Francis made it sound like he was prepared to fully leverage his cap space advantage in trades and UFAs. A lot of teams that are close to the cap (including the Flyers) will end up rummaging through the leftovers.
- Tomahawk

I think Francis could cost teams money by driving up the FA price.

Why is anyone entertaining this Coots eichel debate. We should have absolutely zero interest in giving up a haul to trade for a guy that is about to have neck surgery. Coots is the better player right now, could Eichel end up being the better player? Maybe.

People should care immensely. Either

1) the team lied about the concussions

2) the doctors lied or were incompetent in diagnosis of concussions and fed team false info

Either way it’s a major issue
- Stayin alive

Did I miss something. Has it been confirmed that it was a concussion and not migraines?

As I remember it, what they said was that he missed the season due to a migraine disorder and not a concussion. Apparently that was what doctors determined (for what it's worth). I guess the point of stating that is to protect themselves from being accused of not treating his concussions properly? I don't think the Flyers did anything wrong exactly. I'm guessing that they followed all NHL protocols regarding concussion.
- Dkos

Yeah I don’t recall the team ever saying he had concussion. I do recall fletch saying multiple times he didn’t sustain concussion. I find it difficult to follow concussion protocol if not admitting there’s a concussion. Maybe they were behind closed doors and just didn’t want to publicly admit it. Idk. In such a serious matter I’d rather not be lied to. No one would hold it against the team or player that he had concussion per say. Unless he was playing or allowed to play with concussion symptoms before the clutterbuck hit which then they’d be breaking the concussion protocol. Being that they likely lied more than likely something was missed and nopa probably shouldn’t have been playing. Could be nopa fault too as young players sometimes don’t report injuries to team. At the end of the day with the length of the time missed to maintain a lie or truth about situation really blows and makes me question any medical on any player

Why is anyone entertaining this Coots eichel debate. We should have absolutely zero interest in giving up a haul to trade for a guy that is about to have neck surgery. Coots is the better player right now, could Eichel end up being the better player? Maybe.
- ClaudeFather

He’s not having neck surgery. It was a ploy to get out of bumbalo. Look at his press conference. Players do this poop all the time when trying to force a trade. Add in fake virus season. Soccer coach. Hall sucking moose balls in bumbalo. Pretty clear picture here. I mean yes do due diligence and check the “injury” out of course

Did I miss something. Has it been confirmed that it was a concussion and not migraines?
- peesinwind

Not migraine part, no, not ruled out.

conkie part: player's own words. Seems to suggest that was primary reason.

Hello2050 posted this interview of NoPa:

https://www.reviewjournal...h-golden-knights-2402907/

Yeah I don’t recall the team ever saying he had concussion. I do recall fletch saying multiple times he didn’t sustain concussion. I find it difficult to follow concussion protocol if not admitting there’s a concussion. Maybe they were behind closed doors and just didn’t want to publicly admit it. Idk. In such a serious matter I’d rather not be lied to. No one would hold it against the team or player that he had concussion per say. Unless he was playing or allowed to play with concussion symptoms before the clutterbuck hit which then they’d be breaking the concussion protocol. Being that they likely lied more than likely something was missed and nopa probably shouldn’t have been playing. Could be nopa fault too as young players sometimes don’t report injuries to team. At the end of the day with the length of the time missed to maintain a lie or truth about situation really blows and makes me question any medical on any player
- Stayin alive

I'm not a dr, but is it possible he had migraines from the concussion. And the team wasn't lying saying he has migraine issues?

I'm not sure what the big deal is regarding this. Why didn't nashville come out and say ellis had a shattered knuckle? Because they didn't have to. Also, maybe it was the player that wanted it labelled as such.

Soooo I get the won’t trade coots for eichel and I know it wouldn’t happen because would have to give up more anyways. Those who say they’d take coots over eichel straight up well whatever not realistic trade anyways.

But what about this. This is more realistic I think.

To buf : couturier (and his pending contract)
To phi: reinhart ( 25 and looking for big contract)

I honestly think this is doable.

Reinhart just entering prime top line winger or could play center. Much younger to go with our youth.

Thoughts?

Soooo I get the won’t trade coots for eichel and I know it wouldn’t happen because would have to give up more anyways. Those who say they’d take coots over eichel straight up well whatever not realistic trade anyways.

But what about this. This is more realistic I think.

To buf : couturier (and his pending contract)
To phi: reinhart ( 25 and looking for big contract)

I honestly think this is doable.

Reinhart just entering prime top line winger or could play center. Much younger to go with our youth.

Thoughts?
- Stayin alive

Reinhart and what else?

But its not quite as innocuous as that. Concussions and migraines have different implications about style of play post-treatment. Migraines are unlikely to keep you out for so long in one stretch, and then let you return fully and completely after that. They are more likely to be a recurrent, chronic but intermittent condition.


Otoh, while exercise and contact can trigger migraines, they also don't have to. If a player is being remarkably skittish, especially in relation to past play (when migraines were already part of medical history), chances are high it is PCS.

Thus, there are implications of how the player is perceived by fans. If it is migraines, and treated, and controlled enough that he can play, they are less likely to be forgiving of his reluctance to forecheck, lay hits etc. Especially when they see it is apparently not recurring enough for him to take time off.

Then there are the moral implications. We are in a time when people are trying to highlight the bad effects of lasting head trauma. And the Flyers say it is migraines, which is a family condition, which in turn means it is genetical and thus not directly related to head trauma.

