@ESPN_Burnside: Most of the news surrounding the Flyers this season has been the ongoing work by GM Ron Hextall in digging the Flyers out of salary-cap hell.

hyperbole and overblown.


@ESPNJoeyMac: In past seasons, any time we've discussed the Flyers it always comes down to goaltending....I think it'll come down to goaltending again. Michal Neuvirth and Steve Mason are a solid pair between the pipes, even though their records may not indicate that, so to Craig's point, I agree that the Flyers are not there yet. Unless Neuvirth or Mason can step up and carry the team themselves the rest of the way.

this whole quote is

jfc.
- hammarby31

Are there Corsi stats on how many times Mason and Neuvirth have been hung out to dry on the PK and jsut in general by poor defense? They've both been very solid all year and are the reason we have the record we do. Could have lost a lot more games if they haven't made some amazing saves.

MJL why did you delete your post? I was about to destroy that one, too.

EDIT, here it comes.

You don't know what would have happened if Schenn elected not to fight. Maybe Schenn says no, Miller gets pissed and goes Bertuzzi on Schenn. Maybe Schenn tries to skate away, but Miller grabs Schenn and punches him a few times and then a Fight happens. This is the point, it's all theoretical. And what do you always say, you don't like to deal in theoretical? Just only when it fits your view points?



- VladDrag

You're right, I don't know what would of happened if Schenn elected not to fight. I wasn't asking you what might have happened, I was actually asking your opinion on what actually DID happen. So it's nonsense for you to respond that I only like it when it fits my view, because there is nothing theoretical about a players ACTUAL actions before the fight happened.

What he did directly before the fight, caused the fight to happen. By the letter of the law,
"An instigator of an altercation shall be a player who by his actions or demeanor demonstrates any/some of the following criteria distance traveled; gloves off first; first punch thrown; menacing attitude or posture; verbal instigation or threats; conduct in retaliation to a prior game (or season) incident; obvious retribution for a previous incident in the game or season."

He should be considered an instigator.
- VladDrag

In my opinion, Miller's actions on the play, did not warrant an instigation penalty, for the reasons I outlined in previous posts.

This is also just one guy's opinion. I don't think there is any GM who would trade Provorov for Sprong.
- PhillySportsGuy

Yeah, Pronman's like Button, he bases his rankings more on his own observations, more than just polling a bunch of scouts and aggregating their opinions.

Sanheim was in the top-50 last season right? It's interesting how everybody's jumped off his bandwagon after a few people started to question his progress w/o the puck.

You don't know what would have happened if Schenn elected not to fight. Maybe Schenn says no, Miller gets pissed and goes Bertuzzi on Schenn. Maybe Schenn tries to skate away, but Miller grabs Schenn and punches him a few times and then a Fight happens. This is the point, it's all theoretical. And what do you always say, you don't like to deal in theoretical? Just only when it fits your view points?

What he did directly before the fight, caused the fight to happen. By the letter of the law,
"An instigator of an altercation shall be a player who by his actions or demeanor demonstrates any/some of the following criteria distance traveled; gloves off first; first punch thrown; menacing attitude or posture; verbal instigation or threats; conduct in retaliation to a prior game (or season) incident; obvious retribution for a previous incident in the game or season."

He should be considered an instigator.
- VladDrag

agree. it's really pretty obvious.

I'd be happy, but also disappointed. Pitkanen was a player that ultimately fell well short of his draft position.
- MJL

2002 was a pretty crappy draft class, tho.

If Joni had gone in 2003, he might have fallen into the teens.

MJL why did you delete your post? I was about to destroy that one, too.

EDIT, here it comes.
- VladDrag

I dont know what I missed but this sounds like something from Deadwood, yay new movie soon, so please continue.

1. Strome (ARZ)
2. Marner (TOR)
3. Nylander (TOR)
4. Sprong (Penis)
5. Werenski (CBJ)
6. Barzal (NYI)
7. Buchnevich (NYR)
8. Fiala (NSH)
9. Vrana (WSH)
10. Aho (CAR)
11. Rantanen (COL)
12.Kamenev (NSH)
13. Petan (WPG)
14. Kaprizov (MIN)
15. Kempe (LA)
16. Meier (SJ)
17. Provorov (FLYERS)
18. Chabot (OTT)
19. Zacha (NJ)
20. White (OTT)
21. Bjorkstrand (CBJ)
22. Point (TB)
23. Konecny (FLYERS)
24. Crouse (FLA)
25. Beauvillier (NYI)
26. Kapanen (TOR)
27. Ritchie (ANA)
28. Honka (DAL)
29. Barbashev (STL)
30. Svechnikov (DET)
31. Boeser (VAN)
32. Milano (CBJ)
33. Connor (WPG)
34. Hicketts (DET)
35. Holmstrom (DET)
36. Schmaltz (CHI)
37. Lindblom (FLYERS)
38. DeAngelo (TB)
39. Eriksson EK (MIN)
40. Saarijarvi (DET)
41. Hudon (MON)
42. Kylington (CAL)
43. McCarron (MON)
44. Brown (TOR)
45. Dal Colle (NYI)
46. Bigras (COL)
47. Roy (SJ)
48. Mantha (DET)
49. Guryanov (DAL)
50. Perlini (ARZ)

Honorable Mentions: Carrick (CAR), Dermott (TOR), Fleury (CAR), Goldobin (SJ), Juulsen (MON), Lindell (DAL), Merkley (ARZ), Morrissey (WPG), Sanheim (FLYERS), Walman (STL)

Goalies

1. Juuse Saros, Nashville Predators
2. Ilya Samsonov, Washington Capitals
3. Thatcher Demko, Vancouver Canucks
4. Ilya Sorokin, New York Islanders
5. Matt Murray, Pittsburgh Penguins
6. Felix Sandstrom, Philadelphia Flyers
7. Jon Gillies, Calgary Flames
8. Mackenzie Blackwood, New Jersey Devils
9. Malcolm Subban, Boston Bruins
10. Anthony Stolarz, Philadelphia Flyers
- PhillySportsGuy

How many skaters on this list are from the 2013 draft?

