Well I watched him underachieve for many years.
- Feds91Stammer

He was handed some pretty juicy rosters in Detroit...also.. those Canadian Olympic teams had a few good players at his disposal.

He did however go on a good unexpected run to the finals with the Ducks....but IMO that was more on Giguère than anyone else. He won the Conn Smythe on the losing cup team that year. He was in another world.

Imagine being annoyed by a blog on HockeyBuzz
- Feds91Stammer

hahaha

Imagine thinking this when our defense has gone through several periods of being an absolute tire fire under Martin and Gonch. Not only are they not defense whisperers, I'm not super positive they're good coaches.
- Victoro311

ThEy FiXeD sChUlTz

He was handed some pretty juicy rosters in Detroit...also.. those Canadian Olympic teams had a few good players at his disposal.

He did however go on a good unexpected run to the finals with the Ducks....but IMO that was more on Giguère than anyone else. He won the Conn Smythe on the losing cup team that year. He was in another world.
- MattStrat

Yeah I would consider him just as average as most of the other coaches.

Yeah I would consider him just as average as most of the other coaches.
- Feds91Stammer

My point is that pretty much any coach besides a very select few of truly good ones and truly bad ones are interchangeable. If you think Babs belongs in that category, I'm not gonna fight it.

My point is that pretty much any coach besides a very select few of truly good ones and truly bad ones are interchangeable. If you think Babs belongs in that category, I'm not gonna fight it.
- Victoro311

I think even the better ones have the same shortcomings of the average ones because they all submit to the hockey culture.

JR has ALWAYS been like this.

In Carolina he reacquired 5 guys through trades that he had previously traded away, 3 times within a year of losing them.

He also signed guys that had been on the team within the last five years as free agents at least twice. (Joe Corvo and Tim Gleason were both traded twice by the Hurricanes in a span of 3 years.)

Imagine thinking this when our defense has gone through several periods of being an absolute tire fire under Martin and Gonch. Not only are they not defense whisperers, I'm not super positive they're good coaches.
- Victoro311

BuT tHeY wOn StAnLeY CuPs B2B.

BuT tHeY wOn StAnLeY CuPs B2B.
- j.boyd919

Craig (frank)ing Adams has two Stanley Cup rings.

Aaron Ward has 3.

Craig (frank)ing Adams has two Stanley Cup rings.

Aaron Ward has 3.
- BINGO!

Kirk Maltby has 4

None of those guys “fix” defensemen. The idea that the Pens are these defensemen foxing coaches is ridiculous.
- j.boyd919

I don't think they just say "Hey go out there and let's see what happens" either. Their job is to put guys in positions to best utilize their talents. Teaching isn't done at the NHL level, it is done long before that.

Martin is the one making the decisions on defense more so that Gonchar. He draws up the game plan and has input on who the D are matched up against. Sullivan has final say but Martin has the more to say than Gonchar.

These decisions on the personal on defense are being discussed between Martin, Rutherford and Sullivan. And when it is coming to defense, Rutherford is listening to Martin and not Sullivan.

Now how do I know this? I don't, I just know how management works and thinks.

I don't think they just say "Hey go out there and let's see what happens" either. Their job is to put guys in positions to best utilize their talents. Teaching isn't done at the NHL level, it is done long before that.

Martin is the one making the decisions on defense more so that Gonchar. He draws up the game plan and has input on who the D are matched up against. Sullivan has final say but Martin has the more to say than Gonchar.

These decisions on the personal on defense are being discussed between Martin, Rutherford and Sullivan. And when it is coming to defense, Rutherford is listening to Martin and not Sullivan.

Now how do I know this? I don't, I just know how management works and thinks.
- Thunderbolt

Personnel decisions are going to be based more on what Sullivan thinks than Martin. Martin doesn't have much input on who he plays, he just gets to work out how he plays them

God will you stop crying and whining every article? F-ing annoying.
- VoiceofLange

Millenials

I think even the better ones have the same shortcomings of the average ones because they all submit to the hockey culture.
- Feds91Stammer

Yeah no one runs a meritocracy and that's across absolutely all sports. There's a human element to coaching that causes coaches to make faulty decisions based on emotional reactions to how certain players practice and their perceived effort levels. That's not going to change and its part of sports. But the coaches that stand out are the ones that are able to make even their bad personnel decisions effective and have them still be positive contributors on the ice/field/court whatever despite the fact that there's a better option on the bench.