Honestly, I blame fans who buy the company line more than the Flyers organization.
- PT21

I don’t know what most of your response has to do with what I said. I’m not denying that concussions and migraines are serious and can be devastating. I just don’t think anyone from the Flyers ever denied Patrick had concussions and I think they did their best to get him the treatment and time off that he needed. Do I think his concussions caused his migraines? Well, I sure don’t think they made them any better.

Soooo I get the won’t trade coots for eichel and I know it wouldn’t happen because would have to give up more anyways. Those who say they’d take coots over eichel straight up well whatever not realistic trade anyways.

But what about this. This is more realistic I think.

To buf : couturier (and his pending contract)
To phi: reinhart ( 25 and looking for big contract)

I honestly think this is doable.

Reinhart just entering prime top line winger or could play center. Much younger to go with our youth.

Thoughts?
- Stayin alive

Generally I would not trade a top line center for a top line winger. Unless of course the winger is named Kane or Ovechkin

Did Farabee blow you away his first season in the nhl?
- hello it's me 2050

No, which is why I stated you need more time to evaluate what Kakko and LAF will be, which was exactly what I said about Farabee after his 1st season.

I'm not a dr, but is it possible he had migraines from the concussion. And the team wasn't lying saying he has migraine issues?

I'm not sure what the big deal is regarding this. Why didn't nashville come out and say ellis had a shattered knuckle? Because they didn't have to. Also, maybe it was the player that wanted it labelled as such.
- bradster

Whatever the case, I do think that not being on the same page as the player about how to convey the situation to the public is an issue in itself.

The shoulder, not really, knuckle thing just is irritating. You would think they could correct the reports after being eliminated from the playoffs. It’s like the old game of telephone…give short hints but by the time the story has traveled, passing from person to person, it became wildly different.

Not migraine part, no, not ruled out.

conkie part: player's own words. Seems to suggest that was primary reason.

Hello2050 posted this interview of NoPa:

https://www.reviewjournal...h-golden-knights-2402907/
- PT21

Thanks for the link people.

Yeah. I remember his concussion. I don’t remember the team hiding his head trauma issues. I think he even had issues some in Jr. With that but I could be wrong on that.

I recall his dr diagnosed it as a migraine disorder that he has battled before. I see nothing that has said anything different. Not sure reading between the lines is what NoPa was trying to get at.

Bill? I can't think of a player off the top of my head. Possibly not one.
- mickel25

The only person that comes to mind is Smyth. But he didn’t play for us.

So according to Ellis he did not injure his shoulder this year nor have surgery on it. He instead shattered the knuckle on his left hand, that is why he missed 20 games this past season. That paints a different picture about Ellis in the Flyers favor, doesn't it?

Not migraine part, no, not ruled out.

conkie part: player's own words. Seems to suggest that was primary reason.

Hello2050 posted this interview of NoPa:

https://www.reviewjournal...h-golden-knights-2402907/
- PT21

The only hesitation I had in including him in a trade. Now that he is gone he will develop….lol. Always our luck.

Thanks for the link people.

Yeah. I remember his concussion. I don’t remember the team hiding his head trauma issues. I think he even had issues some in Jr. With that but I could be wrong on that.

I recall his dr diagnosed it as a migraine disorder that he has battled before. I see nothing that has said anything different. Not sure reading between the lines is what NoPa was trying to get at.
- peesinwind

Players have a responsibility here too. I’m sure Patrick could find a doctor that will tell him his concussions are causing his migraine issue. The doctor will also recommend that he stop playing hockey. Pretty sure Patrick doesn’t want that

So according to Ellis he did not injure his shoulder this year nor have surgery on it. He instead shattered the knuckle on his left hand, that is why he missed 20 games this past season. That paints a different picture about Ellis in the Flyers favor, doesn't it?
- jd250

Wonder if that changes anyones minds that didn't like this trade to begin with? I

The only person that comes to mind is Smyth. But he didn’t play for us.
- Peter Richards

According to the intersnets no one else wore 94.

The only person that comes to mind is Smyth. But he didn’t play for us.
- Peter Richards

I don’t know what most of your response has to do with what I said. I’m not denying that concussions and migraines are serious and can be devastating. I just don’t think anyone from the Flyers ever denied Patrick had concussions and I think they did their best to get him the treatment and time off that he needed. Do I think his concussions caused his migraines? Well, I sure don’t think they made them any better.
- Dkos

Well ok then let me try phrasing the same things in more staccato fashion.

1. Flyers repeatedly said their doctors believe it is not a concussion. Here is 1 link
https://www.sportstalkphi...07/high-expectations.html

2. Flyers repeatedly alluded to his family history of migraines thus insinuating that the situation was not caused by injury (that is, it was not trauma-caused migraines).

https://www.nbcsports.com...-20-season-opening-roster

3. Flyers repeatedly referred to his ailment as "migraine disorder" without a single word about concussions.

If you believe under the circumstances, that the Flyers were neither dishonest, nor disengenuous, than I will, without rancor, just say we have different interpretations of the two words.

Reinhart and what else?
- bradster

Reinhart is a player who would change it up for the Flyers. I would not do Coots but I might work a TK package. Tk is locked up where Reinhart is a RFA and might want out.

ten pages of migraines vs concussion. Wow we need the expansion draft and entry draft to come soon

Reinhart and what else?
- bradster

Reinhardt and his whole prime as top line winger