Oh, he absolutely was, especially in 09/10. He and Lappy (and Powe/Nodl) were the best 4th line we had since Otto/Podein/Klatt. But those were "elite" 4th lines, not the norm.
- jmatchett383

We can agree on this forsure. Admittingly, I didn't even want Blair Betts at first because he was a Ranger and he broke our streak of not allowing a shorty on game 82 during 08/09 but I quickly saw his value the following season. It didn't matter who was on Betts' wings, he was the straw that stird the drink. Carcillo, Lappy and Powe were interchangeable. Heck, Powe was an unknown fourth line rookie we could trust on thw PK.

Daniel Sprong #4
- aightwebang17

I don't get it either. He didn't even have Ghost in his top 100 to start the year

(frank) milbury. i knew he would blame mason for that goal. sure, he could have cleared the zone, but he didn't get a ton on it and it came off the glass, the puck stayed in and he got beaten by a great shot. he might have tried reversing on his backhand but there was a chance it would have been blocked by the forechecker. it was the right move. it happens.

like a dman has never failed to clear the zone before. like a player has never beaten a fan with a shoe before. (frank) you, Richardface.
- hammarby31

having 5 guys on the ice may have helped

There was a good article on Sons of Penn about trying to get Jordan Neal in the lineup. They looked at potential players to come out of the rotation and be a healthy scratch. Laughton is an easy target because he can smoothly go down to the Phantoms, but all stats points towards Umberger.

Even last year I feel as though some people were puzzled as to why Umberger is never a healthy scratch. Now it's a new coach and Umberger always seems to get playing time. Why are coaches and staff so high on him? He seems slow and doesn't really add anything, to my naked eye.

Players come together all the time, after a hit. That doesn't mean there is going to be a fight. It's the level of aggressiveness by the player coming over to defend a teammate, that earns the instigator. Whether anyone feels that is right or wrong, that's how it is called.
- MJL

Okay then, please explain what level of aggressiveness is required to earn an instigator?

Lets use a simple 1-10 scale and use Simmonds and Miller as references.

The instigator call is very subjective. Get over it.

So can Weal replace Vandevelde or Umberger yet? Vandevelde missed a great chance on that pass from White in the 2nd period.
- J35Bacher

rather have VDV in than RJ. at least VDV kills penalties. Read-Weal-Laughton

That shot/pass to VDV was a thing of beauty, too bad the moron lead the shot instead of just letting the puck hit his stick and bounce right into the net.....
- Tomfan365

I don't wanna be unfair but I'm just not a Vandevelde guy. Beautiful pass by White but I wasn't as upset with that miss as I was with the blind pass on the rush.

Players come together all the time, after a hit. That doesn't mean there is going to be a fight. It's the level of aggressiveness by the player coming over to defend a teammate, that earns the instigator. Whether anyone feels that is right or wrong, that's how it is called.
- MJL

Clearly, Miller's intent was to say, "Excuse me, Mr. Schenn could you please not do that again?" He had no intention of retaliating with a fight.

Okay then, please explain what level of aggressiveness is required to earn an instigator?

Lets use a simple 1-10 scale and use Simmonds and Miller as references.
- YuenglingJagr

Not reality, it's a judgement call on the ice. You saw both plays, clear difference.

Daniel Sprong #4
- aightwebang17

I got rid of insider after a long string of things ESPN did to annoy me, but I would like to know why Werenski was ranked ahead of Provorov, if my assumption that he is ranked higher is true

Clearly, Miller's intent was to say, "Excuse me, Mr. Schenn could you please not do that again?" He had no intention of retaliating with a fight.
- jmatchett383

Clearly, we can see Miller's actions, and how he went about it. It was smartly done, to avoid the instigator penalty.
I think the rule sucks personally, and it's far too punitive.

Not reality, it's a judgement call on the ice. You saw both plays, clear difference.
- MJL

He directed his path towards Schenn as a result of a hit earlier in the game. A fight resulted. That is instigation.

Tap dance around it however you like, it's what you do best. I believe it was instigation, you and the refs don't. Let's ask our friend Paul Stewart.

while we're on bad rules, the automatic delay of game penalty for putting a puck over the glass was proven awful again last night.

Clearly, Miller's intent was to say, "Excuse me, Mr. Schenn could you please not do that again?" He had no intention of retaliating with a fight.
- jmatchett383

A fair hit sir, please kindly refrain from doing so again. cheerio

And this is why I don't get the instigator penalty. Per the rulebook:

Instigator
-
An instigator of an altercation shall be a player who by his
actions or demeanor demonstrates any/some of the following criteria:
distance traveled; gloves off first; first punch thrown; menacing
attitude or posture; verbal instigation or threats; conduct in retaliation
to a prior game (or season) incident; obvious retribution for a previous
incident in the game or season

I believe that Miller fit at least one, if not all, of the following criteria.
- jmatchett383

Per the rulebook, I know change my stance.

A fair hit sir, please kindly refrain from doing so again. cheerio
- YuenglingJagr

"Let's part ways with a friendly handshake and share a sundae after the game."

He directed his path towards Schenn as a result of a hit earlier in the game. A fight resulted. That is instigation.

Tap dance around it however you like, it's what you do best. I believe it was instigation, you and the refs don't. Let's ask our friend Paul Stewart.
- jmatchett383

So your saying that every time a player comes over to a player that just laid a good hit on a teammate there is a fight? They never come together and just yak at each other, and have a little push and shoving?

There was a good article on Sons of Penn about trying to get Jordan Neal in the lineup. They looked at potential players to come out of the rotation and be a healthy scratch. Laughton is an easy target because he can smoothly go down to the Phantoms, but all stats points towards Umberger.

Even last year I feel as though some people were puzzled as to why Umberger is never a healthy scratch. Now it's a new coach and Umberger always seems to get playing time. Why are coaches and staff so high on him? He seems slow and doesn't really add anything, to my naked eye.
- Neomike77

Umberger has been a healthy scratch twice this year.

http://articles.philly.co...t-laughton-brayden-schenn

http://articles.philly.co...t-laughton-brayden-schenn

When he does play he gets 10 minutes a game.

It's the level of aggressiveness by the player coming over to defend a teammate, that earns the instigator. Whether anyone feels that is right or wrong, that's how it is called.
- MJL

What level of aggressiveness was used? Did simmonds have a mean look on his face?

while we're on bad rules, the automatic delay of game penalty for putting a puck over the glass was proven awful again last night.
- BulliesPhan87

That rule needs to be changed to the player has to have clear possession of the puck first, rather than just a deflection, or chop at the puck.

Whereas Simmonds attacks the offending player, last night's Bruin skated up to Schenn and gave a mild crosscheck. Schenn knew he had to fight and even dropped his gloves first.

I was yelling for an instigator at first until I saw the replay, then I totally understood why there was no instigator penalty called.

So your saying that every time a player comes over to a player that just laid a good hit on a teammate there is a fight? They never come together and just yak at each other, and have a little push and shoving?
- MJL

I never said that, please stop putting words into my mouth.

I said, in this particular instance, that he did so and a fight ensued because of it. That would qualify as "conduct in retaliation to a prior game (or season) incident."

"Let's part ways with a friendly handshake and share a sundae after the game."
- jmatchett383

I see you have dropped your glove whilst I stand here expressing my displeasure for your hit in an non aggressive manner. We shall have a duel. Have at thee!

What level of aggressiveness was used? Did simmonds have a mean look on his face?
- YuenglingJagr

Simmonds just wanted to ask him if he likes the latest episode of The Bachelor.