I don't think they just say "Hey go out there and let's see what happens" either. Their job is to put guys in positions to best utilize their talents. Teaching isn't done at the NHL level, it is done long before that.

Martin is the one making the decisions on defense more so that Gonchar. He draws up the game plan and has input on who the D are matched up against. Sullivan has final say but Martin has the more to say than Gonchar.

These decisions on the personal on defense are being discussed between Martin, Rutherford and Sullivan. And when it is coming to defense, Rutherford is listening to Martin and not Sullivan.

Now how do I know this? I don't, I just know how management works and thinks.
- Thunderbolt

Point in favor of my theory that Martin isn't actually good.

I think one of the major factors that separate the good coaches from the bad is their ability to evaluate the roster in front of them, devise a system that fits their abilities, and get them to buy in.

Where Bylsma failed is taking a high-flying offensively-minded team and turned them into a dump-and-chase team. I feel that Sullivan has been heading down that road this year.

Personnel decisions are going to be based more on what Sullivan thinks than Martin. Martin doesn't have much input on who he plays, he just gets to work out how he plays them
- BINGO!

Sullivan makes the final decision on who dresses and who doesn't, yes. But you are underestimating how much influence Martin has.

As far as personal decisions you only have to look at how Reaves was handled and compare it to how Murray was handled and now Johnson. Also let's see how the signing of Gudbranson plays out.

Edit: Murray was with Bylsma but I think Martin was in the office management team. I may be wrong there but the point still stands.

I'm going to miss the whole first period and perhaps a bit of the second tonight. Not overly pleased about it.

: /

Sullivan makes the final decision on who dresses and who doesn't, yes. But you are underestimating how much influence Martin has.

As far as personal decisions you only have to look at how Reaves was handled and compare it to how Murray was handled and now Johnson. Also let's see how the signing of Gudbranson plays out.
- Thunderbolt

What's the implication of your second point? That Sullivan has control over the forwards and he's personally fine with yanking guys that are under preforming where as Martin and Bails control the defense and the goaltending and have a tendency of giving out a much longer rope? Cus I have always thought that our forwards under Sullivan have been much better handled than our defense. Goaltending you only have so many options, so hard to judge.

I'm going to miss the whole first period and perhaps a bit of the second tonight. Not overly pleased about it.

: /
- MattStrat

Guddy probably will too

Point in favor of my theory that Martin isn't actually good.
- Victoro311

Completely agree. I am still on the Sullivan is good train, but I have also came to realize that coaching staff needs to have multiple personalities, to fit with the players personalities. So it may have been Tochetts presence that made Sullivan seem great, to sort of fill in the cracks.

What's the implication of your second point? That Sullivan has control over the forwards and he's personally fine with yanking guys that are under preforming where as Martin and Bails control the defense and the goaltending and have a tendency of giving out a much longer rope? Cus I have always thought that our forwards under Sullivan have been much better handled than our defense. Goaltending you only have so many options, so hard to judge.
- Victoro311

Yes, Martin has complete control of the defense during the game. I do think that he and Sullivan confer on who gets paired and who plays with each line; before the start of the game, and that is where Sullivan has final say. But once the game starts it is all Martin.

Sullivan has complete control over who plays net and when to yank him.

You can get a good look a t-bone by sticking your head up a butcher’s ass, but wouldn’t you rather take the bull’s word for it?
- Rinosaur

Not here to stir poop, but this is the best line I have ever heard and I'm stealing it. Thanks!

You can get a good look a t-bone by sticking your head up a butcher’s ass, but wouldn’t you rather take the bull’s word for it?
- Rinosaur

I don't think that's how that quote goes

OH.. so you are simply speculating that he doesn't understand the CBA. Its possible he just tried to see if he could pull a fast one on the NHL? Or maybe it was simple mistake and since that doesn't come up very often just a small blunder on his part. Lets also not forget that there was another team involved who didn't know or realize this also.

And good job being objective when talking about his trade for a player that hasn't even suited up a game for the Guins. Gudbranson could be a good fit here and improve month after month like...oh idk... that other guy you love to bash.... whats his name??? Oh yea.. Jack Johnson.

Ryan it really is time you hand over the keys to the Penguins blog on this site. Your obsession with Advance stats and lack of any real understanding of the game makes you create conclusions about things you don;t like about the team.

The past two years has been nothing but hate from you in regards to the Pens. It is so tiresome.