2002 was a pretty crappy draft class, tho.

If Joni had gone in 2003, he might have fallen into the teens.
- Tomahawk

2002 was a fairly weak first round, but 2003 was arguably the best draft class ever.

2002 was a pretty crappy draft class, tho.

If Joni had gone in 2003, he might have fallen into the teens.
- Tomahawk

My view is that I think this team already has a defenseman that is going to be a top offensive defenseman in this league, in Gostisbehere. I think they need at least one of Provorov or Sanheim to develop into one of those 2 way top pairing minute eaters that every team needs.

Yeah, Pronman's like Button, he bases his rankings more on his own observations, more than just polling a bunch of scouts and aggregating their opinions.

Sanheim was in the top-50 last season right? It's interesting how everybody's jumped off his bandwagon after a few people started to question his progress w/o the puck.
- Tomahawk

he's going to be an awesome LW

Are there Corsi stats on how many times Mason and Neuvirth have been hung out to dry on the PK and jsut in general by poor defense? They've both been very solid all year and are the reason we have the record we do. Could have lost a lot more games if they haven't made some amazing saves.
- Tomfan365

it's a (frank)ing joke is what it is. btw, neuvirth's record is pretty damn good at 9-5-2, and he's got excellent stats as well. if you've watched him play, the eye test is obvious. they've done their job, they will continue to do their job. the team in front of them is suspect defensively, they haven't gotten much goal support, and their special teams are poor. it's just more lazy narrative - blame the goaltending - or - it's all on them to save the day and for the team to win, and when they don't it's still always their fault, regardless of everything else.

like i said. (frank)ing joke.

Is there anyone you feel, or have read about, in this draft that has potential to play in the NHL next year?
- VladDrag

Laine and Puljujarvi probably... since they're already excelling against adults.

Outside of those two, there's no shortage of other guys w/ legit NHL builds that teams might be tempted to throw in right away.

I'm not drafting for that quality, tho.

it's a (frank)ing joke is what it is. btw, neuvirth's record is pretty damn good at 9-5-2, and he's got excellent stats as well. if you've watched him play, the eye test is obvious. they've done their job, they will continue to do their job. the team in front of them is suspect defensively, they haven't gotten much goal support, and their special teams are poor. it's just more lazy narrative - blame the goaltending - or - it's all on them to save the day and for the team to win, and when they don't it's still always their fault, regardless of everything else.

like i said. (frank)ing joke.
- hammarby31

This sounds like it was written by someone with a bias towards goalies.

This sounds like it was written by someone with a bias towards goalies.
- jmatchett383

earning your stripes today.

earning your stripes today.
- hammarby31

I have my sights set of Major Sarcasm, or possible General Sarcasm.

I dont know what I missed but this sounds like something from Deadwood, yay new movie soon, so please continue.
- opeth_pa

Whoa, I missed that bit of news.

That really is big, if true.

it's a (frank)ing joke is what it is. btw, neuvirth's record is pretty damn good at 9-5-2, and he's got excellent stats as well. if you've watched him play, the eye test is obvious. they've done their job, they will continue to do their job. the team in front of them is suspect defensively, they haven't gotten much goal support, and their special teams are poor. it's just more lazy narrative - blame the goaltending - or - it's all on them to save the day and for the team to win, and when they don't it's still always their fault, regardless of everything else.

like i said. (frank)ing joke.
- hammarby31

Sure is. See: Mike Millbury

You're right, I don't know what would of happened if Schenn elected not to fight. I wasn't asking you what might have happened, I was actually asking your opinion on what actually DID happen. So it's nonsense for you to respond that I only like it when it fits my view, because there is nothing theoretical about a players ACTUAL actions before the fight happened.

In my opinion, Miller's actions on the play, did not warrant an instigation penalty, for the reasons I outlined in previous posts.
- MJL

Let's get down to it. Part of your argument on this play was an instigation pentalty should not be called, which I personally agree with for reasons that I stated a while ago, BUT the letter of the law state that it is, which you seem to ignore.

Answer these questions:
Did Miller travel a distance?
Did Miller respond in retaliation to a prior game incident?

If you say yes to either one of those, then he should have gotten a penalty by the letter of the law. Even if you don't, you're wrong and the answer is still he should have gotten a penalty by the letter of the law because he did travel a distance and he did respond to a prior game incident.

ALSO, Your contention was if there wasn't a fight, then there wouldn't be a penalty called which you can't say to be fact because you don't know what would have happened.

It is also different part of the discussion that you are offering now. Since you are not sticking to the discussion, why should I?

Hextall confirms Ghost back in the lineup Saturday.

I have my sights set of Major Sarcasm, or possible General Sarcasm.
- jmatchett383

nice to see you aim high. what's your title again? i forgot.

This sounds like it was written by someone with a bias towards goalies.
- jmatchett383

We should really only be paying attention to Mason's prospect rankings

he's going to be an awesome LW
- Marc D

Luca Sbisa knows what you mean.

Laine and Puljujarvi probably... since they're already excelling against adults.

Outside of those two, there's no shortage of other guys w/ legit NHL builds that teams might be tempted to throw in right away.

I'm not drafting for that quality, tho.
- Tomahawk

Of course not. One would hope the Flyers are not either.

Sure is. See: Mike Millbury
- Tomfan365

i'd rather not see that tub of blowhard lard. how he has a job is beyond me. worst gm in nhl history.