your odds on it.

Graves is only a part of the issue. The defense as a whole has been lack luster. Hopefully Graves is like every other d-man that this organization brings in. They are awful the first year then get it figured out the second year. (Paul Martin, Mike Matheson were both terrible in their first year in Pitt).
- Zig44

I think you're incorrect here. The defense as a whole has been fine. Graves alone has been an issue. The third pair as been an issue at times which is going to happen when you're a third pair, but all in all this team is where it's at because it can't score on the man advantage.

At 5v5, the only D with negative goal differentials are 3rd pairing dmen.

How many of the games have been lost due to not scoring power play goal(s)? Say it is even just 3 games, that changes a lot. Fix that first before making a ton of trades, etc.
- mventres

3 for sure. Maybe as many as 5.

3 for sure. Maybe as many as 5.
- madmike71

Yeah, I was purposely low-balling it. It's in that range, and if they had even an average PP then we aren't having this discussion. So, let the coaches and players focus on that as there is a ton of talent and no reason why they shouldn't be scoring at a much higher frequency on the PP.

Yeah, I was purposely low-balling it. It's in that range, and if they had even an average PP then we aren't having this discussion. So, let the coaches and players focus on that as there is a ton of talent and no reason why they shouldn't be scoring at a much higher frequency on the PP.
- mventres

I think it's definitely 3-5.

If only 5-on-5 goals counted, they'd have 12 wins, 8 losses, and 5 ties. Assuming in this made-up world they still suck in OT (1-4) they'd have 30 points, 5 more points than they actually have, and good enough for 2nd in the Metro.

I think you're incorrect here. The defense as a whole has been fine. Graves alone has been an issue. The third pair as been an issue at times which is going to happen when you're a third pair, but all in all this team is where it's at because it can't score on the man advantage.

At 5v5, the only D with negative goal differentials are 3rd pairing dmen.
- j.boyd919

Man I really liked the Graves signing. (frank)ing sucks it’s turning out the way it is since his contract is so big he’s likely here to stay.

RW won’t admit it but really the only move to make is to swap out Sullivan and see if some of these struggling guys can turn it around under a new vision. Yes Sullivan is a good coach, and yes there is significant risk we will end up with a downgrade, but Sully’s shelf life has expired and sticking with him isn’t going to get us anywhere. Same exact situation as Tomlin.

Yeah, I was purposely low-balling it. It's in that range, and if they had even an average PP then we aren't having this discussion. So, let the coaches and players focus on that as there is a ton of talent and no reason why they shouldn't be scoring at a much higher frequency on the PP.
- mventres

That's what I keep thinking about... If the team were just average on the PP, there wouldn't be so much angst. Not being able to score on the PP with all these stars makes zero sense and that's the one thing that allows me to have some hope. They should be able to turn it around.

As someone asked above... Is Sully getting fired? No chance. Not now anyway. What should have happened weeks ago is a PP coach getting hired. A different perspective/different voice is what they need IMO. There's got to be somebody available that these players will listen to.

FWIW... Yohe said yesterday that Sullivan is begging them to simplify and get pucks to the net.

At least it will be interesting watching new players in different positions. The team will probably play a more disciplined game, which will be a breath of fresh air.

Harkins was usually center before he was with the Pens, wasn't he?

I'd be fine with giving all of that a look.
- MattStrat

Yes he's played mostly center and some left wing. I don't know if Harkins played any right wing prior to the Pens.

What should have happened weeks ago is a PP coach getting hired.

- Madmike71

What should have happened and still needs to happen is the power play FIX. Whether that is a new PP coach or not it really doesn’t matter. It is Sullivan’s task to FIX it. If he can’t, then the responsibility for ACTION moves on up to Dubas… just like in any business.
I would say if it looks tonight like it has been looking… that is (absolutely pathetic, perimeter play, no net front presence) personnel need changed… in the coaching or in the players participating. I kid a little bit about the CHEF CARTER… but I ask again – what is there to lose?

