I hate to break it to you boys, but it’s pretty moot at this point. The pens have their defense.

He won't make any comments when he knows he screwed up. Very valid point.
- Barnaby36

Nah. I think Myers sucks and is overrated and acquiring him actually makes zero sense for PIT.

Why the laugh? Wait I know: desperation because your team sucks

I only said Winnipeg would have to add and that's about it. Never mentioned a pick or whatever.
- Barnaby36

I am laughing at you because you are an incompetent mouth breather.

I am laughing at you because you are an incompetent mouth breather.
- Feds91Stammer

Nah... Barnaby is all right.

Not sure how it would work out or if it would make sense but I have wondered about something based around Brassard & Oleksiak or Maata for Myers & Perrault.

If it's Brassard & Oleksiak, they would need the Jets to retain half of Myers cap hit this year and I don't think that is enough value coming back for them to do it. Pens would likely have to add.

Brassard & Maata... not sure I love it. I like Myers and he would be a nice addition to the right side if they can extend him. Perrault's game would fit in great with the Pens but he gets injured a lot. Jets would likely have to add.
- MacPatty

I like Myers as well but I agree with Feds (he commented after you), he doesn’t make sense for our lineup. It would’ve made more sense to keep Jamie and get a better 3LD.. we got JJ instead. I wouldn’t give up Maatta and Brass for Myers either. I think that’s more Trouba territory than anything. At this point, who knows what Trouba is asking for. It could be $8M. His value, like any hockey player, is somewhat tied to his cap hit. Carey Price for example - takes a ton of flack because of his cap hit. I think we’re more lenient on Letang bouncing back because his cap hit is more palatable. Both are proven talents. Personally, I laughed at Price’s new contract but there’s also no questioning how well he was playing when he signed it

FWIW: post on CapFriendly, guy is proposing Skinner and a 3rd for Simon, Maatta, and a 2nd. Doesn’t make sense though, Carolina doesn’t need D

Should’ve gotten Kane and we’d be celebrating a 3peat still

FWIW: post on CapFriendly, guy is proposing Skinner and a 3rd for Simon, Maatta, and a 2nd. Doesn’t make sense though, Carolina doesn’t need D
- WSCTeton17

We are not good trading partners with Carolina

We are not good trading partners with Carolina
- RoloTahmasee

What are the wild doing with Dumba and Zucker? Did they go to arbitration? Neither are signed yet, Wild need to do something since Parise and Suter suck and Koivu is like 40, Staal is still around, both their G's are 30+.....seems like something could happen with them.

And like I said, the formula is obviously a good indicator of "good" and "bad" players. I'm sure there are outliers in there. My true question is the magnitude of separation, both from 1-10 and from 20-300.

Just by watching 20 seconds of a game, I can tell you that Connor McDavid is better than Dale Weise. It's apparent. I just can't say whether the way that the difference is calculated and presented is correct or not because I have not been presented with (and don't have the time to review) the reasoning behind the coefficients, metrics, and formula derivation.

I think JMFJ is a prime example. He's an "offensively minded" defenseman who's not very good at producing offense and is bad in his own zone. The league is littered with similar players and I think the length of his contract was a poor move by the Penguins. But what is a "replacement level" player? I think I would label TJ Brennan as a "replacement level" player, and I can say for a fact that JMFJ is light years better than him.

So again, it's the magnitude of difference that I question more than the rankings. Is Jeff Skinner better than Brassard? I think so, and the data backs that up apparently. But is the gap between the two as large or as small as the analytics make it out to be? I'm not so sure.
- jmatchett383

They really should qualify their information by advising how they found their formulae, & who came up with the outcomes. From what I've seen there are outcomes that rely on averages as the final answer - simple Corsi is an example of this. Especially when they say it will all wash out over a large sample size. I doubt a mathematician with any standing will put his name on a lot of the analytical data as there's are a lot of variables not accounted for but taken as a given. The micro stats as I've said before, as a pure source are a lot more accurate but are harder to amass due to there being less formulae & more 'actual' data which is harder to count.

From post on first page...Brassard + maata for trouba and Dano.....I like the idea of trouba, but Dano's never lived up to his potential offensively. Really good defensively, but unless we have a center coming back that "can" play top 6 minutes I wouldn't do it. 2 years ago that was Cullen....but, I'm the same age as him and I can tell that my body is slowing down over the last 2-3 years.

FWIW: post on CapFriendly, guy is proposing Skinner and a 3rd for Simon, Maatta, and a 2nd. Doesn’t make sense though, Carolina doesn’t need D
- WSCTeton17

I'd be all over this as a pens fan...but, yeah, unless Carolina, and Pittsburgh, have other moves going on this makes no sense.

Although, I feel like Simon is a better player then his stat line last season. Not as dynamic as others that we have, but also a really smart, responsible player.

Skinner is also >> Brassard

2017/18 WAR/82 per Corsica

Skinner: 2.06

Brassard: 0.48
- Feds91Stammer

Two different positions though. Brassard is very good at what he does....playmaking, draws, two way effectiveness. The Pens need snipers on his wings. (Kessel is more of a playmaker than Sniper). I could see guys like Sprong and Rust being effective. Both are fast and have shoot first mentality. Sheary was actually a nice fit, but obviously he's no longer an option. Maybe ZAR as he finds his game.

