Well, that's just like, your opinion, man.

Seriously though we just disagree on Murray's value. Corey yielded a 9th overall which is more significant than saying 'just a first round pick'. Plus he was older, cost more money, and just sh*t the bed in his two playoff games.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

I agree. I think Murray's value is pretty significant. I just depends on if you get a GM enamored with getting a very young franchise tender.

Although I'd say I think you'd have to club Sullivan over the head before you pulled the trigger on that deal. You can tell he "flat out" loves Murray.

I agree. I think Murray's value is pretty significant. I just depends on if you get a GM enamored with getting a very young franchise tender.

Although I'd say I think you'd have to club Sullivan over the head before you pulled the trigger on that deal. You can tell he "flat out" loves Murray.
- madmike71

This is why Fleury will request to go elsewhere.

Murray won the job, he is the coaches go to guy and Fleury is too young and too good to be playing second fiddle to a 22 year old kid.

JR has snagged a few of these good "free" asset players like Vesey. Dunno if he can get him but I don't doubt for a second that telling any player you have an open shot to be Sid or Malkins left winger is not one of the most enticing thing you could hear after salary.
- Guile

IDK, Im not sure other Type A athletes are too concerned with who they get to play with. It's not like every top WR is knocking on the door to play with Tom Brady. I think its a non factor on individuals. Salary, location, how well the team is run is most likely a higher priority.

So the RW's are:
Kessel
Hornquest
Rust

LW's:
Hags
Sherry
Kuni

I dont this Fehr is necessary. If there is a move with him that might work to free space and upgrade a spot.

IDK, Im not sure other Type A athletes are too concerned with who they get to play with. It's not like every top WR is knocking on the door to play with Tom Brady. I think its a non factor on individuals. Salary, location, how well the team is run is most likely a higher priority.

So the RW's are:
Kessel
Hornquest
Rust

LW's:
Hags
Sherry
Kuni

I dont this Fehr is necessary. If there is a move with him that might work to free space and upgrade a spot.
- sammy87

Bit of a difference in the NFL, rookie's salaries are set from the get go, so high type drafts are pricey. No one really walks on anymore, which is technically what Vesey is at this point.

Fehr did not get a training camp, conditioning, and had an injury during the season... If we look at how bad Maatta looked due to the no conditioning, give Fehr the same benefit of the doubt. You did see how great he looked the last series and a half, that is not even his normal level.

He honestly could be a mid 6 RW on many teams, we just happen to be strong at that point. 2 mil for a RW/C that can step up for anyone who gets hurt is a good price. 3.85 for a LW who can step up... overpriced.

This is why Fleury will request to go elsewhere.

Murray won the job, he is the coaches go to guy and Fleury is too young and too good to be playing second fiddle to a 22 year old kid.
- stackthepads

That doesn't have any bearing on the "trade Murray" discussion though. If Murray was hypothetically traded, then Fleury would be totally happy to stay here.

IDK, Im not sure other Type A athletes are too concerned with who they get to play with. It's not like every top WR is knocking on the door to play with Tom Brady. I think its a non factor on individuals. Salary, location, how well the team is run is most likely a higher priority.

So the RW's are:
Kessel
Hornquest
Rust

LW's:
Hags
Sherry
Kuni

I dont this Fehr is necessary. If there is a move with him that might work to free space and upgrade a spot.
- sammy87

Don't forget about Scott Wilson. It's easy to forget about him, but people are saying he's the best goal scorer of the WB bunch.

Don't forget about Scott Wilson. It's easy to forget about him, but people are saying he's the best goal scorer of the WB bunch.
- madmike71

I've factored him in... but not going to give him the Malkin LW by default. I WANT someone to come in, and compete for Sid and or Geno's LW. Not anythign against Sheary or Wilson, or even Kuhn... but no harm in making them compete for the job, or having GOOD depth.


edit: I also thinking breaking up HBK can make the team as a whole better. Now, I will leave Kessel with Bones for the time being, due to the matchup nightmare. But I do not believe Hags is required for that line. I think he'd be great with Sid, and Sheary, another fast player who can grind and forecheck, could be a fair swap with Hags down there.

