You're out of your mind. Simmonds is a much better player than Schenn.
- MikesPillBottle

How is Simmonds a much better player than Schenn?

Schenn and Simmonds are virtually the same player. Schenn is a little more skilled, Simmonds will drop the gloves a little more. Simmonds is older, but signed to a more team-friendly deal. Schenn's scoring is on the exact trajectory as Simmond's career totals, actually very slightly better.

It's amazing how people are completely biased to one player over the other. The "best player not in NHL" phenomenon that Jsaq posted earlier is amazing.
- TheGreat28

I don't believe Schenn's numbers from last year are sustainable. There is a very real possibility that last year was his career year. JMO.

49th?!?!?!?! Wow throw the bank at him now!!! 49th!!!!!!
- MikesPillBottle

There are 898 players (not sure if that include goalies or just skaters) that are listed in the regular season points leaders for last year on NHL. Schenn was 49th in the league with 59 points. Simmonds was 41st in the league with 60 points.

Yet one is average and the other very good.

I don't believe Schenn's numbers from last year are sustainable. There is a very real possibility that last year was his career year. JMO.
- PhillySportsGuy

Possibly. But I think he can be a consistent 25/55 guy. I don't want to go more than 3 years, but I can live with 5 million per.

I don't believe Schenn's numbers from last year are sustainable. There is a very real possibility that last year was his career year. JMO.
- PhillySportsGuy

Simmonds from age 21 - 24 (40, 30, 49, and 32) - last was in 45 games

Schenn from age 21 - 24 (26, 41, 47 and 59 points)

Simmonds, ages 25 - 27 (60, 50, 60)


What makes you think it's not sustainable? There is nothing in Schenn's past that suggests that it's unsustainable.

Possibly. But I think he can be a consistent 25/55 guy. I don't want to go more than 3 years, but I can live with 5 million per.
- BiggE

I doubt he takes that deal, but I would be fine with it as well. I see him as a 50-55 point guy if you give him top 6 minutes and top line PP time. He's a nice player.

This is how I feel as well. I really want the team to try going after a young forward with top line potential. I felt Schenn could be a part of a big package (code) to get one. I worry about Giroux and the pounding he's taken over the years (code). How much longer does he have as a #1 center? I don't believe the Flyers have anyone in the system with the upside of a 1C (Maybe Couturier with the right linemates?).

They're also likely to be competitive from here on out, so the chances of getting a top pick and securing a top line player in the draft seem pretty remote.
- PhillySportsGuy

Depressing blog today. Can't believe it's been 17 years!
- consigrn

to say the least

Simmonds from age 21 - 24 (40, 30, 49, and 32) - last was in 45 games

Schenn from age 21 - 24 (26, 41, 47 and 59 points)

Simmonds, ages 25 - 27 (60, 50, 60)


What makes you think it's not sustainable? There is nothing in Schenn's past that suggests that it's unsustainable.
- TheGreat28

All of his numbers line up similarly to past years except his shooting percentage took a nice jump this season. My worry with Schenn is that he's pretty one dimensional. If they take him off the PP, his numbers will take a pretty substantial hit. He's also reliant on his linemates to help offset his weak defensive/two-way play.

Basically, he had his best season as a pro, but his increase in point production was also aided by usage and luck.

I agree that he's pretty similar to Simmonds, but Simmonds is also signed at a great deal. That's a major factor in all of this. I also don't think Schenn will produce in the consistent way Simmonds has. Simmonds has routinely shot a higher percentage and generates more shots on goal. Simmonds' unique ability to score goals around the net is one of the primary reasons the PP has been strong during his time as a Flyer (except last year, which I believe to be more fluky than bad).

If Schenn can show that the jump in shooting percentage last season is sustainable due to a change in play, then he'll likely continue to be a 55-60 point guy. If he regresses to where he's been throughout his career, he's likely back down to the 50 point range.

How is Simmonds a much better player than Schenn?
- TheGreat28

Point production. I don't find them dissimilar. In what they bring to a team ie: leadership, energy showing up when team needs them. I think simmonds intangibles are light-years ahead of schenn. Simmonds would be getting lucic area contract offers if he was an Ufa imo.

