Question for Bill/ anyone else.

Was reading about Ashbee as I am not all that familiar with why his number is retired by the team. Looks like he received a bad eye injury in 74 playoffs that caused him to retire. He then passed from cancer after serving as an assistant.

Did the team chose to honour him for making such a sacrifice for the team or as a result of his untimely passing?

This is absolutely ludicrous. Almost don't know where to start.

Recchi won the Bobby Clarke Trophy three times (two during his second stint). Still holds the Flyers single season point record and is one of only three members of the 50 goal/100 point club (along with Rick MacLeish and Bill Barber).

Rick Tocchet had a pair of 40-goal seasons as a Flyer. A prototype power forward. A self-made success in the NHL through hard work after being a 6th round pick and starting as a botton six forward his first couple years. Made himself into an NHL All-Star. A leadership player as he matured.

If winning the Cup is a prerequisite for a team HHOF, then the Canucks HOF would have exactly zero inductees, the Leafs HOF would have no one who played there in the last 54 years and the Rangers HOF would have no one who played there after 1940 except for members of the 1993-94 team. Thaf standard would exclude Rod Gilbert l, Brad Park and Henrik Lundqvist. The Kings couldn't honor Gretzky since he never won another Cup after leaving Edmonton

Reggie Leach didn't play his whole career as a Flyer. Also played for Boston, the Seals, and Detroit.

Shall we continue?
- bmeltzer

Damn! Well said Bill. Recchi's 627 career points and still standing franchise record for points in a season should be enough. Those 627 points are over 40% (and the most he had with any one team) of his 1,500 career total in a HOF career. I don't get some on here.

You changed your standard from having to play entirely for the Flyers to now being subjectively a player of a fictitious standard when playing for another team. Yet you state Bill's comment was disingenuous? I'd quit while your ahead if I was you.
- MJL

All I stated was that the threshold should be set high to make the Flyers HoF, and somehow you disagree with this? Surely I'm not surprised! I never stated the threshold was that you had to play your entire career as a Flyer, you stated that. I just stated it was disrespectful to players like Clarke and Barber who did play their entire careers with the Flyers and actually won something, that's all. Now if you think like Meltzer that any player that scores 40 goals or wins some little team award should get into the HoF, so be it, but I don't agree.

I think its crystal clear what I am talking about, I do not believe NHL journeymen like Tocchet and Recchi should make the HoF. Its my opinion, nothing more. All the players you listed above are deserving IMO, for one reason or another, some more so than others. Its just like every sports HoF, you lower the bar a little bit each time and before you know, marginal players are making the entire thing meaningless!
- jd250

Tocchet and Recchi NHL journeymen? Hysterical.

All of the players I listed did not spend their entire career with the Flyers nor did they win anything as Flyers. You claimed the Flyers should not START electing players like that to the Flyers Hall of Fame. The bar is not being lowered. Your opinion is flat out absurd.

Rod Brind'Amour, Eric Desjardins, Ron Hextall, Mark Howe, Tim Kerr, John LeClair, Eric Lindros, Dave Poulin and Brian Propp are all in the Flyers Hall of Fame.

In summation, what are you talking about?

- MJL

The Tocchet explanation is pretty weak, should be a hard no for him.

I think they all should be in the H o F, just do it chronologically starting with Lou.
- Jkrgoflyers

I agree.

All I stated was that the threshold should be set high to make the Flyers HoF, and somehow you disagree with this? Surely I'm not surprised! I never stated the threshold was that you had to play your entire career as a Flyer, you stated that. I just stated it was disrespectful to players like Clarke and Barber who did play their entire careers with the Flyers and actually won something, that's all. Now if you think like Meltzer that any player that scores 40 goals or wins some little team award should get into the HoF, so be it, but I don't agree.
- jd250

As normal, you have no idea what you posted. Here is what you posted on the previous page of the thread

"Again, I think it is disrespectful to current Flyers Hall of Famers like Clarke, Barber and Leach, who played their entire careers with the Flyers and actually won something, to start inducting part time Flyers that won nothing"

The Tocchet explanation is pretty weak, should be a hard no for him.
- ClaudeFather

Tocchet belongs in in my opinion

Bill Meltzer: Six Finalists Named for Flyers Hall of Fame; Remembering McCrimmon & Dailey
- bmeltzer

fighters wing hall of fame...

Tocchet belongs in in my opinion
- MJL

Does Gagne in your opinion?

Sure, be happy to. So this is what the Flyers HoF has come to, if you score 40 goals in a season for the Flyers your in??? Come on man, now who sounds ludicrous?

Mark Recchi played parts of 10 season with the Flyers, and only 4 of them do I consider good to great years. Is that enough to put him the Flyers HoF? And honestly I could care less about winning the "Bobby Clarke" award, what are we going to do now, start inducting anyone who won team awards too? Were does it stop?

And about Rick Tocchet, he played 11 years with the Flyers, but again only 4 of those years would I consider to be good to great years. This is enough to put him in the HoF too?? After he was traded in 91' his best career year was in Pittsburgh were he actually won something meaningful, a Cup!

Simon Gagne is to me a borderline candidate but one I wouldn't mind if he got in. He had several good seasons with the Flyers and at least had a great & memorable moment as a Flyer when he scored the go-ahead goal late against the Bruins in game 7 to complete the comeback! That is HoF worthy IMO. What memorable moment does Recchi or Tocchet have with the Flyers actually winning something again??

And your comment about Leach is disingenuous, because he was nothing outside of the Flyers, before and after his primary years with the team, when he was one of the most feared right wings in the league and broke playoff points records on the way to winning 2 Cups and competing for 2 more and coming up short. Sorry, there is no comparison here IMO!

