Homer style change.

- Elliott for Schneider with NJ retaining a million in salary. There’s still some good hockey in Schneider yet.

- Voracek for Tarasenko with us retaining 750K in salary.

- Patrick & Devils 2nd for Duchene if he’ll sign a five year 7/per extension.

- Simmonds to Buffalo for picks, they’re a playoff team and need some grit.

JVR Duchene Tarasenko
Giroux Couturier Konecny


- DraftandDestroy

👎 put the pipe down

Tarasenko for Jake

One need for this team is a sniper.
- 3flyerkids

Why would STL make that deal tho? /headscratch

For all the talk and fretting about the Flyers trading all of their picks and prospects in a desperate attempt to win a playoff round in 2019, here's what I actually think they will do.

First, they will cross their fingers and sacrifice to all the Gods ever known along with the dark lord Cthulu, that Neuvirth can at least stay healthy until Elliott is ready to return. At that point, they will try and move Neuvirth (with 50% retention), a pick (likely no higher than a 3rd) and a lesser prospect (perhaps Vecchione)for an upgrade in goal that they can also use in 19-20.

Next, once Morin is ready to go, they will move Folin, probably for a 6th or 7th, to a contender looking to add a little D depth at the deadline. They will also move Simmonds near or at the deadline as well. Since odds are that the acquiring team will be a contender, you likely aren't getting a roster player back, but hopefully the return will be a 1st in 2019 and perhaps a 3rd in 2020.

Finally, depending on the standings, they might deal Weal or Raffl (doubt they move both, you still need some bodies) at the deadline, and, if they can find a taker, they'll move AMac for a mid round pick with some money retained. If AMac is dealt, Myers will likely get called up for a look during the last quarter of the season.


Any other significant moves will be made after the season.
- BiggE

They all look like trades that have reasonable logic behind them for the Flyers...so they won't happen. The biggest problem the Flyers are facing is that other teams are not completely stupid, they know what players they have and what they have done. They want to poach and get the most value.

If the Raffl, Weal, MacDonald and Folin players have little value for the Flyers to keep then they are worth half of nothing to another team.

Here's a quick non-think games left sneak peak....I figure the Flyers need at least 45 wins to even think about the playoffs.

Dec = 14 games (10-4)
Jan = 13 games (8-5)
Feb = 11 games (7-4)
TDL
20 left (10-10)

That's being pretty reasonable too. Even though people want to be super optimistic by saying only 6 points out...they are way behind right now. If they don't win 18-20 games in the month of Dec and Jan they are donezo.

Those would be a series of patient, prudent moves.

Didn't patience and prudence just get kicked out of the building?
- Tomahawk

Not really, I think it was more being overly patient and prudent while doing absolutely nothing to improve the on ice product that got kicked out.

Those would be a series of patient, prudent moves.

Didn't patience and prudence just get kicked out of the building?


- Tomahawk

C'mon get with it. According to BiggE, some posters think that the Flyers are going to trade all of their picks and prospects and that the simple cure to the PK issues is to get whoever is coaching it on the Phantoms to coach the Flyers PK.

So, the Phantoms are killing penalties at a 85.8% rate?? Hmm, you would think adding whomever is overseeing the PK for the Phantoms to the Flyers to do the same might be a good idea.
- BiggE

For sure call him up....send down Lapps.

C'mon get with it. According to BiggE, some posters think that the Flyers are going to trade all of their picks and prospects and that the simple cure to the PK issues is to get whoever is coaching it on the Phantoms to coach the Flyers PK.
- MJL

No the cure for the PK is to convince the other teams PP not to execute.

They all look like trades that have reasonable logic behind them for the Flyers...so they won't happen. The biggest problem the Flyers are facing is that other teams are not completely stupid, they know what players they have and what they have done. They want to poach and get the most value.

If the Raffl, Weal, MacDonald and Folin players have little value for the Flyers to keep then they are worth half of nothing to another team.

Here's a quick non-think games left sneak peak....I figure the Flyers need at least 45 wins to even think about the playoffs.

Dec = 14 games (10-4)
Jan = 13 games (8-5)
Feb = 11 games (7-4)
TDL
20 left (10-10)

That's being pretty reasonable too. Even though people want to be super optimistic by saying only 6 points out...they are way behind right now. If they don't win 18-20 games in the month of Dec and Jan they are donezo.
- Glak18

Players that may not have value to a non playoff team like the Flyers, often have value to a contender. Folin is exactly the kind of cheap, acquisition that a contender looking to add some depth past their top 7, likes to snag. Raffl is another guy that lot of contending teams might see as a nice upgrade to what they have on their current 4th line and he brings the added value of being able to capably play either wing. Weal would be guy added for depth in case a couple of skilled players go down during a playoff run too.

Now none of them are bringing back much, but they still have value, even if that value is just late round picks.

