Unless it’s your first I doubt it’s enough.
- Iggysbff

I still would. Pesce is only 24 and a RHD.
25th overall and Brown is fair value I think.

Or good players that are young and right-handed D-men apparently.
- Steven_Seagull

Fixed

I still would. Pesce is only 24 and a RHD.
25th overall and Brown is fair value I think.
- PatC80

Close. Depends what they think their need is.

I still would. Pesce is only 24 and a RHD.
25th overall and Brown is fair value I think.
- PatC80

We should be trading Gardiner, not Brown

We should be trading Gardiner, not Brown
- mr.sir

Gardiner and Bracco

for

Dumba

Gardiner and Bracco

for

Dumba
- mr.sir

Fixed
- PatC80

- Steven_Seagull

That’s a nicer response than I’d have given that ...

That’s a nicer response than I’d have given that ...
- Iggysbff

I don’t want to get banned...again.

Both Hall of fame shytty.

But Hall for Larsson worse.
- Iggysbff

Kessel was never traded for those players, so its apples to oranges.

Actually, if the Seguin pick wasnt so abornmally high, and it wouldve landed in the general 5-12 range, would that Kessel deal be bad at all? Id argue, not so much.

Apparently Carolina is on the verge of a fire sale, with only Aho being untouchable.


Pesce? Not for Nylander, but our 1st+Brown is probably a start there.
- Feeling Glucky?

I like Pesce, not sure about giving up a 1st for him though. Depends what else is out there. But Pesce still isn't that #1 D the Leafs need so adding Pesce would be nice, there are bigger fish to fry.

Kessel was never traded for those players, so its apples to oranges.

Actually, if the Seguin pick wasnt so abornmally high, and it wouldve landed in the general 5-12 range, would that Kessel deal be bad at all? Id argue, not so much.
- Buggy166

Kessel for Seguin is a bad trade for Toronto.

Kessel for Hamilton is a bad trade for Toronto.

Kessel for Seguin and Hamilton is atrocious. Top 10 worst deals in team history.

The Leafs would be laughing right now if they had just one of those two guys, just imagine both. Not having Hamilton right now hurts even more because he's almost exactly what this team needs, big, RHD under 25 potentially #1 D.

Burke put this team 5 years behind by trying to put them 5 years ahead in 5 minutes.

Honest question.

Is Babcock a coach that can develop talent, or more 1 that can manage good players & get team results?

Honest question.

Is Babcock a coach that can develop talent, or more 1 that can manage good players & get team results?
- Aussiepenguin

Looks to be more column B than column A at the moment.

His success with Team Canada is obvious. He had the best team on paper and delivered the expected result by putting together the right combinations of players and managing a team full of giant egos.

His Stanley Cup success is existent but he has 1 Stanley Cup and 3 Finals appearances. One was a miracle run with a Ducks team that looked like poop on paper but got amazing goaltending. The other two were runs with a veteran Detroit team that was put together, developed and coached by Scottie Bowman and to a small degree Dave Lewis.

Here is the team Babcock inherited.

http://www.hockeydb.com/i...ons/teams/0000342006.html

Datsyuk at 27, Zetterberg at 24, Lidstrom at 35, Holmstrom at 32, Yzerman at 40, Shanahan at 36, Hasek at 40, Osgood at 32 and so on and so on

In 3 years, he won the Cup but it wasn't exactly with guys he developed.

http://www.hockeydb.com/i...ons/teams/0000342008.html

Maybe Kronwall, Filippula, Franzen, Hudler and Helm you could kind of argue he molded but it's iffy because we all know who did the heavy lifting for the Red Wings and it wasn't these guys.

In Anaheim, his leading players were Kariya, Sykora, Oates, LeClerc, R. Niedermayer, Ozolinch, Thomas, Pahlsson and Giguere. Only 3 of them were with the Ducks when they finally won the Cup.

http://www.hockeydb.com/i...ons/teams/0002222003.html

So it's not like anybody could say he developed the players that would later go on to win afterwards. Same with Detroit right now who have little to nothing to show in terms of young players he developed.

Looks to be more column B than column A at the moment.

His success with Team Canada is obvious. He had the best team on paper and delivered the expected result by putting together the right combinations of players and managing a team full of giant egos.

His Stanley Cup success is existent but he has 1 Stanley Cup and 3 Finals appearances. One was a miracle run with a Ducks team that looked like poop on paper but got amazing goaltending. The other two were runs with a veteran Detroit team that was put together, developed and coached by Scottie Bowman and to a small degree Dave Lewis.

