Ben Shelley: Islanders hold off Flyers in Bo Horvat’s debut

From the end of the last blog:

Well, there's Pelech, Pulock, Nelson, Cizikas, Clutterbuck, Barzal, & Sorokin from that era

I think unquestionably I dont see Bailey being that guy either. In fact I'd prefer two shooters on that line, as having two feeders and one shooter is a good bit easier to defend.
- keaner17


Its funny when you delve a little deeper into your picks they arent as impressive. You have Cizikas who was not selected because of his Rugby incident. Barzal was passed up by the bruins 3 picks in a row. Sorokin wasnt selected because of his KHL contract and the uncertainty of his NHL availability. Clutterbuck was traded for a top 5 pick....Id argue that you wouldnt select Clutterbuck as the 5th overall. Pelech was selected in the 3rd round as became a pleasant surprise. Pulock and Nelson came as advertised. Being that the isles missed on a roster of players including but not limited to top 5 picks, Strome, Bailey, Reinhardt, Neiderreiter, Dal Colle etc in pivotal rebuild years......i dont give credit for two successful players in Nelson and Pulock who came as advertised. Lest we forget the Kirills, and the Ho Sang experiments.....or the Vanek debacle, along with the Tavares debacle. I'd argue there hasnt been a worse GM in all of sports history.

Power Play went 1 for 3 last night, the dry spell is over?


John Tonelli for HOF

Power Play went 1 for 3 last night, the dry spell is over?


John Tonelli for HOF
- Tee56

Let the floodgates open!

I'd argue there hasnt been a worse GM in all of sports history.
- kindlyrick

Hmmm, I dunno about that but at least in Isles history maybe, although Milbury did some pretty awful things. The fact that Snow was able to remain as long as he did was the worst of it. His drafting was so-so. Not good, but I've seen worse. Ultimately it was his head coach selections that did him in the most damage

Interestingly enough, Snow doesn't even show up in most top 10 polls for worst NHL gm ever. Milbury however owns the top spot quite often.

Hmmm, I dunno about that but at least in Isles history maybe, although Milbury did some pretty awful things. The fact that Snow was able to remain as long as he did was the worst of it. His drafting was so-so. Not good, but I've seen worse. Ultimately it was his head coach selections that did him in the most damage

Interestingly enough, Snow doesn't even show up in most top 10 polls for worst NHL gm ever. Milbury however owns the top spot quite often.
- keaner17

My post was about his drafting. It was absolutely not so so. Name a GM who’s drafted worse? I can’t think of a GM who’s missed on 5 top 5 picks, all in rebuild years. I’d argue that you and I or anyone on this site who follows hockey could do the same job or better.
Milbury had the excuse of ownership pinching Pennie’s and forcing his hand to dump salary. Snow did everything poorly and for 12 years, all while lying and defending his failure.

My post was about his drafting. It was absolutely not so so. Name a GM who’s drafted worse? I can’t think of a GM who’s missed on 5 top 5 picks, all in rebuild years. I’d argue that you and I or anyone on this site who follows hockey could do the same job or better.
Milbury had the excuse of ownership pinching Pennie’s and forcing his hand to dump salary. Snow did everything poorly and for 12 years, all while lying and defending his failure.
- kindlyrick

If we're being honest, I don't really understand your rationale about Cizikas/Barzal/Sorokin. For starters, Sorokin didn't have any sort of long-term deal in the KHL when he was drafted that I'm aware of. Not one that would have kept him there past around the time the Isles would've liked to bring him over. That extension came later.

I don't see what Sweeney passing on Barzal 3x has to do with making Snow look bad. It makes Sweeney look bad, yeah. But I don't see how the Bruins (and several other teams) passing on Barzal somehow becomes a knock on Snow.

I also don't understand the Cizikas one. There was some uncertainty as to what Cizikas' legal status was and what the future held for him. He fell a little further than expected and Snow took a risk on him.

You didn't mention Lee, who'd have gone a few rounds higher if there wasn't uncertainty about whether he'd commit to football or hockey. Another one Snow too a risk on that paid off big time.

I don't think there was a single person on earth that did anything other than criticize Snow for getting Clutterbuck for Nino.

How does Pelech "becoming a pleasant surprise" reflect poorly on Snow? He made a good pick in the 3rd round that panned out.

None of this is a defense of Snow either, guy was a clown and that was obvious. But I'm also not about to discredit the good things that he did do. Keaner is right, his draft record was so-so. Top 5 picks were pretty bad, but he did a lot of good outside of that.

