JVR moving up about time Hack. Ghost and Prov still a pair?
- Landsbergfan

Easy ....you might not have Hak to kick around much longer.

The time has come for changes. Some around here might not like it, but the organization has decided to move on from the patient, only build for tomorrow approach. I’m not concerned that their going to blow it up or trade away all the young assets. Personally after listening to Hextall I think he was almost there anyways, but the new guy will obviously have a mandate to fix today’s issues.
I think it will be a very interesting next little while around here with some firings, some trades and maybe even some buyouts to debate...good times ahead.

- landros 2

Again to be fair, anyone can say "Almost", but end of the day that still means nothing was done.

"Yeah, boss the project is almost done...I just need a little bit of time."
"Ok, but the project was due last week"

Those would be a series of patient, prudent moves.

Didn't patience and prudence just get kicked out of the building?
- Tomahawk

was just about to say that

seriously tho as much as this isn't a popular opinion I agree with Hextall saying this wasn't go time yet. Snider and Holmgren said they were behind his plan of patience and for me personally I am disappointed the patience ran out despite the crap end results on the ice. I don't want to see the Flyers make moves in the order of what St. Louis has done where they thought they needed to push forward and moved 2 firsts for Schenn. Is Schenn a good player, of course. he helps you in the present. but was the team in a place where such a move was going to push them forward?

Its all a moot point anymore but I was in Hextall's corner and wanted to his vision thru. I preferred to fire the coach (yes that is on Hextall) first and see if another coach could right the ship.

To be fair, the AHL and NHL are way different leagues. Performance doesn't always transition. Scoring a lot in the A doesn't mean you can do that in the NHL, which I know you know this already. Most analysis is based off how it is done.
- Glak18

For sure, but coaching is a different animal. If you assume that the talent level at the AHL level is relatively equivalent from team to team (with a few outliers here and there) than a coach running a very successful PK in the AHL should be able to translate that at the NHL level.

Bill Meltzer: Flyers Gameday: 12/1/18 @ PIT
- bmeltzer

Today is the day they hit rock bottom



















Until Thursday

was just about to say that

seriously tho as much as this isn't a popular opinion I agree with Hextall saying this wasn't go time yet. Snider and Holmgren said they were behind his plan of patience and for me personally I am disappointed the patience ran out despite the crap end results on the ice. I don't want to see the Flyers make moves in the order of what St. Louis has done where they thought they needed to push forward and moved 2 firsts for Schenn. Is Schenn a good player, of course. he helps you in the present. but was the team in a place where such a move was going to push them forward?

Its all a moot point anymore but I was in Hextall's corner and wanted to his vision thru. I preferred to fire the coach (yes that is on Hextall) first and see if another coach could right the ship.
- nastyflyergirl

I am all for patience, but Hextall also admitted that the team was behind where he expected them to be. That is more telling than anything else. Why was the team behind course? That means Hextall failed at assessing the situation big time. Waiting a bit longer will never change that.

was just about to say that

seriously tho as much as this isn't a popular opinion I agree with Hextall saying this wasn't go time yet. Snider and Holmgren said they were behind his plan of patience and for me personally I am disappointed the patience ran out despite the crap end results on the ice. I don't want to see the Flyers make moves in the order of what St. Louis has done where they thought they needed to push forward and moved 2 firsts for Schenn. Is Schenn a good player, of course. he helps you in the present. but was the team in a place where such a move was going to push them forward?

Its all a moot point anymore but I was in Hextall's corner and wanted to his vision thru. I preferred to fire the coach (yes that is on Hextall) first and see if another coach could right the ship.
- nastyflyergirl

I honestly think Firing Hak would have saved his job. Hextall touched on the regression of some of the young guys this year. Hakstol, being the coach, Bares some responsibility for that , No ??

So if you're Homer/Scott, why fire the guy in November if you're gonna end up just trading vets for picks anyway and not making the PO's?

My suspicion is that they are looking for a silver bullet to turn this season around. Big trade to shake things up.

I also suspect that they'll look to extend Simmer. He's the Flyeriest Flyer on the team afterall.
- Tomahawk

really rather see them use that money to go after a Duchene, etc. I love what Simmonds brought to the Flyers and seeing him elsewhere will give me a twinge but he just hasn't been the same player to me. if the talk of 6 years is true they have to move on.

Why are the Phantoms getting it done on the ice consistently, while the Flyers are not? If coaching has little or nothing to do with it, than there are only 2 other possible reasons.

1. The players are just refusing to do as coached and making the same mistakes over and over again. Not really sure how this wouldn't reflect poorly on the coach, but we'll just agree to disagree I guess.

or

2. The players aren't good enough to get the job done on a consistent basis. If this is true, than the fault lies 100% with Ron Hextall as he failed to upgrade the PK with any significant player additions in both the offseason or the first 2 months of this season. If this is the case, it would certainly be a reason that would lead to him losing his job.

