I think both Canucks and Leafs fans have their eyes on Nolan Patrick. I just want to see more improvement from guys like JV, Bo, Tree and Hutton etc. This team is only a few injuries away from another high pick. Let's hope JB starts to acquire picks rather than trade them away. I think he's finished dishing out picks.
- storm88

Couldn't hurt?

[quote=VANTEL]

If the going rate for a top 4 D-man is Hall for Larssen (who in my opinion isn't going to amount to very much in Edmonton) then JB scored a coup in my opinion. I was never a fan of McCann, I think at best he tops out as someone similar to Bonino, an effective 3C on a good team that has a dearth of scoring wingers to put around him to maximize his speed and shot.

If Guddy can provide some stability, leadership and clear the net, then I could care less about his offensive skills, we have Hutton and Edler for offense from the D. We've lacked someone who can protect our goalie since we let go Ohlund and Jovonoski.

As to the core argument, you only need 4-6 players to make a core:

A) #1 Goalie who's stable in net (meaning able to handle the pressure, if he's elite so much the better)

B) #1 and #2 D pair:
- The #1 has to be the best all-around defenseman on the team, can play in all situations and eat up to 30+ minutes a game, especially in the playoffs when you can potentially play up to a full 60 minutes if the game goes long enough
- The #2 has to be the best defensive defenseman on the team and who has the skills to keep the pressure off the #1 and is big/strong enough to take the punishment of the forecheck and clear the net of opposing forwards.

C) #1 Center:
- Ok, now here's where people are going to try and argue with me on my definitions. The 1C doesn't HAVE to be the best player on the team, it's great if you have someone like McDavid, Tavares, Toews, Crosby, Stamkos, Matthews etc. but it's not required. You can get along just fine with someone like Kopitar, Bergeron, Duchene, Monahan et. al. You just need someone that can consistantly take offensive zone starts and drive the offensive engine, whether it's via playmaking, being the power forward or as a sniper, it doesn't matter how many points they put up as long as they can win the majority of faceoffs so that they aren't constantly chasing the puck.

D) #1 Scoring Winger:
- Again, you can get along with your 1W being a playmaker if you have a 1C who's a sniper, or a power forward if you balance the line out. Most lines that score is about chemistry, and that's a matter of skill sets meshing along with the personalities of the players on it and the group dynamics on the ice and in the dressing room. It's why the Sedins are so good together, they're twins, they have special knowledge of where they are on the ice and what they can do with the puck when they have it.

The rest of the team are the interchangeable parts that you slot in and out as necessary as the needs of the team dictate/change. Some players are going to work out better on one team than another, or work better on one line with a particular player than another. There's no right or wrong way to build a team, but some general rules do apply:

- You absolutely NEED depth in all areas, and depth doesn't just mean skill/talent because when people get injured (and they do with regularity) there's a drop-off, the trick is to manage it and lessen it as much as you can. Having players learn and employ the exact same system in the AHL that the NHL team does goes a long way.
- You have to have as healthy of a team as possible if you want to make any sort of run, and your goaltender (whoever it may be that ends up playing the bulk of the starts) has to be stable enough to be solid in net even when facing upwards of 40-50 even beyond number of shots in a long OT playoff game.
- You have to have a top line that can score enough to cancel out the other team's top line so that your other lines can step up and provide the offense to seal the deal, this goes to having depth.
- You have to have a defense that is solid, can move the puck up to the forwards quickly and is either big/strong enough to take the punishment of the forecheck or else speedy and nimble enough to avoid it altogether. You also need to be able to clear the net of forwards trying to screen as much as possible.
- There has to be a recognition that every player is expendable, that every draft pick, every prospect, even players you consider core are expendable. If there is a deal out there that can improve your team without making you weaker in another area then you need to take it.
- Cap space is there for a reason, use it and term for players you want to keep as part of the core going forwards and don't be afraid to move on if due to age/injuries/inability to reach ceiling from them. Saving space is fine and dandy, but if you're saving space to sign someone and they sign elsewhere, you've just wasted that space when you could have used it to to sign two players to do the same job.
- The AHL is a great place to develop your prospects, and I'm not just talking about players here. Even people like GMs, coaches, training staff, etc. You need talent in all levels of your organization and it behooves you to groom the next generation of who's going to take over when say Benning is let go or WD is fired. A lot of the star GMs and coaches are all taken and the rest aren't worth wasting a dollar on.
- Finally, with expansion coming, and let's be frank, Vegas is only the first, I fully expect another Western based team in 2 years, whether it's in say Seattle or Portland in order to balance out the conferences and divisions. The rules governing the expansion draft then is likely going to be the same or similiar which means that it's going to be even MORE imparative that teams get as much depth as possible because the talent level is going to drop even more.

tl;dr Demko, Boeser, Juolevi and Horvat are our main core going forwards and everyone else and everything else is expendable in building around them if it makes us better that way.