My post was about his drafting. It was absolutely not so so. Name a GM who’s drafted worse? I can’t think of a GM who’s missed on 5 top 5 picks, all in rebuild years. I’d argue that you and I or anyone on this site who follows hockey could do the same job or better.
Milbury had the excuse of ownership pinching Pennie’s and forcing his hand to dump salary. Snow did everything poorly and for 12 years, all while lying and defending his failure.
- kindlyrick

Defending Snow is certainly not on my list of desirable to-do's
He had five total top five picks I believe:
1st overall John Tavares (I wanted Hedman,)
5th overall" Ryan Strome
5th Nino Niedereeiter
4th Griffin Reinhart
5th Michael DalColle
I will say that at the time Griffin was a very highly regarded prospect that many saw as a franchise dman. Both Nino and Strome were also highly touted. Dal Colle was the big head-scratcher to me. The bigger issue to me was the clubs failure to develop these guys. I'd say they flat out ruined Nino and Strome.

The guy sucked, no doubt. He had some hits and a lot of misses but worst ever in sports? Nah. As for Milbury, let us remember Tim Connolly (5), Mike Rupp (9), Rick DiPietro (1 with Luongo on board), JP DuMont (3), ...there was some ugly stuff going on there too, not to mention his mid 1st rd picks.

Defending Snow is certainly not on my list of desirable to-do's
He had five total top five picks I believe:
1st overall John Tavares (I wanted Hedman,)
5th overall" Ryan Strome
5th Nino Niedereeiter
4th Griffin Reinhart
5th Michael DalColle
I will say that at the time Griffin was a very highly regarded prospect that many saw as a franchise dman. Both Nino and Strome were also highly touted. Dal Colle was the big head-scratcher to me. The bigger issue to me was the clubs failure to develop these guys. I'd say they flat out ruined Nino and Strome.

The guy sucked, no doubt. He had some hits and a lot of misses but worst ever in sports? Nah. As for Milbury, let us remember Tim Connolly (5), Mike Rupp (9), Rick DiPietro (1 with Luongo on board), JP DuMont (3), ...there was some ugly stuff going on there too, not to mention his mid 1st rd picks.
- keaner17

Also, while the previous owners were cheapskates, Wang arrived in the middle of Milbury's tenure, and opened his wallet and told Milbury to build him a winner. Milbury then traded Chara and a first (became Spezza) and another guy (Muckalt) for the rights to Yashin whom he signed for $90 million, a small fortune back then. He traded constantly, and lost all but 2 that I can recall.

If we're being honest, I don't really understand your rationale about Cizikas/Barzal/Sorokin. For starters, Sorokin didn't have any sort of long-term deal in the KHL when he was drafted that I'm aware of. Not one that would have kept him there past around the time the Isles would've liked to bring him over. That extension came later.

I don't see what Sweeney passing on Barzal 3x has to do with making Snow look bad. It makes Sweeney look bad, yeah. But I don't see how the Bruins (and several other teams) passing on Barzal somehow becomes a knock on Snow.

I also don't understand the Cizikas one. There was some uncertainty as to what Cizikas' legal status was and what the future held for him. He fell a little further than expected and Snow took a risk on him.

You didn't mention Lee, who'd have gone a few rounds higher if there wasn't uncertainty about whether he'd commit to football or hockey. Another one Snow too a risk on that paid off big time.

I don't think there was a single person on earth that did anything other than criticize Snow for getting Clutterbuck for Nino.

How does Pelech "becoming a pleasant surprise" reflect poorly on Snow? He made a good pick in the 3rd round that panned out.

None of this is a defense of Snow either, guy was a clown and that was obvious. But I'm also not about to discredit the good things that he did do. Keaner is right, his draft record was so-so. Top 5 picks were pretty bad, but he did a lot of good outside of that.
- eichiefs9

If I remember correctly there was absolute uncertainty about Sorokin being able to come over to the NHL as seen by his draft year in 2014 and first entry level contract being 5 or 6 years later. My point in bringing him up along with Barzal and Cizikas, is that Snow got lucky with each of them, having every GM passing on them, and then taking a flyer in a 3rd or 4th round. 2014 the isles drafted Sorokin in the 3rd round, but had Dal Colle at 5 overall, and Ho Sang at 28th overall. I dont consider that finding a diamond in the rough, as he failed on his 2 first round picks.

