Context is important, Dan. 5 years younger, ELC deal, played well in recent history.
- TheSabresTaco

So you want another Comrie? Cause hes worked out real well

the thing you aren't factoring is swayman will cost something of value and Gibson most likely will not. Bargain bin baby
- SabresFaninIndiana

I actually think Ana expects a very good package for him tbh.

I think at this point a Horvat signing or trade is a pipe dream.
- TheSabresTaco

Maybe
But he’s still a worthwhile guy to target

I actually think Ana expects a very good package for him tbh.
- SDSabre

The longer they wait the less they get.

Unless they make it a bidding war... but who else could afford that contract...

Now if they eat some celery they could get a good package

Maybe
But he’s still a worthwhile guy to target
- jdfitz77

Cant pay 6 mill to a goalie but we would want Horvat at 8+ to play 3C....

Perhaps, and perhaps not as far as Tage as a benchmark of some sorts. We've seen all kinds of players take discounts to help the team, as long as they still get halfway to 100M dollars (Crosby 8.5, Stamkos 8.5, Draisatl 8.5). Usually happens when the team is on an upswing and staying with their current squad. It's really all up to the player and what they value. Cozens seems like that kind of guy, although don't actually know as I'm not in the room. Not for nothing, but the bigger the contract to Tage, the more he may feel he has to live up to it, which may not be a good thing.

There are also some comparable that aren't Tage recently signed (varying degrees of production of course) that put him in the 7-9 range: Hischier 7.25, Stutzle 8.35, Norris 7.95, Hughes 8, Brady Tkachuk 8.2, Suzuki 7.8. It's not just Tage, there's precedent there for the Sabres to be closer to 7.5-8 than 9 even with a 30-50-80 type year.
- SDSabre

At a quick glance, food for thought on the 3 examples you shared regarding players taking a discount when they signed:

Crosby - 14.5% of the cap limit (that deal signed last offseason would be an AAV of $11.9M)
Stamkos - 11.64% ($9.6M AAV)
Draisaitl - 11.33% ($9.34M AAV)

Part of the reason those deals look like discounts in hindsight is due to the lower cap limit at the time those deals were signed.

The cap limit being stagnate helps the Sabres.

If the escrow is fully paid off and the cap limit rises noticeably this offseason, the price of poker goes up.

Did any other of the Cozens comparables produce a 30 goal 80 point season before signing their deals?

Contracts are frequently about timing and the cap limit.

Panthers road trip ended with a whimper in Winnipeg the other night. They left -16F Winnipeg and landed in 76F ft lauderdale.
I know there’s the flight time at whatever temp the plane’s cabin is kept at, but a 90 degree temperature swing has to be some kind of shock to the body. LoL, Although not as much as if going they were flying the other way

Perhaps, and perhaps not as far as Tage as a benchmark of some sorts. We've seen all kinds of players take discounts to help the team, as long as they still get halfway to 100M dollars (Crosby 8.5, Stamkos 8.5, Draisatl 8.5). Usually happens when the team is on an upswing and staying with their current squad. It's really all up to the player and what they value. Cozens seems like that kind of guy, although don't actually know as I'm not in the room. Not for nothing, but the bigger the contract to Tage, the more he may feel he has to live up to it, which may not be a good thing.

There are also some comparable that aren't Tage recently signed (varying degrees of production of course) that put him in the 7-9 range: Hischier 7.25, Stutzle 8.35, Norris 7.95, Hughes 8, Brady Tkachuk 8.2, Suzuki 7.8. It's not just Tage, there's precedent there for the Sabres to be closer to 7.5-8 than 9 even with a 30-50-80 type year.
- SDSabre

Is Dahlin part of the Tage contract limitation, or is he exempt due to the position he plays?

I actually think Ana expects a very good package for him tbh.
- SDSabre

then there is no way we trade for him

Panthers road trip ended with a whimper in Winnipeg the other night. They left -16F Winnipeg and landed in 76F ft lauderdale.
I know there’s the flight time at whatever temp the plane’s cabin is kept at, but a 90 degree temperature swing has to be some kind of shock to the body. LoL, Although not as much as if going they were flying the other way
- Ratsreign

I'd be sick as soon as i got off the plane.

Cant pay 6 mill to a goalie but we would want Horvat at 8+ to play 3C....
- DirtyDan

Where EXACTLY did i say ANYTHING about not being able to pay a goalie??

Jfc

Context is important, Dan.

Comrie's contract is 3 years shorter and 4x cheaper and.. well.. he's here.
- TheSabresTaco

Dirty D = doesn't understand

Dirty D = doesn't understand
- Boss34

Maybe
But he’s still a worthwhile guy to target
- jdfitz77

Horvat is a waste of ammo. Look at the leafs. No matter how good their offense is they still lose in the playoffs.

This team still needs 2 quality defenders and one being top 4.

Horvat is a waste of ammo. Look at the leafs. No matter how good their offense is they still lose in the playoffs.

This team still needs 2 quality defenders and one being top 4.
- sabresfan69

Defense wins Chips... and boy do we not play it well

Defense wins Chips... and boy do we not play it well
- DirtyDan

We can hide our goaltending problems with Andserson and Comrie when he comes back if we upgrade the defense.

Upgrade the defense and see where we are at the trade deadline.