I think both Canucks and Leafs fans have their eyes on Nolan Patrick. I just want to see more improvement from guys like JV, Bo, Tree and Hutton etc. This team is only a few injuries away from another high pick. Let's hope JB starts to acquire picks rather than trade them away. I think he's finished dishing out picks.
- storm88

I really think the team needs to continue to grow the young players they've selected and not rush them into the lineup. Unfortunately that means patience from the fans, because truthfully, some of them aren't going to turn out.

Nolan Patrick is another one of those kids who missed the draft by a few days (four), he should be compared to this years crop of kids because he's essentially the same age as this years draft group.

He put up some excellent numbers in the Western League, 102 points in 72 games, plus he's a big kid at 6'3" 195 pounds.

I really think the team needs to continue to grow the young players they've selected and not rush them into the lineup. Unfortunately that means patience from the fans, because truthfully, some of them aren't going to turn out.

Nolan Patrick is another one of those kids who missed the draft by a few days (four), he should be compared to this years crop of kids because he's essentially the same age as this years draft group.

He put up some excellent numbers in the Western League, 102 points in 72 games, plus he's a big kid at 6'3" 195 pounds.
- LeftCoaster

I am fortunate enough to see Patrick play lots. Hard to say cause it isn't his draft year last year but having seen Matthews on tv probably 15 times with juniors and worlds. I would say that Matthews has a better all around game.

At the end of this season, I don't know if Patrick has all the tools to be a number 1 overall pick. Great stats on a very good team. Not very physical and not very good defensively. His shot could use some work. The vision and offence are off the charts though.

Ok I've had a good sleep, ready to roll again


On the down side, one of our apple trees was so heavy with apples it fell over last night, WTF
- LeftCoaster

That's bad apple management right there.

That's bad apple management right there.
- CubanBuffet

I am sure Marwood has a good Apple wine recipe?

That's bad apple management right there.
- CubanBuffet

I feel shame

What are you talking about? Are you joking or serious? You think Guddy is gonna start putting up 20 goals and 50pts per season? or do you mean in the shutdown/terrifying aspect of Weber's game?
- Brooks_Light

Well, I meant that it is Tuesday, so here is my little bit of crazy.

And the second part, not the first, although as a 22 year old shea did put up some giddy numbers, 6 goals and 14 assists....

Not to mention but Gudbransons career point totals look an awful lot like sheas season numbers..... coincidence, perhaps

Crosby Malkin Letang. MAF.They all had mediocre years until they changed the coach .

A couple of trades , a couple of moves and they turned it around that Quick.

Thorton and Marleau have often been similar to the Sedins. Yes they brought in big Burns and had Pavelski. They also had that same lineup the year before and choked , once again.
- VANTEL

If your hoping the Canucks can rebound like these teams did your going to be disappointed ...you don't have the calibre of players they did ...not yet ...working on it but its apples and oranges to me

Well, I meant that it is Tuesday, so here is my little bit of crazy.

And the second part, not the first, although as a 22 year old shea did put up some giddy numbers, 6 goals and 14 assists....

Not to mention but Gudbransons career point totals look an awful lot like sheas season numbers..... coincidence, perhaps
- Pres.cup

sweet mother of god I hope you're right


unfortunately their career totals look nothing alike but I like your optimism

Did you just light one up?
- LeftCoaster

No, I just read that last 6 pages.

If your hoping the Canucks can rebound like these teams did your going to be disappointed ...you don't have the calibre of players they did ...not yet ...working on it but its apples and oranges to me
- Redmile247

you right in saying that Crosby, malkin, Kessel and Letang are better than The Sedins and Edler

But come on after that, Kunitz, Cullen, Bonino and Hagelin??? Hows that any different or better than our team?

The D on paper looks atrocious - Daley, Dumoulin, Schultz??

The kids like Rust and Sheary were huge in the playoffs - who could've seen that coming?

and I don't know who Matt Murray is

No one saw this team winner a cup, no one

I don't disagree. Like I said, I would have wanted to keep McCann as I had high hopes for him. A 180 pound rookie disappearing for stretches isn't strange.

That said you have to give to get and I'm looking forward to seeing what Gudbranson brings. I'm also not going to cry about giving up magical second round picks.
- bazz

When have the Canucks had a player similar to Gundbranson? 30 years ago? I mean a player that can fight, hit, intimidate and provide strong defense. We have had bruisers before but they couldn't skate. Bieksa was somewhat similar but he was a middle weight and had a hard time with larger forwards in front of the net. I think a lot of the kids will feel braver this year as Dorsett wasn't much of a deterrent. Half of EG's fights were in retaliation to an opponent taking a cheap shot at one of Florida's skill players. He doesn't participate in staged fights they are all spur of the moment or payback

I feel shame
- LeftCoaster

I feel a craving for apple crisp.