C'mon get with it. According to BiggE, some posters think that the Flyers are going to trade all of their picks and prospects and that the simple cure to the PK issues is to get whoever is coaching it on the Phantoms to coach the Flyers PK.
- MJL

Good lord, you can really be a snarky s.o.b. sometimes. All I said re the PK is that whomever is coaching the PK for LHV is obviously doing a good job. Considering that the Flyers PK is dead last in the NHL is it really that much of a stretch to think that replacing Lappy with that person might, I repeat MIGHT, help? I'm not even saying they have to fire Lappy, he can still work with the young players and assist the team in other ways, I'm just thinking that it's probably time to let someone else take a shot at the PK.

JFC!

No the cure for the PK is to convince the other teams PP not to execute.
- Glak18

No the cure is to do nothing obviously....the players will start to execute much better.

No the cure for the PK is to convince the other teams PP not to execute.
- Glak18

That can be done on the ice! Just like they did in the Ottawa game. Unfortunately they thought it was only a 50 minute game.

Not really, I think it was more being overly patient and prudent while doing absolutely nothing to improve the on ice product that got kicked out.
- BiggE

So if you're Homer/Scott, why fire the guy in November if you're gonna end up just trading vets for picks anyway and not making the PO's?

My suspicion is that they are looking for a silver bullet to turn this season around. Big trade to shake things up.

I also suspect that they'll look to extend Simmer. He's the Flyeriest Flyer on the team afterall.

No the cure is to do nothing obviously....the players will start to execute much better.
- landros 2

Edit: oh wait the whole not doing anything just got the GM fired....opps maybe we need a new plan.

Good lord, you can really be a snarky s.o.b. sometimes. All I said re the PK is that whomever is coaching the PK for LHV is obviously doing a good job. Considering that the Flyers PK is dead last in the NHL is it really that much of a stretch to think that replacing Lappy with that person might, I repeat MIGHT, help? I'm not even saying they have to fire Lappy, he can still work with the young players and assist the team in other ways, I'm just thinking that it's probably time to let someone else take a shot at the PK.

JFC!
- BiggE

The repeated hyperbole and exaggerations of what people actually are saying sets the tone. Know why whoever is coaching the Phantoms PK is doing a good job? Because the players are getting it done on the ice. Like I've said previously many times. We can replace Lappy, there is justification for it. That won't matter however if the Flyers don't get it done on the ice. It's not hard to see that the issue is not coaching. We saw in the Ottawa game how the PK effectively read and reacted on when to pressure and when to contain. They didn't sag back and give free passing and shooting lanes to the net. The won puck battles and cleared when they had the opportunity. They had strong pressure up ice. All of that is an indication that the system and coaching is in place.

So if you're Homer/Scott, why fire the guy in November if you're gonna end up just trading vets for picks anyway and not making the PO's?

My suspicion is that they are looking for a silver bullet to turn this season around. Big trade to shake things up.

I also suspect that they'll look to extend Simmer. He's the Flyeriest Flyer on the team afterall.
- Tomahawk

I agree. Instead of making a good trade if it presents itself, they want the next GM to seek out trades and make the best one he can. They don't want a "action bias" according to Scott. Good Lord!

JVR moving up about time Hack. Ghost and Prov still a pair?

So if you're Homer/Scott, why fire the guy in November if you're gonna end up just trading vets for picks anyway and not making the PO's?

My suspicion is that they are looking for a silver bullet to turn this season around. Big trade to shake things up.

I also suspect that they'll look to extend Simmer. He's the Flyeriest Flyer on the team afterall.
- Tomahawk

Maybe, but I think a lot of it was a smokescreen. I think Holmgren was losing faith in Hextall as the guy who can get them over the hump and to being a contender. Add that to some perceived management issues and ownership being unhappy with some business aspects of the team and there you have the reasons Hextall is unemployed today. If they pick up any kind of upgrade at goal and center, they can at least make the case to STHs that they are trying to improve the on ice product without sacrificing the future.

If by the deadline they are well out of the playoff picture, which is likely, then they can sell moving Simmonds for picks/prospects by telling STH's and ownership as well that all moves from this point on are with the goal of putting a much improved team on the ice in 19-20 and we'd rather have the money we'd use on re-signing Simmonds available to either sign or trade for players who fill positions of more obvious need.

When it comes to these kind of situations, experience has taught me to never take what these guys say too literally. You really have to read between the lines.

I agree. Instead of making a good trade if it presents itself, they want the next GM to seek out trades and make the best one he can. They don't want a "action bias" according to Scott. Good Lord!

- MJL

It's weird, because from what Hexy said, it seemed like he had some legit irons in the fire at the time of exit.

Maybe, but I think a lot of it was a smokescreen. I think Holmgren was losing faith in Hextall as the guy who can get them over the hump and to being a contender. Add that to some perceived management issues and ownership being unhappy with some business aspects of the team and there you have the reasons Hextall is unemployed today. If they pick up any kind of upgrade at goal and center, they can at least make the case to STHs that they are trying to improve the on ice product without sacrificing the future.

If by the deadline they are well out of the playoff picture, which is likely, then they can sell moving Simmonds for picks/prospects by telling STH's and ownership as well that all moves from this point on are with the goal of putting a much improved team on the ice in 19-20 and we'd rather have the money we'd use on re-signing Simmonds available to either sign or trade for players who fill positions of more obvious need.

