Ghost was traded right after covid in the middle of 2 years of a flat cap. Teams who had built their rosters under the assumption that the cap would always go up were screwed and hence the exorbitant prices to move salary.

The unique economic circumstances at the time dictated the price more than his abilities.
- Flyers_01

Lol context matters. It’s a terrible comparison

Hayes to Carolina with half the cap eaten by the Flyers. Carolina has cap but they won't eat any more than any other team. Staal, Stastny, and Stepan are off the books. Hayes could fit. I won't speculate on a return or what else the Flyers have to give up. I just think there could be a fit.

Ghost was traded right after covid in the middle of 2 years of a flat cap. Teams who had built their rosters under the assumption that the cap would always go up were screwed and hence the exorbitant prices to move salary.

The unique economic circumstances at the time dictated the price more than his abilities.
- Flyers_01

The cap is still flat, it's only going up by $1M again this summer. Lot of teams are in cap trouble and need to desperately shed salary asap. Who can afford Hayes as a hockey trade, even with money retained? That list isn't long and there will likely be better options than Hayes available anyway. We're talking a soon to be 32-yo guy who needs 18mins a game to put up just 50-points and is below replacement defensively.

So that likely leaves him as a pure salary dump, which cost other teams:

- Marleau ($6.26M, 1-year remaining): 1st (13th-overall) + 7th
- Dadonov ($5M, 1-year remaining): 2nd (voided)
- Monahan ($6.375M, 1-year remaining): 1st
- Gostisbehere ($4.5M, 2-years remaining): 2nd + 7th
- Nemeth ($2.5M, 1-year remaining): 2nd + 3rd
- T Johnson ($5M, 2-years remaining): 2nd
- Kassian ($3.2M, 1-year remaining): 1st (traded down 3-spots) + 2nd + 3rd
- etc


Of course, none of those guys had the kind of cap hit, term and actual salary that Hayes still has left, so expect the cost to be high even if they eat 50%. The best case scenario would be giving him away for futures (Pacioretty) but I don't think his term really makes that possible.

At the end of the day, I think Danny's gonna be looking at an assortment of horrible options and he'll just wave the white flag and buy Hayes out.

The cap is still flat, it's only going up by $1M again this summer. Lot of teams are in cap trouble and need to desperately shed salary asap. Who can afford Hayes as a hockey trade, even with money retained? That list isn't long and there will likely be better options than Hayes available anyway. We're talking a soon to be 32-yo guy who needs 18mins a game to put up just 50-points and is below replacement defensively.

So that likely leaves him as a pure salary dump, which cost other teams:

- Marleau ($6.26M, 1-year remaining): 1st (13th-overall) + 7th
- Dadonov (see above): 2nd (voided)
- Monahan ($6.375M, 1-year remaining): 1st
- Gostisbehere ($4.5M, 2-years remaining): 2nd + 7th
- Nemeth ($2.5M, 1-year remaining): 2nd + 3rd
- T Johnson ($5M, 2-years remaining): 2nd
- Kassian ($3.2M, 1-year remaining): 1st (traded down 3-spots) + 2nd + 3rd
- etc


Of course, none of those guys had the kind of cap hit, term and actual salary that Hayes still has left, so expect the cost to be high even if they eat 50%. The best case scenario would be giving him away for futures (Pacioretty) but I don't think his term really makes that possible.

At the end of the day, I think Danny's gonna be looking at an assortment of horrible options and he'll just wave the white flag and buy Hayes out.
- Tomahawk

Just the tip of the anchor ⚓️ iceberg Chuck created. Let's hope Couturier gets back to vintage form for 2-3 years.

Hayes to Carolina with half the cap eaten by the Flyers. Carolina has cap but they won't eat any more than any other team. Staal, Stastny, and Stepan are off the books. Hayes could fit. I won't speculate on a return or what else the Flyers have to give up. I just think there could be a fit.
- The_Journeyman

Carolina has a strong need to add top line offensive players. That is not Hayes. Carolina has shown a real ability to find players who are low cap and high value. I'd be very, very surprised if they would have interest in Hayes and would be willing to take him on for 3 more years even at a 50% cap hit.

The cap is still flat, it's only going up by $1M again this summer. Lot of teams are in cap trouble and need to desperately shed salary asap. Who can afford Hayes as a hockey trade, even with money retained? That list isn't long and there will likely be better options than Hayes available anyway. We're talking a soon to be 32-yo guy who needs 18mins a game to put up just 50-points and is below replacement defensively.