Saying the players just need to play better is an obvious and snarky answer. We all know that. How to get them to play better and to play better consistently is the real question and that absolutely involves coaching. If you don't think so, than you really don't have a grasp of how sports teams operate.
- BiggE

There is nothing snarky about saying the players just need to play better. I've looked at the replays extensively. I see the repeated mistakes. These are not mistakes that are made because the players aren't good enough. Couturier is widely regarded as a Selke level defensive forward. His defensive instincts are clearly there. He has made numerous mistakes on the PK. Mistakes that should never have been made. Same with Provorov and other players. If the players don't execute how they're coached, it's not going to matter. It's painfully obvious that the way the Flyers often play on the PK is not how they're coached to play.
I've said it repeatedly, I don't disagree with anyone who wants to see a coaching change for the PK. It is a logical suggestion that is merited. I just know that even with that, the players have to get better. I also don't see one player making a major difference. Maybe if that player was a dominant defenseman but I don't see that being added in a trade.

For sure, but coaching is a different animal. If you assume that the talent level at the AHL level is relatively equivalent from team to team (with a few outliers here and there) than a coach running a very successful PK in the AHL should be able to translate that at the NHL level.
- BiggE

In relative terms that makes sense, but I don't think that is still plausible.

Puck movement is faster in the NHL (at least on teams not named the Flyers), but the players are also faster. Does that really mean the NHL players still have the same amount of time to get into position or make a play as an AHL player?

I am all for patience, but Hextall also admitted that the team was behind where he expected them to be. That is more telling than anything else. Why was the team behind course? That means Hextall failed at assessing the situation big time. Waiting a bit longer will never change that.
- Glak18

Do you think that Hextall failed to foresee the struggles of Provorov and Gostisbehere? Did he fail to recognize that Patrick wasn't going to take the next step in his evolution as a player to this point of the season?

I am all for patience, but Hextall also admitted that the team was behind where he expected them to be. That is more telling than anything else. Why was the team behind course? That means Hextall failed at assessing the situation big time. Waiting a bit longer will never change that.
- Glak18

well I believe, and this is my opinion, they were behind where he thought they would be because the young players haven't quite taken enough steps. We all scream PLAY THE KIDS, PLAY THE KIDS. Can't have it both ways. And yes, I know some people were in the corner of moving some younger players for immediate help.

In relative terms that makes sense, but I don't think that is still plausible.

Puck movement is faster in the NHL (at least on teams not named the Flyers), but the players are also faster. Does that really mean the NHL players still have the same amount of time to get into position or make a play as an AHL player?
- Glak18

Understood, I'm just suggesting that a successful coach can make his system work at a higher level. Many AHL coaches have gone on to have success at the NHL level which would seem to back my point.

Realistically the Flyers may have to lean more on Giroux, Couturier and Provorov on the PK to get it done. If those guys each play about a minute of the 2 min kill, things might improve. Not sure it’s sustainable for the rest of the season. Of course the goalie needs to not let in soft goals too.

If they really wanted to improve I’d just play G/Couts, Raffl/Laughton as the main forward pairs and get Provy out on D as much as possible. They need another reliable shut down defenseman who could clear pucks once they got possession of it back on the PK. I’ve lost all confidence in the rest of the D on PK at this point.

really rather see them use that money to go after a Duchene, etc. I love what Simmonds brought to the Flyers and seeing him elsewhere will give me a twinge but he just hasn't been the same player to me. if the talk of 6 years is true they have to move on.
- nastyflyergirl

There was a time when no one could imagine they would move on from Richards and it happened. We're at the same point with Wayne.

Understood, I'm just suggesting that a successful coach can make his system work at a higher level. Many AHL coaches have gone on to have success at the NHL level which would seem to back my point.
- BiggE

No coach can make any system work without the players getting it done on the ice. All coaches eventually get fired. Did they lose the ability to make their system work?

Why are the Phantoms getting it done on the ice consistently, while the Flyers are not? If coaching has little or nothing to do with it, than there are only 2 other possible reasons.

1. The players are just refusing to do as coached and making the same mistakes over and over again. Not really sure how this wouldn't reflect poorly on the coach, but we'll just agree to disagree I guess.

or

2. The players aren't good enough to get the job done on a consistent basis. If this is true, than the fault lies 100% with Ron Hextall as he failed to upgrade the PK with any significant player additions in both the offseason or the first 2 months of this season. If this is the case, it would certainly be a reason that would lead to him losing his job.