Anyway, a third line center who can slot up is extremely valuable to THIS particular team.

FWIW: post on CapFriendly, guy is proposing Skinner and a 3rd for Simon, Maatta, and a 2nd. Doesn’t make sense though, Carolina doesn’t need D
- WSCTeton17

No thanks. Even if Skinner is technically the bigger offensive threat, I'm taking quality center depth over adding a scoring winger.

Not to mention a young quality cost-controlled dman; how are the Pens replacing him?

I am laughing at you because you are an incompetent mouth breather.
- Feds91Stammer

I don't hate you and I know you don't hate me. Sorry bud I just didn't think the Brassard for Myers + something was that bad of a proposition.

Two different positions though. Brassard is very good at what he does....playmaking, draws, two way effectiveness. The Pens need snipers on his wings. (Kessel is more of a playmaker than Sniper). I could see guys like Sprong and Rust being effective. Both are fast and have shoot first mentality. Sheary was actually a nice fit, but obviously he's no longer an option. Maybe ZAR as he finds his game.

Anyway, a third line center who can slot up is extremely valuable to THIS particular team.
- cranktheradio

Don't forget about Guentzel. He's a good do it all kind of player and can snipe it too.

I'd be all over this as a pens fan...but, yeah, unless Carolina, and Pittsburgh, have other moves going on this makes no sense.

Although, I feel like Simon is a better player then his stat line last season. Not as dynamic as others that we have, but also a really smart, responsible player.
- cranktheradio

Couldn't have said it better. I don't think Simon sucks at all. I actually see good hockey IQ in him.

He wouldn't play on a line with Jagr @ a world championship for Czech Republic if he didn't have at least a good hockey IQ.

I'd be all over this as a pens fan...but, yeah, unless Carolina, and Pittsburgh, have other moves going on this makes no sense.

Although, I feel like Simon is a better player then his stat line last season. Not as dynamic as others that we have, but also a really smart, responsible player.
- cranktheradio

As Rino so astutely mentioned, the other reason why it doesn’t make sense is because we would need to replace Maatta. Trouba is a RD. That would give us Letang, Schultz, and Trouba all on the right. Dumo, JJ, and Rue as LD
I stand by my position that we would’ve been far better off last year and this year had we gone after Evander Kane or even Skinner. Either one likely would’ve cost less than Brassard

As Rino so astutely mentioned, the other reason why it doesn’t make sense is because we would need to replace Maatta. Trouba is a RD. That would give us Letang, Schultz, and Trouba all on the right. Dumo, JJ, and Rue as LD
I stand by my position that we would’ve been far better off last year and this year had we gone after Evander Kane or even Skinner. Either one likely would’ve cost less than Brassard
- WSCTeton17

Dumo-Letang
JJ-Trouba
Oleksiak-Schultz

I'd say that is pretty damn good! JJ might be a step down from Maata but Trouba is talented enough to make up for that deficit. If it were to happen that would be a really nice D group, I just don't know if the Pens can do it within the cap once Trouba is signed.

Couldn't have said it better. I don't think Simon sucks at all. I actually see good hockey IQ in him.

He wouldn't play on a line with Jagr @ a world championship for Czech Republic if he didn't have at least a good hockey IQ.
- Barnaby36

Yes, everyone hates on him but he is a pretty solid player. He just doesn't have any high end tools that stick out. Not a fast skater, not a great shot, not a big hitter. But he was pretty decent when they needed him last year.

The only reason I would trade him is because the guys he is competing with for a roster spot like Sprong, ZAR & Blueger seem to have a higher ceiling.

As Rino so astutely mentioned, the other reason why it doesn’t make sense is because we would need to replace Maatta. Trouba is a RD. That would give us Letang, Schultz, and Trouba all on the right. Dumo, JJ, and Rue as LD
I stand by my position that we would’ve been far better off last year and this year had we gone after Evander Kane or even Skinner. Either one likely would’ve cost less than Brassard
- WSCTeton17

Trouba is an RFA. How exactly are the Pens going to acquire him from WPG and afford the likely $7M+ contract he's going to get?

Yes, everyone hates on him but he is a pretty solid player. He just doesn't have any high end tools that stick out. Not a fast skater, not a great shot, not a big hitter. But he was pretty decent when they needed him last year.

The only reason I would trade him is because the guys he is competing with for a roster spot like Sprong, ZAR & Blueger seem to have a higher ceiling.
- MacPatty

I don't know that ZAR and/or Blueger have a higher ceiling than Simon or even Sprong for that matter. All of these players are still pretty much unknowns as they haven't really shown much or had the chance to show much yet.

Sprong is really the only one with any real pedigree. What are you basing Blueger's ceiling on?

Of the young players on the Pens, I'm still most concerned about Sprong in regards to how Sullivan is going to handle him. IMO you need to allow a player like him to spread his wings a bit before putting a harness on him. I know that sounds a bit counterintuitive to developing defensive awareness, but when you have players like him with such raw talent I think you have to handle him different.

Kucherov just got 9.5 mill per...

Kucherov just got 9.5 mill per...
- MattStrat

I wonder if they’ve given up on Karlsson