You start watering down the HoF, it means nothing and it becomes nothing more than theatre, and if that is what you want, you can have it!
- jd250

How many monster seasons did Reggie Leach have? Three. He had plenty of decent ones but three where he was stellar. Also had the benefit of two HHHOF linemates. (Not a knock on Reggie).

Barry Ashbee is in the FHOF. Does he not belong? Dave Poulin? Dave Schultz? Joe Watson? Gary Dornhoefer?

The only thing I will say about the Flyers HOF is that not every year should yield an entry. I believe you need to earn the honor. That said, Lou and Recchi should be no doubters. Holmgren and Gagne are probables. Tocchet was my first favorite Flyer just not sure he played long enough here. Bob Kelly is tough for me. I really am not sure about him.

Does Gagne in your opinion?
- rayc16

Yes

Question for Bill/ anyone else.

Was reading about Ashbee as I am not all that familiar with why his number is retired by the team. Looks like he received a bad eye injury in 74 playoffs that caused him to retire. He then passed from cancer after serving as an assistant.

Did the team chose to honour him for making such a sacrifice for the team or as a result of his untimely passing?
- Hextall271

https://www.nhl.com/flyers/alumni/ashbee

https://www.nhl.com/flyers/alumni/ashbee
- bmeltzer

Thanks Bill. I actually found that after posting, and it helps a lot.

As normal, you have no idea what you posted. Here is what you posted on the previous page of the thread

"Again, I think it is disrespectful to current Flyers Hall of Famers like Clarke, Barber and Leach, who played their entire careers with the Flyers and actually won something, to start inducting part time Flyers that won nothing"
- MJL

Yes thank you! Were did I state the threshold was you had to play your entire career with the Flyers???? I never defined a threshold, other than stating it should be set very high. As typical with you, you read into things that are not really there!

All I stated was that the threshold should be set high to make the Flyers HoF, and somehow you disagree with this? Surely I'm not surprised! I never stated the threshold was that you had to play your entire career as a Flyer, you stated that. I just stated it was disrespectful to players like Clarke and Barber who did play their entire careers with the Flyers and actually won something, that's all. Now if you think like Meltzer that any player that scores 40 goals or wins some little team award should get into the HoF, so be it, but I don't agree.
- jd250

Little team award like team MVP... three times?

The only thing I will say about the Flyers HOF is that not every year should yield an entry. I believe you need to earn the honor. That said, Lou and Recchi should be no doubters. Holmgren and Gagne are probables. Tocchet was my first favorite Flyer just not sure he played long enough here. Bob Kelly is tough for me. I really am not sure about him.
- mickel25

Well said, now this is at least a thoughtful post! We may not agree about Recchi, but I can be swayed into it. What I like the most is when you state there should not be an inductee every single year, that you actually have to earn the honor. This is so true! this is what gets most HoFs into trouble, they care more about the ceremony every year than what it means!

Little team award like team MVP... three times?
- bmeltzer

A Flyers MVP or NHL MVP? I think it makes a difference don't you?

A Flyers MVP or NHL MVP? I think it makes a difference don't you?
- jd250

Not for the team HOF, which is about what someone brought to the team over his career. For the Hockey Hall of Fame, absolutely.

I think its crystal clear what I am talking about, I do not believe NHL journeymen like Tocchet and Recchi should make the HoF. Its my opinion, nothing more. All the players you listed above are deserving IMO, for one reason or another, some more so than others. Its just like every sports HoF, you lower the bar a little bit each time and before you know, marginal players are making the entire thing meaningless!
- jd250

Im the biggest Recchi hater out there but calling him a journeyman is ridiculous

Team HOF...an honor given to people who have made a major impact in the organization in one or multiple roles.

Only on here can we have pages of arguments over that.

How many monster seasons did Reggie Leach have? Three. He had plenty of decent ones but three where he was stellar. Also had the benefit of two HHHOF linemates. (Not a knock on Reggie).

Barry Ashbee is in the FHOF. Does he not belong? Dave Poulin? Dave Schultz? Joe Watson? Gary Dornhoefer?
- bmeltzer

Ashbee is sentimental and a special case, so I will not comment about him. But IMO, Poulin - I love him but No, Joe Watson - No, Dornhoefer ... its close but I say No. Shultz - Yes because he was the symbol of the 70s Flyers Broad Street Bullies. I guess you can make a case for Leach not being in the HoF, but winning 2 Cups and breaking the playoff scoring record is hard to ignore! Recchi was a great player, but he was good for a lot of teams, not just the Flyers, and won 3 cups with 3 different teams, and I think this hurts his case as a Flyers HoFer IMO.

Ashbee is sentimental and a special case, so I will not comment about him. But IMO, Poulin - I love him but No, Joe Watson - No, Dornhoefer ... its close but I say No. Shultz - Yes because he was the symbol of the 70s Flyers Broad Street Bullies. I guess you can make a case for Leach not being in the HoF, but winning 2 Cups and breaking the playoff scoring record is hard to ignore! Recchi was a great player, but he was good for a lot of teams, not just the Flyers, and won 3 cups with 3 different teams, and I think this hurts his case as a Flyers HoFer IMO.
- jd250

pelle eklund?

Im the biggest Recchi hater out there but calling him a journeyman is ridiculous
- THE BLACK HAND

Recchi played for 7 teams over his 22 year career, winning cups with Boston, Carolina and Pittsburgh. What is your definition of NHL journeyman? If Recchi is not that, he is pretty close to it.