So that likely leaves him as a pure salary dump, which cost other teams:

- Marleau ($6.26M, 1-year remaining): 1st (13th-overall) + 7th
- Dadonov (see above): 2nd (voided)
- Monahan ($6.375M, 1-year remaining): 1st
- Gostisbehere ($4.5M, 2-years remaining): 2nd + 7th
- Nemeth ($2.5M, 1-year remaining): 2nd + 3rd
- T Johnson ($5M, 2-years remaining): 2nd
- Kassian ($3.2M, 1-year remaining): 1st (traded down 3-spots) + 2nd + 3rd
- etc


Of course, none of those guys had the kind of cap hit, term and actual salary that Hayes still has left, so expect the cost to be high even if they eat 50%. The best case scenario would be giving him away for futures (Pacioretty) but I don't think his term really makes that possible.

At the end of the day, I think Danny's gonna be looking at an assortment of horrible options and he'll just wave the white flag and buy Hayes out.
- Tomahawk

If the cap is indeed going to be going up significantly in 2 or 3 years, a buyout is looking better and better.

year 1 +$4,888,889 (23-24)
year 2 +$2,388,889 (24-25)
year 3 +$2,388,889 (25-26)
year 4 -$1,611,111 (26-27)
year 5 -$1,611,111 (27-28)
year 6 -$1,611,111 (28-29)

That last three years of $1.62 on the cap may be manageable if the cap is $92 million like many have speculated.

I don't know. I don't want them to be giving up draft assets to get rid of his contract. That to me is counter productive.

Hayes to Carolina with half the cap eaten by the Flyers. Carolina has cap but they won't eat any more than any other team. Staal, Stastny, and Stepan are off the books. Hayes could fit. I won't speculate on a return or what else the Flyers have to give up. I just think there could be a fit.
- The_Journeyman

If you can't get any value after eating 50%, then there is no fit. Just keep him on the books at $7MM. If anything, his salary will at least prevent them from making additional mistakes on top of the ones they already have...

If you can't get any value after eating 50%, then there is not fit. Just keep him on the books at $7MM. If anything, his salary will at least prevent them from making additional mistakes on top of the ones they already have...
- mr4tno

yeah, there is that...benefit..

The cap is still flat, it's only going up by $1M again this summer. Lot of teams are in cap trouble and need to desperately shed salary asap. Who can afford Hayes as a hockey trade, even with money retained? That list isn't long and there will likely be better options than Hayes available anyway. We're talking a soon to be 32-yo guy who needs 18mins a game to put up just 50-points and is below replacement defensively.

So that likely leaves him as a pure salary dump, which cost other teams:

- Marleau ($6.26M, 1-year remaining): 1st (13th-overall) + 7th
- Dadonov (see above): 2nd (voided)
- Monahan ($6.375M, 1-year remaining): 1st
- Gostisbehere ($4.5M, 2-years remaining): 2nd + 7th
- Nemeth ($2.5M, 1-year remaining): 2nd + 3rd
- T Johnson ($5M, 2-years remaining): 2nd
- Kassian ($3.2M, 1-year remaining): 1st (traded down 3-spots) + 2nd + 3rd
- etc


Of course, none of those guys had the kind of cap hit, term and actual salary that Hayes still has left, so expect the cost to be high even if they eat 50%. The best case scenario would be giving him away for futures (Pacioretty) but I don't think his term really makes that possible.

At the end of the day, I think Danny's gonna be looking at an assortment of horrible options and he'll just wave the white flag and buy Hayes out.
- Tomahawk

I've been thinking that buying him out would end up being the end game for some time now. I'm not familiar with the logistics in doing this, but the hell with giving up more assets to get a bad contract off the books. The cap is supposed to go up dramatically after this coming season from what I have heard.

Just the tip of the anchor ⚓️ iceberg Chuck created. Let's hope Couturier gets back to vintage form for 2-3 years.
- THE EVIL WITHIN

Hasn't played since Dec 2021 and is turning 31 in December 2023 with 2 back surgeries and is signed with a full NMC through 2029, modified NTC 2030.

He was accumulating a lot of injuries even before the back surgeries. The year before he had a costochondral separation, in which one of his ribs tore away from the attached cartilage and a hip injury.

I just don't know what the best case is with him. In theory, the 2 years he just missed were going to be his best remaining hockey years. He plays hard and takes a lot of punishment, does anyone think he holds up during the season? What if it turns out that time and injuries have turned him into a Kevin Hayes type player. Someone who is getting paid for a player who he no longer is?