When it comes to these kind of situations, experience has taught me to never take what these guys say too literally. You really have to read between the lines.
- BiggE

None of us know what is going to happen, it's all speculation. What is not speculation is that the teams management, removed the GM because it was taking too long to get back to being a top team. Now they're going to trade Simmonds for picks and prospects? That may happen but it doesn't add up to the new mandate for the team moving forward.

The repeated hyperbole and exaggerations of what people actually are saying sets the tone. Know why whoever is coaching the Phantoms PK is doing a good job? Because the players are getting it done on the ice. Like I've said previously many times. We can replace Lappy, there is justification for it. That won't matter however if the Flyers don't get it done on the ice. It's not hard to see that the issue is not coaching. We saw in the Ottawa game how the PK effectively read and reacted on when to pressure and when to contain. They didn't sag back and give free passing and shooting lanes to the net. The won puck battles and cleared when they had the opportunity. They had strong pressure up ice. All of that is an indication that the system and coaching is in place.
- MJL

Why are the Phantoms getting it done on the ice consistently, while the Flyers are not? If coaching has little or nothing to do with it, than there are only 2 other possible reasons.

1. The players are just refusing to do as coached and making the same mistakes over and over again. Not really sure how this wouldn't reflect poorly on the coach, but we'll just agree to disagree I guess.

or

2. The players aren't good enough to get the job done on a consistent basis. If this is true, than the fault lies 100% with Ron Hextall as he failed to upgrade the PK with any significant player additions in both the offseason or the first 2 months of this season. If this is the case, it would certainly be a reason that would lead to him losing his job.

Saying the players just need to play better is an obvious and snarky answer. We all know that. How to get them to play better and to play better consistently is the real question and that absolutely involves coaching. If you don't think so, than you really don't have a grasp of how sports teams operate.

Players that may not have value to a non playoff team like the Flyers, often have value to a contender. Folin is exactly the kind of cheap, acquisition that a contender looking to add some depth past their top 7, likes to snag. Raffl is another guy that lot of contending teams might see as a nice upgrade to what they have on their current 4th line and he brings the added value of being able to capably play either wing. Weal would be guy added for depth in case a couple of skilled players go down during a playoff run too.

Now none of them are bringing back much, but they still have value, even if that value is just late round picks.
- BiggE

I disagree a bit, but I will agree that Raffl could be an extremely useful player for a playoff team because he is versatile and has shown he can score some dirty goals.

The rest of the players I consider to be devalue players, they don't add a sweetener one bit. They actually hurt the Flyers by including them in trade due to performance and/or contract:

Lehtera, Weise, Weal, MacDonald, Folin, Neuvirth. Any one of these players could be placed on waivers and they will guarantee clear.

The Brayden Schenn trade for example. Schenn is not worth 2 1st round picks, the Flyers received a 1st round pick to help St. Louis clear space to fit Schenn and take Lehtera.

xx

Good lord, you can really be a snarky s.o.b. sometimes. All I said re the PK is that whomever is coaching the PK for LHV is obviously doing a good job. Considering that the Flyers PK is dead last in the NHL is it really that much of a stretch to think that replacing Lappy with that person might, I repeat MIGHT, help? I'm not even saying they have to fire Lappy, he can still work with the young players and assist the team in other ways, I'm just thinking that it's probably time to let someone else take a shot at the PK.

JFC!
- BiggE

The time has come for changes. Some around here might not like it, but the organization has decided to move on from the patient, only build for tomorrow approach. I’m not concerned that their going to blow it up or trade away all the young assets. Personally after listening to Hextall I think he was almost there anyways, but the new guy will obviously have a mandate to fix today’s issues.
I think it will be a very interesting next little while around here with some firings, some trades and maybe even some buyouts to debate...good times ahead.

Why are the Phantoms getting it done on the ice consistently, while the Flyers are not? If coaching has little or nothing to do with it, than there are only 2 other possible reasons.

1. The players are just refusing to do as coached and making the same mistakes over and over again. Not really sure how this wouldn't reflect poorly on the coach, but we'll just agree to disagree I guess.

or

2. The players aren't good enough to get the job done on a consistent basis. If this is true, than the fault lies 100% with Ron Hextall as he failed to upgrade the PK with any significant player additions in both the offseason or the first 2 months of this season. If this is the case, it would certainly be a reason that would lead to him losing his job.

Saying the players just need to play better is an obvious and snarky answer. We all know that. How to get them to play better and to play better consistently is the real question and that absolutely involves coaching. If you don't think so, than you really don't have a grasp of how sports teams operate.
- BiggE

To be fair, the AHL and NHL are way different leagues. Performance doesn't always transition. Scoring a lot in the A doesn't mean you can do that in the NHL, which I know you know this already. Most analysis is based off how it is done.

It's weird, because from what Hexy said, it seemed like he had some legit irons in the fire at the time of exit.
- Tomahawk

Don’t let truth get in the way of a good narrative.