I don't get slotting each player into specific line numbers at any point in their career, let alone when they are still developing.

C:
-Horvat
-?

Wing:
-Boeser
-JV
-?

Dmen:
-Juolevi
-Hutton
-Tanev
-Gudbranson

Goaltending:
-Demko

If you're talking about a core, then from what I can tell we have most of the pieces, what we are missing is 1 top end C, 1 or 2 top end wingers, and perhaps a slight upgrade on our 2nd/3rd/4th Dmen depending on how the young guys turn out. The core in reality is almost set. It's now about executing the proper development to make sure they reach potential.

I am sure Marwood has a good Apple wine recipe?
- VANTEL

1) ferment apples in a garbage can in your garage.
2) bottle and give to friends.
3) decant a super Tuscan for yourself.

If your hoping the Canucks can rebound like these teams did your going to be disappointed ...you don't have the calibre of players they did ...not yet ...working on it but its apples and oranges to me
- Redmile247

How do you know that?

Players like Burrows who was slow and ineffective last year have been training all summer to be faster and more productive. He swears he is coming back in first line shape.

Tanev who had a weak shot last year has hired a shooting coach .

JV has been training with the twins

Tryamkin was in the gym weeks ago traing on fitness.

The team knows their weaknesses and will be trying to fix them all summer so how can you say with 100 % certainty that I will be disappointed?

How do you know that?

Players like Burrows who was slow and ineffective last year have been training all summer to be faster and more productive.


Tanev who had a weak shot last year has hired a shooting coach .

JV has been training with the twins

Tryamkin was in the gym weeks ago traing on fitness.

The team knows their weaknesses and will be trying to fix them all summer so how can you say with 100 % certainty that I will be disappointed?
- VANTEL

When have the Canucks had a player similar to Gundbranson? 30 years ago? I mean a player that can fight, hit, intimidate and provide strong defense. We have had bruisers before but they couldn't skate. Bieksa was somewhat similar but he was a middle weight and had a hard time with larger forwards in front of the net. I think a lot of the kids will feel braver this year as Dorsett wasn't much of a deterrent. Half of EG's fights were in retaliation to an opponent taking a cheap shot at one of Florida's skill players. He doesn't participate in staged fights they are all spur of the moment or payback
- CanuckDon

Before I respond, I'll say this….I like having Gudbranson, he's a good second pairing guy.

That said, he's not "strong defensively"….YET, he's just ok. That's why the Panthers analytical guys wanted to trade him, his shot suppression numbers weren't very good. Although he had some of the toughest assignments in terms of level of competition. But I firmly believe he's about to become a better player, AND, he's only 24 years old!

Ed Jovanovski was a similar player but better of course. He could put up points, skate, hit, fight, you name it. He played from 99 to 06, so only ten years ago, not 30.

To date, Bryan Allen is a good comparable to Gudbranson.

1) ferment apples in a garbage can in your garage.
2) bottle and give to friends.
3) decant a super Tuscan for yourself.
- CubanBuffet

Before I respond, I'll say this….I like having Gudbranson, he's a good second pairing guy.

That said, he's not "strong defensively"….YET, he's just ok. That's why the Panthers analytical guys wanted to trade him, his shot suppression numbers weren't very good. Although he had some of the toughest assignments in terms of level of competition. But I firmly believe he's about to become a better player, AND, he's only 24 years old!

Ed Jovanovski was a similar player but better of course. He could put up points, skate, hit, fight, you name it. He played from 99 to 06, so only ten years ago, not 30.

To date, Bryan Allen is a good comparable to Gudbranson.
- LeftCoaster

Bryan Allen was a bottom pair Dman not 3-4

Bryan Allen was a bottom pair Dman not 3-4
- VANTEL

He was a middle paring guy, which is exactly what Gudbranson is so far.

He was a middle paring guy, which is exactly what Gudbranson is so far.
- LeftCoaster

He will be a Jackman / Mitchell type Dman . And I will gladly have that on my roster.

He will be a Jackman / Mitchell type Dman . And I will gladly have that on my roster.
- VANTEL

Ya I said I'm happy to have him considering his age and physicality. That's perfectly fine by me. Doesn't change the fact Bryan Allen was a decent dman. Unless you just don't like him because I thought he was ok lol?

Ya I said I'm happy to have him considering his age and physicality. That's perfectly fine by me. Doesn't change the fact Bryan Allen was a decent dman. Unless you just don't like him because I thought he was ok lol?
- LeftCoaster

I like Bryan Allen and Brendan Dillon another comparable that you called him. They are perfect for bottom pairing.

He is a better leader and is better skilled . He is not a bottom pairing Dman . He is great for a second pairing .