I will find some depth when you find some new things to complain about other than the dinosaurs, the archaic manipulator, the mediocre 3rd pair d-man, etc. I'm heading to work - enjoy your day arguing!
- Don Nachbaur

The first thing you need to do is understand context and that there was no complaining being done in that post about senior advisors. The conversation was concerning Cam York. You show up and this is the best you've got? This is the depth of your ability to converse?

It's absolutely a contradiction. You just don't realize that he was overwhelmed because he was rushed into the #1 defenseman role at a very young age as a player. The effects of that are cumulative and happen over time. Not right away.
- MJL

As usual, we will agree to disagree. The whole context here was discussing if he was rushed. He played very well his first few years at the NHL level. I actually thought he would be a Norris candidate at some point. There was absolutely no reason for him to toil at the AHL level when he was playing that way at the NHL level. He was NHL ready and that was rather apparent. He became overwhelmed with time because the organization failed to give him the support players that he apparently needed. HE WASN"T RUSHED TO THE NHL. Thanks!

As usual, we will agree to disagree. The whole context here was discussing if he was rushed. He played very well his first few years at the NHL level. I actually thought he would be a Norris candidate at some point. There was absolutely no reason for him to toil at the AHL level when he was playing that way at the NHL level. He was NHL ready and that was rather apparent. He became overwhelmed with time because the organization failed to give him the support players that he apparently needed. HE WASN"T RUSHED TO THE NHL. Thanks!
- Phillywhiteout

Bening rushed does not just apply to being in the AHL versus the NHL. It also applies to usage and deployment and how a player is used. It's about aspects of player development and he was not developed properly.

The player was handled properly. Credit to York for being a professional and not being demoralized by the demotion. I’m not some huge Torts guy either, he certainly has his warts. But a lot of complaining is overblown, some is warranted
- ClaudeFather

Torts also took the time to say he wanted York to be a difference maker, want to make plays, that he wanted York to be more assertive. Going down and playing top minutes with that in mind is not a bad thing. Yes, there is a case he was one of the top 6 availalbe for the NHL squad, I think he was but I also like Torts challenging him, getting him top minutes and York responding.

It does seem when Torts sees talent where the player is laid back he pushes really hard, York and Frost seem to be good examples of this, Torts way of getting it out of them, don't completely agree with his approach but I get it.

Bening rushed does not just apply to being in the AHL versus the NHL. It also applies to usage and deployment and how a player is used. It's about aspects of player development and he was not developed properly.
- MJL

Perhaps you need to go back and look at the original question that was posed? The guy mentioned that Provorov never spent any time in the AHL (comparing him to York). I was responding to his question, so in this case being in the AHL versus the NHL is relevant in the conversation. It does indeed apply to being in the AHL in this instance and the way Provorov handled the NHL proves that he didn't need time in the AHL. You can't see this somehow? More spin doctoring incoming.

Torts also took the time to say he wanted York to be a difference maker, want to make plays, that he wanted York to be more assertive. Going down and playing top minutes with that in mind is not a bad thing. Yes, there is a case he was one of the top 6 availalbe for the NHL squad, I think he was but I also like Torts challenging him, getting him top minutes and York responding.

It does seem when Torts sees talent where the player is laid back he pushes really hard, York and Frost seem to be good examples of this, Torts way of getting it out of them, don't completely agree with his approach but I get it.
- wcorvette

When York came back up from the AHL, was he playing top minutes in the NHL?

I could swear today was the day.
- SuperSchennBros

Depends how the contract reads…all in the wording. It was a year ago today the TDA to Philly deal was made. I think tomorrow….I’m sure the league has given its directive to both teams.

Perhaps you need to go back and look at the original question that was posed? The guy mentioned that Provorov never spent any time in the AHL (comparing him to York). I was responding to his question, so in this case being in the AHL versus the NHL is relevant in the conversation. It does indeed apply to being in the AHL in this instance and the way Provorov handled the NHL proves that he didn't need time in the AHL. You can't see this somehow? More spin doctoring incoming.

- Phillywhiteout

Sure it's relevant but again, that is not the only manner in how a player is rushed. Your accusation that I don't see that he belonged in the NHL is your invention. I have not in any way suggested in my replies to you that Provorov shouldn't have been in the NHL. My premise is that he was rushed into the #1 role in the NHL.

Sure it's relevant but again, that is not the only manner in how a player is rushed. Your accusation that I don't see that he belonged in the NHL is your invention. I have not in any way suggested in my replies to you that Provorov shouldn't have been in the NHL. My premise is that he was rushed into the #1 role in the NHL.
- MJL

And now you are moving the goalposts. This was in reference to the fact as to whether Provorov was rushed to the NHL. You are now changing things up to say that he was rushed to being a #1 defenseman in the NHL. That's a different kettle of fish and that wasn't what this discussion was about. Whether he was rushed to being a #1 defender is up for debate and in time it became apparent that he wasn't able to handle it. However, given more support with better players around him the outcome very well may have been different.

And now you are moving the goalposts. This was in reference to the fact as to whether Provorov was rushed to the NHL. You are now changing things up to say that he was rushed to being a #1 defenseman in the NHL. That's a different kettle of fish and that wasn't what this discussion was about. Whether he was rushed to being a #1 defender is up for debate and in time it became apparent that he wasn't able to handle it. However, given more support with better players around him the outcome very well may have been different.
- Phillywhiteout

No, I didn't change anything. That was my position the entire time. I understand that you were focused on the AHL/NHL factor so I withdraw the comment that there was a contradiction. Just realize that there are many facets to rushing a player. Provorov was rushed into the #1 defenseman role in the NHL

On one hand you say he wasn't rushed and then say he was overwhelmed playing on a bad team. That's a contradiction. Having to be the team's #1 all situation defenseman since he was 19 or 20 years old. Is being rushed. Why did he have to try and do too much?
- MJL

Last post 10:25 Friday night. First post 7:44 Saturday morning. Guess the date didnt go well.

Also Cliff Ivan was not rushed in anyway shape or form. That is 100% incorrect to say so. If you want to say he shouldn't have been thrust into the #1 guy that is a very valid argument.

Who was the GM who put both Ivan and Sanheim in a position to fail?