As for Barzal, yes Sweeney messed up, but had he not been inept, Snowjob wouldnt have landed on pass go and collected $200......he got lucky with Barzal.

The Cizikas scenario was a lot like the Ho Sang or Kirill scenario's in that nobody wanted them for whatever reason (in Cizikas' case it was the legal trouble), but Snow took a risk on them. A few panned out, but overall, i dont think Snows model of reinventing the wheel has been successful. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. I think there's a reason why he's not been picked up by any team in any facet of management, be it GM, Assistant GM, or Scout.
I guess my point in each specific player mentioned is that all of them were hit or miss late round picks. A good team of scouts find a late round picks once in a while, but the misses on ALL TOP 5 picks is simply inexusable. I dont give Snow credit for some of the D drafted, as I believe Kenny Morrow played a role in that area i judge him by his inability to rebuild through the draft with a litany of top 5 picks. If you're not sure on a player, trade that top 5 pick in bring in a serviceable NHLer. How can anyone fail at 5 top 5 picks? (Honorable mention Kieffer Bellows)

Defending Snow is certainly not on my list of desirable to-do's
He had five total top five picks I believe:
1st overall John Tavares (I wanted Hedman,)
5th overall" Ryan Strome
5th Nino Niedereeiter
4th Griffin Reinhart
5th Michael DalColle
I will say that at the time Griffin was a very highly regarded prospect that many saw as a franchise dman. Both Nino and Strome were also highly touted. Dal Colle was the big head-scratcher to me. The bigger issue to me was the clubs failure to develop these guys. I'd say they flat out ruined Nino and Strome.

The guy sucked, no doubt. He had some hits and a lot of misses but worst ever in sports? Nah. As for Milbury, let us remember Tim Connolly (5), Mike Rupp (9), Rick DiPietro (1 with Luongo on board), JP DuMont (3), ...there was some ugly stuff going on there too, not to mention his mid 1st rd picks.
- keaner17

Im not defending Milbury, but he was basically told to sell. Im not defending any of his awful moves, but Snows top 5 draft picks were ALL FAILURES. How's that even possible in the national league??

Snow's problem was he always thought he was the smartest guy in the room and went out of his way to try and prove it. Picks like HoSang and the Kirill's way above where they were picked were all intended to feed his giant ego and turned out to be total wastes. I'd love to see a list of guys picked right after them that became consistent NHL contributors.

Snow's problem was he always thought he was the smartest guy in the room and went out of his way to try and prove it. Picks like HoSang and the Kirill's way above where they were picked were all intended to feed his giant ego and turned out to be total wastes. I'd love to see a list of guys picked right after them that became consistent NHL contributors.
- PeteM

See every pick after the isles 5th overall from 2008-2014, and see what could have been. Its not even debatable how inept the guy was......numbers never lie. None of his first round picks from 2009-2014 are on the team, and some arent in the NHL in any capacity.

Romanov out Bolduc in

Im not defending Milbury, but he was basically told to sell. Im not defending any of his awful moves, but Snows top 5 draft picks were ALL FAILURES. How's that even possible in the national league??
- kindlyrick

How were they all failures if three of the five are still in the NHL today?
Nino developed into a 25-30goal guy. Tavares may have left but set numerous franchise records and was the face of the franchise for years. Strome turned into a serviceable player.

How were they all failures if three of the five are still in the NHL today?
Nino developed into a 25-30goal guy. Tavares may have left but set numerous franchise records and was the face of the franchise for years. Strome turned into a serviceable player.
- keaner17

Failure in the sense that they were not part of this organization future for long. Failure of the islanders to draft, develop and keep first rounders from the rebuild beginning in 2008

Very sloppy start.

But, I’ll take the gosl. Nice Bolduc.

But, I’ll take the gosl. Nice Bolduc.
- streaks

Just get it through

Failure in the sense that they were not part of this organization future for long. Failure of the islanders to draft, develop and keep first rounders from the rebuild beginning in 2008
- kindlyrick

You're reaching lol

Really like Bolduc's game.

You're reaching lol
- keaner17

Maybe but can you name another franchise who’s “lost” as many first rounders in 14 years?

Maybe but can you name another franchise who’s “lost” as many first rounders in 14 years?
- kindlyrick

Probably, yes. But I'm watching the game.

Probably, yes. But I'm watching the game.
- keaner17

Really like Bolduc's game.
- keaner17

Small small sample but skates well and seems poised at this speed.