Don't forget about Scott Wilson. It's easy to forget about him, but people are saying he's the best goal scorer of the WB bunch.
- madmike71

I feel like Rust, Wilson, Kuhn, SHeary, Sundquest are all pretty solid bottom 6 players. I dont see Fehr really needed with them. I thought he was a bit underwhelming. Not a problem, just a log jam of bottom 6 guys on the team.

I agree. I think Murray's value is pretty significant. I just depends on if you get a GM enamored with getting a very young franchise tender.

Although I'd say I think you'd have to club Sullivan over the head before you pulled the trigger on that deal. You can tell he "flat out" loves Murray.
- madmike71

Right, some GM will be see Murray as the franchise goaltender of his wet dreams. My whole point to this discussion is that its prudent to do your homework on both before making a decision. There are pro's and con's to each scenario.

If Fleury is only going to get you a 3rd and a crappy prospect. But someone is willing to trade a a young top 6 forward + pick + good prospect for Murray...then it's not such an obvious decision to go the Fleury route.

Right, some GM will be see Murray as the franchise goaltender of his wet dreams. My whole point to this discussion is that its prudent to do your homework on both before making a decision. There are pro's and con's to each scenario.

If Fleury is only going to get you a 3rd and a crappy prospect. But someone is willing to trade a a young top 6 forward + pick + good prospect for Murray...then it's not such an obvious decision to go the Fleury route.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

What if you moved Murray + Kuni for a legit top 6 young player+pick??????

I've factored him in... but not going to give him the Malkin LW by default. I WANT someone to come in, and compete for Sid and or Geno's LW. Not anythign against Sheary or Wilson, or even Kuhn... but no harm in making them compete for the job, or having GOOD depth.
- Guile

I agree, however I don't see us getting any UFA's of significance. Frankly, I don't want them offering a big money deal to an aging UFA like Ladd.

Who do you have in mind?

What if you moved Murray + Kuni for a legit top 6 young player+pick??????
- sammy87

Makes me wish Tampa Bay was in need of a goalie, with Bishop having only 1 year left. I'd be humping a trade idea of a Murray (with or without Kuni) for Drouin.

Don't forget about Scott Wilson. It's easy to forget about him, but people are saying he's the best goal scorer of the WB bunch.
- madmike71

A lot of talk about our forward depth. These WBS guys did an amazing job playing their roles for us last year. But does a team with literally half the forward roster comprised of these guys (Sheary, Rust, Wilson, Kuhnhackl, Sundqvist) sound like a roster that's going to score a bunch of goals. I don't see any of those guys topping 10-15 goals in a season right now.

I agree, however I don't see us getting any UFA's of significance. Frankly, I don't want them offering a big money deal to an aging UFA like Ladd.

Who do you have in mind?
- madmike71

Vesey is #1 on my list, but I believe he is high on everyone's.


Jussi is a player I always wanted back for Malkin, he was money with him. Realistically, I don't think we could get him without an overpayment, due to not having a comparable piece to trade for him since we'd need to shed cap space.

But its not like any big LW players are coming off deals... so its gonna be a hockey trade and then we are playing the guessing game of the player's value to the team, and what we could trade for him.

Makes me wish Tampa Bay was in need of a goalie, with Bishop having only 1 year left. I'd be humping a trade idea of a Murray (with or without Kuni) for Drouin.
- Guile

Drouin looked nasty!

Seriously though....that deal kills 2 birds with 1 stone. Shed cap, get a haul for Murray, still have a good G in net.

Drouin looked nasty!

Seriously though....that deal kills 2 birds with 1 stone. Shed cap, get a haul for Murray, still have a good G in net.
- sammy87

Then I will give you the task of breaking Tampa's backup's kneecaps... so they will want Murray.