Flyers Offer Brayden Schenn Two-Year Contract in Arbitration

http://thehockeywriters.c...-contract-in-arbitration/

All of his numbers line up similarly to past years except his shooting percentage took a nice jump this season. My worry with Schenn is that he's pretty one dimensional. If they take him off the PP, his numbers will take a pretty substantial hit. He's also reliant on his linemates to help offset his weak defensive/two-way play.

Basically, he had his best season as a pro, but his increase in point production was also aided by usage and luck.

I agree that he's pretty similar to Simmonds, but Simmonds is also signed at a great deal. That's a major factor in all of this. I also don't think Schenn will produce in the consistent way Simmonds has. Simmonds has routinely shot a higher percentage and generates more shots on goal. Simmonds' unique ability to score goals around the net is one of the primary reasons the PP has been strong during his time as a Flyer (except last year, which I believe to be more fluky than bad).

If Schenn can show that the jump in shooting percentage last season is sustainable due to a change in play, then he'll likely continue to be a 55-60 point guy. If he regresses to where he's been throughout his career, he's likely back down to the 50 point range.
- PhillySportsGuy

You could also argue that finding a more consistent role and gaining some confidence as a result factored into the increase in his shooting percentage, and that has a high-degree of probability to continue moving forward. Yes, Schenn is one dimensional. But so is Simmonds really.

You bring up consistency, but he has been the more consistent player of the two through age 24. In fact, Simmonds jumped from 23 points in year 1 with Kings to 40 in year two (2010), then regressed to 30. You could make the argument that the Kings were willing to include him in the deal over a fear that he had a career year in 2010. It's the same mistake we could make now with Schenn.

You are right, the major difference right now is that Simmonds is controllable for 3 more years at team friendly 3.975 / year. But he is also 3 years older. Salaries don't go down from year to year. So you really can't compare a deal from a couple of years ago to a deal today. You have to look at comparables, which is what MJL did.

Again, I just don't think the team has any viable option in the system to replace his production over the next 3-4 years. Hakstol/Hextall clearly value two-way players, which means they are not trading for a top-line, pure goal scorer either. Unless he's asking for 5.5+ for 4 years, resigning Schenn is the smarter play right now.

PS: Even at 5.5 for 4 years for Schenn, there is probably more risk in Jakes's contract than that contract for Schenn.

Schenn is not far off ....5 years .... 26-27.5 is what he deserves...in my opinion....obviously Hextall wants to see more, and that's why he is asking for only two years. The term says more then the amount. Hopefully they can get it figured out this weekend

Point production. I don't find them dissimilar. In what they bring to a team ie: leadership, energy showing up when team needs them. I think simmonds intangibles are light-years ahead of schenn. Simmonds would be getting lucic area contract offers if he was an Ufa imo.
- Tfaehner

I agree, Simmonds scores much higher in leadership. That's a function of personality, but also having a more consistent role and being 3 years older. Even with experience and maturity, I'm not sure that Schenn would ever be able to fill that role. But that doesn't make Simmonds "a much better player" IMO.

Here's the thing. If it goes to arbitration and the Flyers win, where is the team if he walks in 2 years? Now, that's a long time and they can of course extend him before they get to that point. But still, their replacement options for under 5 million are slim.

I'm curious about the disparity between the team's offer and Schenn's ask, if Friedman's numbers are correct.
- TheGreat28

If he gets a 2 year deal, and they can't re-sign him, I assume he'd be traded. I still think Hextall gets him signed to a 4 year deal for between $4.8-$5mm.

I'm not shy about spending over $5mm to replace him, because I wouldn't replace him with a similar player. I'd try my ass off to land an upgrade.

I agree, Simmonds scores much higher in leadership. That's a function of personality, but also having a more consistent role and being 3 years older. Even with experience and maturity, I'm not sure that Schenn would ever be able to fill that role. But that doesn't make Simmonds "a much better player" IMO.
- TheGreat28

I was half agreeing with you. I think they are similar value as far as game play. But the intangibles to me add at least a million in salary. They also make simmonds more "core nucleus" player. So if simmonds is lucic area 7 years 7 per Schenn as a free agent could easily get 5.5 6 in an overpay. So anything 5 or under is reasonable hometown discount. If he's unwilling to make his contract work for the better the team and take term and be a part our future. Than he can frank off.

If he gets a 2 year deal, and they can't re-sign him, I assume he'd be traded. I still think Hextall gets him signed to a 4 year deal for between $4.8-$5mm.