Saying the players just need to play better is an obvious and snarky answer. We all know that. How to get them to play better and to play better consistently is the real question and that absolutely involves coaching. If you don't think so, than you really don't have a grasp of how sports teams operate.
- BiggE

"Players need to work harder"

Bill Barber

https://www.mrt.com/news/...e-Bill-Barber-7872887.php

Do you think that Hextall failed to foresee the struggles of Provorov and Gostisbehere? Did he fail to recognize that Patrick wasn't going to take the next step in his evolution as a player to this point of the season?
- MJL

No but Hextall, knowing that Patrick is only 20 and might struggle at times, could have brought in a better option at 3C than what they currently have. I'm not unreasonable, the struggles of the D are not on him and the cost to bring in a quality top 4 guy in the offseason would have been high and not the correct move to make at this time.

However, failure to bring in a better option at center to replace the departing Filppula, and neither upgrading the goaltending with a more stable guy than Neuvirth nor upgrading the PK is squarely on Hextall.

There is nothing snarky about saying the players just need to play better. I've looked at the replays extensively. I see the repeated mistakes. These are not mistakes that are made because the players aren't good enough. Couturier is widely regarded as a Selke level defensive forward. His defensive instincts are clearly there. He has made numerous mistakes on the PK. Mistakes that should never have been made. Same with Provorov and other players. If the players don't execute how they're coached, it's not going to matter. It's painfully obvious that the way the Flyers often play on the PK is not how they're coached to play.
I've said it repeatedly, I don't disagree with anyone who wants to see a coaching change for the PK. It is a logical suggestion that is merited. I just know that even with that, the players have to get better. I also don't see one player making a major difference. Maybe if that player was a dominant defenseman but I don't see that being added in a trade.
- MJL

I believe its the players and not the system/coaching. that said, when you are throwing guys like Lehtera out there on the PK I don't wonder why the results are sometimes, well, bad. that is a coaching decision of course. They looked a lot better against ottawa with Coots and Giroux getting the most of the PK. Not sure we want Giroux getting all those extra tough minutes.

There is nothing snarky about saying the players just need to play better. I've looked at the replays extensively. I see the repeated mistakes. These are not mistakes that are made because the players aren't good enough. Couturier is widely regarded as a Selke level defensive forward. His defensive instincts are clearly there. He has made numerous mistakes on the PK. Mistakes that should never have been made. Same with Provorov and other players. If the players don't execute how their coached, it's not going to matter. It's painfully obvious that the way the Flyers often play on the PK is not how they're coached to play.
I've said it repeatedly, I don't disagree with anyone who wants to see a coaching change for the PK. It is a logical suggestion that is merited. I just know that even with that, the players have to get better. I also don't see one player making a major difference. Maybe if that player was a dominant defenseman but I don't see that being added in a trade.
- MJL

Not snarky at all, just a major cop out of reasoning.

If Weal would just play better and execute he could be a 35 goal scorer! I can say that about ANYONE, but what you refuse to accept is sports is based on what you do and not what you could do.

If a player or player(s) display they can not execute time after time, but show they can once in awhile...they purely are proving they can not do it.

Again I don't give a poop on what a player or team could possibly do, they are judged on what they do. Lindros could of been the most dominating player in the NHL history, but he didn't so he is not. It is not a tough concept to grasp.

No coach can make any system work without the players getting it done on the ice. All coaches eventually get fired. Did they lose the ability to make their system work?
- MJL

THey may have very well lost the ability to successfully communicate their ideas to the current bunch of players. It actually happens to most coaches over time and Lappy has been in that spot for a while. I don't disagree that it's on the players as much or perhaps more than the coach, but as you said before, no one would question replacing Lappy at this point.

Do you think that Hextall failed to foresee the struggles of Provorov and Gostisbehere? Did he fail to recognize that Patrick wasn't going to take the next step in his evolution as a player to this point of the season?
- MJL

Yes, he takes blame for that as do the coaching staff.

No but Hextall, knowing that Patrick is only 20 and might struggle at times, could have brought in a better option at 3C than what they currently have. I'm not unreasonable, the struggles of the D are not on him and the cost to bring in a quality top 4 guy in the offseason would have been high and not the correct move to make at this time.

However, failure to bring in a better option at center to replace the departing Filppula, and neither upgrading the goaltending with a more stable guy than Neuvirth nor upgrading the PK is squarely on Hextall.
- BiggE

We're always speaking at in terms of could've's. At what cost and who? Again, right or wrong, Hextall was always going to measure the cost. I agree with him.

Yes, he takes blame for that as do the coaching staff.
- Glak18

That's unreasonable.

We're always speaking at in terms of could've's. At what cost and who? Again, right or wrong, Hextall was always going to measure the cost. I agree with him.
- MJL

Without knowing the specifics of what exactly it would cost to make these improvements, I can't agree or disagree with Hextall. I can only state that he publicly stated that it was time for the team to take the next step, and so far, they've failed miserably. I can't see how some of the blame for that doesn't fall on the GM.