Man I really liked the Graves signing. (frank)ing sucks it’s turning out the way it is since his contract is so big he’s likely here to stay.

RW won’t admit it but really the only move to make is to swap out Sullivan and see if some of these struggling guys can turn it around under a new vision. Yes Sullivan is a good coach, and yes there is significant risk we will end up with a downgrade, but Sully’s shelf life has expired and sticking with him isn’t going to get us anywhere. Same exact situation as Tomlin.
- Victoro311

Agree. There's a good chance we get worse because I agree Sully is a good coach, but he's out of answers here and the team needs a fresh set of eyes to look at them..

Man I really liked the Graves signing. (frank)ing sucks it’s turning out the way it is since his contract is so big he’s likely here to stay.

RW won’t admit it but really the only move to make is to swap out Sullivan and see if some of these struggling guys can turn it around under a new vision. Yes Sullivan is a good coach, and yes there is significant risk we will end up with a downgrade, but Sully’s shelf life has expired and sticking with him isn’t going to get us anywhere. Same exact situation as Tomlin.
- Victoro311

The analytics guys weren't too fond of the Graves signing when it happened. I think a lot of people (non-analytics) thought he was more physical and a better defensively then he is. But on the otherhand, Devils fans think their D sucks because they lost him. I think maybe a different defensive system would benefit Graves but with Reirden here, that ain't changing.

Agree. There's a good chance we get worse because I agree Sully is a good coach, but he's out of answers here and the team needs a fresh set of eyes to look at them..
- Tojo.

I want to see BBQ Bruce behind the Pens bench lol

- Madmike71

What should have happened and still needs to happen is the power play FIX. Whether that is a new PP coach or not it really doesn’t matter. It is Sullivan’s task to FIX it. If he can’t, then the responsibility for ACTION moves on up to Dubas… just like in any business.
I would say if it looks tonight like it has been looking… that is (absolutely pathetic, perimeter play, no net front presence) personnel need changed… in the coaching or in the players participating. I kid a little bit about the CHEF CARTER… but I ask again – what is there to lose?
- sufi-judge

At this point I could care less who they put in front of the net. Personally, I think Carter's scoring touch is largely gone. It was noticeable last year when he'd have point blank chances and flub his shots. I can't say I've seen anything this year that indicates last year was a fluke. It's to be expected that old guys lose their touch.

If JC is willing (I don't think he is) to stand there and take that beating, sure, why not.

- Madmike71

What should have happened and still needs to happen is the power play FIX. Whether that is a new PP coach or not it really doesn’t matter. It is Sullivan’s task to FIX it. If he can’t, then the responsibility for ACTION moves on up to Dubas… just like in any business.
I would say if it looks tonight like it has been looking… that is (absolutely pathetic, perimeter play, no net front presence) personnel need changed… in the coaching or in the players participating. I kid a little bit about the CHEF CARTER… but I ask again – what is there to lose?
- sufi-judge

I believe Carter should be the one tried on the PP.

I agree, I'd rather see Carter there than Vinny, Nylander, Zohorna, or anyone else.

Sully fired if they lose tonight? Gimme your odds on it.
- coohill

Hoping for an absolute blowout.

You need a total rebuild…youre not sniffing a cup with this group. I think your window has shut tight.

You need a total rebuild…youre not sniffing a cup with this group. I think your window has shut tight.
- LFS

Not worried about sniffing a cup. Thanks for coming though.

At this point I could care less who they put in front of the net. Personally, I think Carter's scoring touch is largely gone. It was noticeable last year when he'd have point blank chances and flub his shots. I can't say I've seen anything this year that indicates last year was a fluke. It's to be expected that old guys lose their touch.

If JC is willing (I don't think he is) to stand there and take that beating, sure, why not.
- madmike71

You do realize that 1. You don’t really take a beating in front anymore and 2. He parks right there on the 2nd PP.