If you can't LTIR him, it would be a Bryz type situation to buy him out for a 10+ years, and nobody is taking that contract.

If the Flyers can get a year or two out of him that would be good i guess? One less spot for a kid with a future on this team and a few more games won? Even if he has a great year, I don't see him being tradable in the next few years.

Heck what about Atkinson, is he tradable? I guess not until he proves he is healthy either. The Flyers could probably pay for half of the ARI team salary for what they have on LTIR.

If the cap is indeed going to be going up significantly in 2 or 3 years, a buyout is looking better and better.

year 1 +$4,888,889 (23-24)
year 2 +$2,388,889 (24-25)
year 3 +$2,388,889 (25-26)
year 4 -$1,611,111 (26-27)
year 5 -$1,611,111 (27-28)
year 6 -$1,611,111 (28-29)

That last three years of $1.62 on the cap may be manageable if the cap is $92 million like many have speculated.

I don't know. I don't want them to be giving up draft assets to get rid of his contract. That to me is counter productive.
- MBFlyerfan

In my opinion, simply riding the contract out is preferable to trading assets to move him or a buy out.

Hayes to Carolina with half the cap eaten by the Flyers. Carolina has cap but they won't eat any more than any other team. Staal, Stastny, and Stepan are off the books. Hayes could fit. I won't speculate on a return or what else the Flyers have to give up. I just think there could be a fit.
- The_Journeyman

Hayes is too slow, he is not a fit for Carolina.

Hayes is too slow, he is not a fit for Carolina.
- WhiskeyMan

And he ain't Finnish

(I think they'd be much more interested in dudes like Garland, Hall, Kuz and Hagel who are also rumored to be cap casualties)

In my opinion, simply riding the contract out is preferable to trading assets to move him or a buy out.
- MJL

Haha I'd love to see Danny tell Torts to go (frank) himself.

Hayes is too slow, he is not a fit for Carolina.
- WhiskeyMan

I wonder if he is really a fit anywhere. He is a lumbering skater and doesn't hit a fly despite being a big guy. I mean, look at the Flyers group of forwards this past season. And he was still playing on the 3rd line. What a terrible signing this was. Chuckles is the gift that keeps on giving!

Haha I'd love to see Danny tell Torts to go (frank) himself.
- Tomahawk

I can see riding out the contract as just being a distraction both in the locker room and on the ice. Three more years of Torts and Hayes going at it?

Not sure if that is worth it.

Haha I'd love to see Danny tell Torts to go (frank) himself.
- Tomahawk

That is something that is both a need to happen and will likely be a frequent need to happen.

I wonder if he is really a fit anywhere. He is a lumbering skater and doesn't hit a fly despite being a big guy. I mean, look at the Flyers group of forwards this past season. And he was still playing on the 3rd line. What a terrible signing this was. Chuckles is the gift that keeps on giving!
- Phillywhiteout

Hayes is a deliberate player but he is not slow. He can skate when he wants to. Hayes should've been playing at center on one of the top two lines all last season.

New blob

Carolina has a strong need to add top line offensive players. That is not Hayes. Carolina has shown a real ability to find players who are low cap and high value. I'd be very, very surprised if they would have interest in Hayes and would be willing to take him on for 3 more years even at a 50% cap hit.
- MJL

I partially agree. But free agents are few, and trades where you don't give up assets are few. Hayes as a free buy at 3.55 for 3 years to fit in any one of your bottom 3 centres is not bad if you give up nothing or maybe a low pick or a AAAA player on an NHL contract to keep slots even. Compared to what Carolina was spending on those 3, it is a value upgrade, though Hayes doesn't bring what Staal does in obvious ways.

I partially agree. But free agents are few, and trades where you don't give up assets are few. Hayes as a free buy at 3.55 for 3 years to fit in any one of your bottom 3 centres is not bad if you give up nothing or maybe a low pick or a AAAA player on an NHL contract to keep slots even. Compared to what Carolina was spending on those 3, it is a value upgrade, though Hayes doesn't bring what Staal does in obvious ways.
- The_Journeyman

Look at how Carolina operates. They don't make moves just to make them. They don't settle for just what is available. If a move doesn't fit them, they don't make it. Hayes is really not that good of a player. If he get's top 6 ice time, he may get you 40-50 points. Hayes is not a good possession player or good away from the puck. I don't see him being Carolina's kind of player. Regardless of how much salary is retained or what the cost is to acquire. Carolina is very high on Kotkaniemi and they think he is ready to take another step.