I'm not shy about spending over $5mm to replace him, because I wouldn't replace him with a similar player. I'd try my ass off to land an upgrade.
- Jsaquella

I think it's close enough to get a deal done... Kid has improved every year. I think he is a decent top 6 ....

Schenn is not far off ....5 years .... 26-27.5 is what he deserves...in my opinion....obviously Hextall wants to see more, and that's why he is asking for only two years. The term says more then the amount. Hopefully they can get it figured out this weekend
- landros 2

The term being asked for in arbitration really doesn't say that. Arbitration can only result in a one or two year deal.

I think it's close enough to get a deal done... Kid has improved every year. I think he is a decent top 6 ....
- landros 2

I think he's getting a 4 year deal, guessing between $4.85mm-$5.2mm per. Hextall wants to go longer, can only go one or two in arbitration.

It's just a process. Teams go low, players go high in arbitration filings. Why not? I wouldn't be amazed if he's signed by Monday's hearing

Im starting to feel like Schenn is getting as much, and similar, criticism as Carter got back in the day. 'Schenn/Carter can score goals but nothing else'. At the same time a lot of people were really critical of the front office that they didn't draft a sniper/goal-scorer, but a bunch of 'two-way Flyeresque grinders' instead. Unless you draft top 5-10 or get very lucky, it's really hard to get a do-it-all player. And believing the the team can just go out and get a young top6 stud instead is more of wishful thinking than reality nowadays.

A team needs players that has a nose for the goal, even though they don't always drive possession all day long. At least Schenn is also physical and doesn't shy away from going to the tough areas from time to time. It will suck that the team will probably have to trade away some of our young prospects (or older core players) in the future due to the cap but that will happen to all teams that are successful (which Im sure the Flyers will be).

Bill Meltzer: Remembering Dmitri Tertyshny and Larry Mickey
- bmeltzer

The first I ever heard of Dmitri Tertyshny was the time of his death. I was newly 17 and the information we receive today in detail of prospects didn't reach as far as it does today. Well this and a short teen attention span.

Im starting to feel like Schenn is getting as much, and similar, criticism as Carter got back in the day. 'Schenn/Carter can score goals but nothing else'. At the same time a lot of people were really critical of the front office that they didn't draft a sniper/goal-scorer, but a bunch of 'two-way Flyeresque grinders' instead. Unless you draft top 5-10 or get very lucky, it's really hard to get a do-it-all player. And believing the the team can just go out and get a young top6 stud instead is more of wishful thinking than reality nowadays.

A team needs players that has a nose for the goal, even though they don't always drive possession all day long. At least Schenn is also physical and doesn't shy away from going to the tough areas from time to time. It will suck that the team will probably have to trade away some of our young prospects (or older core players) in the future due to the cap but that will happen to all teams that are successful (which Im sure the Flyers will be).
- PhillySteen

Jeff Carter developed as a very good two way forward and one of our better faceoff men in his time here outside of scoring. Schenn in my opinion has had issues with consistency in terms of bringing his "A" game but still a very good player. On the flip side, the Flyers haven't always been fair to Schenn in terms of keeping him in one position. Even when things were going well for young Brayden, he's been switched from wing to wing or taken away from certain linemates in favor of getting another struggling player going in Jake Voracek. Any young player can only benefit if you find them a home at one position and regular line mates so chemitry can build.

In my team it's been a two way street of issues between Schenn and the Flyers. When Hartnell was moved, they tried to use Schenn the same way as they used Hartsy. Not the same player though.

Yeah, Hartnell didn't get to 60 points till he was 26.

Schenn played well? He is an average player who had a few good months playing on the power play.
- MikesPillBottle

He was the best point producer 5 on 5 over the full season.

meh

5x5

or

4x5.5

if it reaches arb, 2 years would be preferable. 1 year and a trade at the deadline, depending on his production, wouldn't be too bad either i guess.

Would probably mean another wasted year of G's prime though.

I get that he's improved fairly steadily during his time in the league but Brayden has just never really WOW'D me, even when he was scoring at a nice pace. Anything over 5.5m long term seems pretty unreasonable to me.

The comps Schenn are between $5-5.5 mln. I figure this gets done 4 years $21-22 mln. Hextall hates losing ascending assets.