How about we work on the team in front of the Goalie's. Until said goalie savior comes let's try and get better in front of what we have. Might actually work.

Horvat is a waste of ammo. Look at the leafs. No matter how good their offense is they still lose in the playoffs.

This team still needs 2 quality defenders and one being top 4.
- sabresfan69

I wouldn’t target Horvat JUST for the offense though
He’s actually a good 2way player who can go toe to toe with other teams top lines- and be productive

He’s also one of the best faceoff guys in the league


We could use a Center who can provide offense,
AND play defense
He’d be a great addition

And i keep hearing about us having a good top6,
but wouldn’t it be nice to have a good top9 ??

At a quick glance, food for thought on the 3 examples you shared regarding players taking a discount when they signed:

Crosby - 14.5% of the cap limit (that deal signed last offseason would be an AAV of $11.9M)
Stamkos - 11.64% ($9.6M AAV)
Draisaitl - 11.33% ($9.34M AAV)

Part of the reason those deals look like discounts in hindsight is due to the lower cap limit at the time those deals were signed.

The cap limit being stagnate helps the Sabres.

If the escrow is fully paid off and the cap limit rises noticeably this offseason, the price of poker goes up.

Did any other of the Cozens comparables produce a 30 goal 80 point season before signing their deals?

Contracts are frequently about timing and the cap limit.
- kingcong39

Definitely good points on the older guys. As far as the younger ones go, two of the 5 I mentioned had the 30 goal 50 assist (at least pacing) and those were Stutzle and Hughes (Hughes was different as his was signed mid season as he was blowing up vs most others being in the offseason variety). Either way, if he does put up the 30-50-80 I would think an 8x8 would be a no brainer for the org if he'd sign, just judging on other factors. Norris is also different as he's less of a playmaker and more of just a straight scorer. He was pacing 44 goals before he signed his. Hischier I feel was given due to "leadership" which that'll probably never get met based upon just production. Suzuki's was in the the classic ROR 20 G 40A for 60 P camp. So you're kinda right in that he could get more if he wanted based upon those comps IF he does put up those numbers. If he comes down to 25 - 55 for 70, idk what it would be. Either way, I still think bridging him isn't the right move.

And an aside on the thinking that these deals look like discounts only because they were signed with a lower cap. This is correct, but they are also forecasting out that the cap will rise in the future based upon a variety of factors. The teams are, the players are, the agents are. While yes, they look like discounts only because the cap rose, I would like to think that some thought of that was taken into account. For example, Jamie Benn got 1M more per year than Stamkos. At the time of both signings, both were great players, but I would think that if a poll were taken then, Stamkos would have been valued higher and that would still hold today. So there is some discount baked in there, and another component is those 3 are/were top 10 players when signing? I love Cozens but even with a 30-50-80 year that won't put him in that stratosphere.

8 years at $8M per as a baseline.

Are you comfortable with that deal for Cozens?
- kingcong39

I'd try 7 x 7 first. See if he'll sign what Tage did, and tell him the saved money will be used to resign Dahlin long term

Definitely good points on the older guys. As far as the younger ones go, two of the 5 I mentioned had the 30 goal 50 assist (at least pacing) and those were Stutzle and Hughes (Hughes was different as his was signed mid season as he was blowing up vs most others being in the offseason variety). Either way, if he does put up the 30-50-80 I would think an 8x8 would be a no brainer for the org if he'd sign, just judging on other factors. Norris is also different as he's less of a playmaker and more of just a straight scorer. He was pacing 44 goals before he signed his. Hischier I feel was given due to "leadership" which that'll probably never get met based upon just production. Suzuki's was in the the classic ROR 20 G 40A for 60 P camp. So you're kinda right in that he could get more if he wanted based upon those comps IF he does put up those numbers. If he comes down to 25 - 55 for 70, idk what it would be. Either way, I still think bridging him isn't the right move.
- SDSabre

I would want a long term deal too, instead of a bridge deal, but I wouldn't have an expectation of Cozens to take a Tage deal.

I'd try 7 x 7 first. See if he'll sign what Tage did, and tell him the saved money will be used to resign Dahlin long term
- lacaprup

Sure on the above, but I would be fully prepared to have to go above and beyond that deal.

I wouldn’t target Horvat JUST for the offense though
He’s actually a good 2way player who can go toe to toe with other teams top lines- and be productive

He’s also one of the best faceoff guys in the league


We could use a Center who can provide offense,
AND play defense
He’d be a great addition

And i keep hearing about us having a good top6,
but wouldn’t it be nice to have a good top9 ??
- jdfitz77

I get that, faceoffs is a huge issue on this team. Horvat will be expensive, probably a bidding war at the deadline that includes a 2023 1st.

Look for a cheaper option for faceoffs and trade for defense.

I would want a long term deal too, instead of a bridge deal, but I wouldn't have an expectation of Cozens to take a Tage deal.
- kingcong39

I made a very long winded change about the value of contracts being discounts now vs when signed as well. Jist of it is while I agree when the contract is signed varies, the forecast of the cap rising is also a factor when looking at deals

I get that, faceoffs is a huge issue on this team. Horvat will be expensive, probably a bidding war at the deadline that includes a 2023 1st.

Look for a cheaper option for faceoffs and trade for defense.
- sabresfan69

I think we need forwards who are good defensively as well

And of course, the price would have to be right for the trade- including the extension