Here is the team Babcock inherited.

http://www.hockeydb.com/i...ons/teams/0000342006.html

Datsyuk at 27, Zetterberg at 24, Lidstrom at 35, Holmstrom at 32, Yzerman at 40, Shanahan at 36, Hasek at 40, Osgood at 32 and so on and so on

In 3 years, he won the Cup but it wasn't exactly with guys he developed.

http://www.hockeydb.com/i...ons/teams/0000342008.html

Maybe Kronwall, Filippula, Franzen, Hudler and Helm you could kind of argue he molded but it's iffy.

In Anaheim, his leading players were Kariya, Sykora, Oates, LeClerc, R. Niedermayer, Ozolinch, Thomas, Pahlsson and Giguere. Only 3 of them were with the Ducks when they finally won the Cup.

http://www.hockeydb.com/i...ons/teams/0002222003.html

So it's not like anybody could say he developed the players that would later go on to win afterwards. Same with Detroit right now who have little to nothing to show in terms of young players he developed.
- Unholy_Goalie

I get the impression that he's not a 'development' coach that will get young guys & bring them through to a high level but more someone that 'needs' developed players.


That's a little concerning if I'm a Leafs fan.

I don’t want to get banned...again.
- Steven_Seagull

Worse than Nurse for Nylander?

I get the impression that he's not a 'development' coach that will get young guys & bring them through to a high level but more someone that 'needs' developed players.


That's a little concerning if I'm a Leafs fan.
- Aussiepenguin

That depends entirely on the horses he's given to run with. Even if he wears out his welcome with the players, he'll at least have taught them accountability and become a common enemy for the players to bond together against if and when a coaching change is made down the line.

He signed an 8 year contract and he's used 3 of those years so far. The 1st year was the "pain" year, last year they made the playoffs and this year they set some franchise "records". But progress usually isn't linear. The division was weak this year and that could be completely different next year. They could miss the playoffs. Or they could get bounced in the 1st round again.

Very few teams win a Cup right away, it usually takes many years and many failures to get to the prize. The Capitals, with one of the greatest goal scorers of all-time, took 13 years to get past the 2nd round. Progress is a slow process.

Worse than Nurse for Nylander?
- mr.sir

Nope, much better.

That depends entirely on the horses he's given to run with. Even if he wears out his welcome with the players, he'll at least have taught them accountability and become a common enemy for the players to bond together against if and when a coaching change is made down the line.

He signed an 8 year contract and he's used 3 of those years so far. The 1st year was the "pain" year, last year they made the playoffs and this year they set some franchise "records". But progress usually isn't linear. The division was weak this year and that could be completely different next year. They could miss the playoffs. Or they could get bounced in the 1st round again.

Very few teams win a Cup right away, it usually takes many years and many failures to get to the prize. The Capitals, with one of the greatest goal scorers of all-time, took 13 years to get past the 2nd round. Progress is a slow process.
- Unholy_Goalie

I'm not sure you can compare the current Leafs to any of the other teams. Each team is different with many different variables affecting their opposition.

If the organisation is being hindered in the development of their young players then something has to be done - I'm sure the Oil with all their talent was just waiting for it all to click, it hasn't & it's all been a little bit of a mess. If Babcock cannot develop his young players without upsetting them then someone should step in so those players have the best possible environment for success. At the same time, you can't let players dictate terms either. If the top players (who I believe will stick solid with each other), are in a constant battle with the coach, don't expect great results. I wouldn't be surprised if Babcock can't get it together the organisation brings in an 'assistant', to help with the development. That assistant may be another Patty Marleau type, or a coach.

How long do you think the organisation gives Babcock until they basically say we want a SCF minimum or you are going?

Mike you are becoming like the TO media

Go Vegas

I'm not sure you can compare the current Leafs to any of the other teams. Each team is different with many different variables affecting their opposition.

If the organisation is being hindered in the development of their young players then something has to be done - I'm sure the Oil with all their talent was just waiting for it all to click, it hasn't & it's all been a little bit of a mess. If Babcock cannot develop his young players without upsetting them then someone should step in so those players have the best possible environment for success. At the same time, you can't let players dictate terms either. If the top players (who I believe will stick solid with each other), are in a constant battle with the coach, don't expect great results. I wouldn't be surprised if Babcock can't get it together the organisation brings in an 'assistant', to help with the development. That assistant may be another Patty Marleau type, or a coach.

How long do you think the organisation gives Babcock until they basically say we want a SCF minimum or you are going?
- Aussiepenguin

5 years...

Signed an 8 yr contract, three of those years already completed;
8-3 = 5.

It's a good thing, I passed grade 9 science class.

5 years...

Signed an 8 yr contract, three of those years already completed;
8-3 = 5.

It's a good thing, I passed grade 9 science class.
- PatC80

And we are very proud of you buddy.

And we are very proud of you buddy.
- Scabeh

5 years...

Signed an 8 yr contract, three of those years already completed;
8-3 = 5.

It's a good thing, I passed grade 9 science class.
- PatC80

Impressive stuff.
Patsy>UG