Good luck, Godspeed.

Then I will give you the task of breaking Tampa's backup's kneecaps... so they will want Murray.

Good luck, Godspeed.
- Guile

Jaden Schwartz if a RFA and the Blues need a shakeup. Elliott and Allen are UFA's and RFA's next year.

A lot of talk about our forward depth. These WBS guys did an amazing job playing their roles for us last year. But does a team with literally half the forward roster comprised of these guys (Sheary, Rust, Wilson, Kuhnhackl, Sundqvist) sound like a roster that's going to score a bunch of goals. I don't see any of those guys topping 10-15 goals in a season right now.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Wilson seems like most likely to score 15+ goals. He was leading the AHL in goals when he was called up and scored at a 17 goal pace in the NHL....small sample size but he went to the dirty areas

Jaden Schwartz if a RFA and the Blues need a shakeup. Elliott and Allen are UFA's and RFA's next year.
- sammy87

Hes gonna command about 4-5 a year, scoring 25, then 28 before an injury. We'd have to shed cap again for that.


Gotta find a prospect/ELC player who is ready to make the jump, and hope he holds it with Sid or Malkin, unless we are trading Fluery. Murray trade is easier to do due to the desire of him, but money wise even harder.

Wilson seems like most likely to score 15+ goals. He was leading the AHL in goals when he was called up and scored at a 17 goal pace in the NHL....small sample size but he went to the dirty areas
- willi

Agree. But do we want to have a championship caliber roster, one predicated on offense, littered with forwards that "might" score double digit goals?

Agree. But do we want to have a championship caliber roster, one predicated on offense, littered with forwards that "might" score double digit goals?
- YouMeAndDupuis9

If we are going to keep Dumo and Maatta... gotta have some cheap players somewhere.

Jaden Schwartz if a RFA and the Blues need a shakeup. Elliott and Allen are UFA's and RFA's next year.
- sammy87

Jake Allen is a really good young goalie with promise and Jaden Schwartz is going to be an elite two way forward as soon as next year. They won't part with such a piece for a marginal increase in goal.

Drug test day... Anyone suggesting trading Murray yesterday will be asked to piss in a cup. This is how the cap should work. You replace guys who are older and cost more with guys who are younger and have high ceilings!!! You don't trade a guy that's learning while winning a Stanley Cup as a rookie...
- lloyd095

If you can trade Murray and land a top 6 pick that would give you a top line winger, it's worth it. CGY would be/is highly interested in Murray, maybe potential 3 way deal w/CBJ or EDM?

to PIT: #3, #65 (from CBJ)
to CBJ: #6, Pouliot
to CGY: Murray, #55 (from PIT)

or

to PIT: #4, #63, #91 (both from EDM)
to EDM: #6, Pouliot
to CGY: Murray, #55 (from PIT)

This lands either Puljajarvi or Tkachuk, and barring they flop, a top line winger for the next decade. PIT still has Fleury, who has at least 2-3 more good years in him, Jarry in the minors who needs 1-2 more years. This is best of win-now and win-later, and doesn't come with the risk of Murray flopping and getting nothing of significance in return. Cap space isn't an issue with the 5% increase, and Pouliot also doesn't need to be retained at the expansion draft (he has good potential but another down year and PIT won't protect him and likely lose him for nothing to LAS).

CGY gets their goalie of the future and EDM/CBJ get a young puck mover with good potential for dropping back 2-3 spots and 1-2 mid round picks.

If we are going to keep Dumo and Maatta... gotta have some cheap players somewhere.
- Guile

I agree...big part of why last year was so successful. But it might be "too many" cheap/depth type guys that don't score much. I dont see many even strength goals from any winger besides Kessel, tbh.

I think we need another scorer.

Oh, random thought since i just noticed... Kevin Porter... aka, Vanilla Spaling 2.0 for 1/4 the cost.

Think we keep him for depth at near the same cost, ex 600-650k?