Adams and Sill aren't good AHL players that get killed in possession and are liabilities every minute they are on the ice. Booth won't produce offensively, but at least he won't get outscored horrifically like those two either.
- jfkst1

Oh, its common sense time, Im outy

Ryan Wilson: Toronto Forward To Think About Not Named Winnick + Pens Special Teams Woes
- Ryan_Wilson

Did I spot some compliments to Fleury in a blog of yours?

So, is this Adam Gretz guy arguing that the Penguins won't win the Stanley Cup this season because their PP is too good?

Booth and a 7th for your 6th or 5th (example)


Booth for a Salary dump and a poopty pick or bottom prospect



not like your moving mountains, at worst he takes up a contract spot and eats popcorn
- PinkSock

Crap and a Toronto 7th for Crap and a Pittsburgh 5th/6th

How does that help the Penguins?

Crap and a Toronto 7th for Crap and a Pittsburgh 5th/6th

How does that help the Penguins?
- jmatchett383

Zach Sill never sees the light of day again for the cost of about 550K more in salary cap.

Having to dish out a pick seems stupid though, I doubt they want more than a bag of pucks for Booth.

Also, I think his shots amount are hinting that he is capable of scoring more, just some bad puck luck as well.

So, is this Adam Gretz guy arguing that the Penguins won't win the Stanley Cup this season because their PP is too good?
- jmatchett383

He came up with a formula for certain common characteristics among the last 10 cup finalists. PK was one of the components. PP was a random variable among Cup finalists.

The hatred for Sutter is unreal. He is a bottom 6 guy period. Look around the league....you dont have 3rd centers lighting up the scoreboard. I watch almost every Pens game and i just dont see what all the complaints are about. he has lapses as does every NHL player but IMO he is a solid two way center. He isnt a shut down guy and hes not a perennial 20 goal scorer but hes a serviceable 3rd line center. When you have the contracts of 87/71/58 you have to make do and take lesser value on your lower end guys. I dont think theres an upgrade to be had over Sutter.
- did109

Let it go. It will be denied adamantly, but some fans will never forgive him for not being Jordan Staal. They'll cry and whine for him to be moved down, only to start bashing the guy they replace him with for not being Jordan Staal (which, again, they will adamantly deny is the case).

He came up with a formula for certain common characteristics among the last 10 cup finalists. PK was one of the components. PP was a random variable among Cup finalists.
- jfkst1

Well, he said no Cup winner the last 7 seasons had a PP% higher than 16th. The Penguins are at 8th right now. So, based on his "common characteristics" we can either deduce that either:
a) having a top-15 PP% means you can't win a Cup, or

b) every Cup winner is unique and the track record of teams in past seasons has no bearing of chances of success this season.

Let it go. It will be denied adamantly, but some fans will never forgive him for not being Jordan Staal. They'll cry and whine for him to be moved down, only to start bashing the guy they replace him with for not being Jordan Staal (which, again, they will adamantly deny is the case).
- jmatchett383

Aside from faceoff skills, Sutter is better suited to be a winger, in my opinion, with how he plays and his shot.
I think they should be trying Spaling as the 3rd line center, and Sutter on his wing. Just "trying" it out. HCMJ has tried just about everything else, and I don't see this as an unreasonable suggestion.

Aside from faceoff skills, Sutter is better suited to be a winger, in my opinion, with how he plays and his shot.
I think they should be trying Spaling as the 3rd line center, and Sutter on his wing. Just "trying" it out. HCMJ has tried just about everything else, and I don't see this as an unreasonable suggestion.
- Guile

It's worth a shot if it's just not working. But I will venture a guess that, should Sutter be moved out of the 3C spot, the next guy in line (Spaling?) will get berated for being "a horrible 3rd line center" within 10 games because he's not Jordan Staal.

Booth and a 7th for your 6th or 5th (example)


Booth for a Salary dump and a poopty pick or bottom prospect



not like your moving mountains, at worst he takes up a contract spot and eats popcorn
- PinkSock

My basic objection is he's a brittle player who isn't likely an upgrade in terms of what they need. There are better deals that can be had for middle/low tier prospects that will bring more benefit. I don't necessarily hate the deal, I just think there are better ones to be had.

It's worth a shot if it's just not working. But I will venture a guess that, should Sutter be moved out of the 3C spot, the next guy in line (Spaling?) will get berated for being "a horrible 3rd line center" within 10 games because he's not Jordan Staal.
- jmatchett383

But for costing 2.2 million, that is more acceptable in a "bad" 3rd line center. Sutter gets extra flak for holding out to get more money, and playing sub par this season.

Upgrades are on the roster now. Spaling would be a better 3C than Sutter. Sutter is a 4th liner paid like a 2nd liner. Name a playoff contender with a worse 3C than Sutter.
- jfkst1

Im taking Sutter over Dom Moore, Steve Ott, Rikkell and Kuznetsov any day...especially in the playoffs. Dom Moore is borderline because he always shows up come playoff time and always seems to play a critical role but frankly if you look across the board at all teams third line centers minus a few exceptions are very similar in nature. I dont diagree with Spaling but again im not certain hes an upgrade either in what youre looking for in a 3rd line center.

Aside from faceoff skills, Sutter is better suited to be a winger, in my opinion, with how he plays and his shot.
I think they should be trying Spaling as the 3rd line center, and Sutter on his wing. Just "trying" it out. HCMJ has tried just about everything else, and I don't see this as an unreasonable suggestion.
- Guile

I dont think thats a terrible idea. My only point is, on the trade market there is no upgrade to Sutter available to play bottom 6 minutes. The Pens will rely on their top 2 lines to carry them in the playoffs and when you are paying the kind of money they are for those 6 they should. They have 2 of the top 10 talents in the world....arguably 1 and 2 at certain times. The Penguins will win or lose on the shoulders of 87 and 71 and to think any different is foolish.

Booth for sill

Any advanced stats on taking penalties in the 1st place. I can see a total number for season which appears to be 2nd highest in league. Would want to look at a more current sample, when penalties are taken, where on ice, which player has which percentage of total (Downie has a ton), type of penalty etc...

I think the leaders of team are still taking too many penalties and probably at bad times. Crosby's trip on Toews and Letang asking for one late really annoys me. Are they going to maintain their poise in the playoffs? Does a further look into the PIM issue discredit my concerns?
- wizard-of-croz

They have been shorthanded 196 times this season, second most in the league.

This will be the first time in 4 seasons that they've been short handed more than on the power play. I don't know if that is good or bad... the last couple seasons of "turn the other cheek" haven't really worked out all that well.

They'll need to curb that for the playoffs a bit I'd think.

Well, he said no Cup winner the last 7 seasons had a PP% higher than 16th. The Penguins are at 8th right now. So, based on his "common characteristics" we can either deduce that either:
a) having a top-15 PP% means you can't win a Cup, or

b) every Cup winner is unique and the track record of teams in past seasons has no bearing of chances of success this season.
- jmatchett383

I just read it as the PP% isn't all that important to winning in the grand scheme of things, but the PK% was.

I dont think thats a terrible idea. My only point is, on the trade market there is no upgrade to Sutter available to play bottom 6 minutes. The Pens will rely on their top 2 lines to carry them in the playoffs and when you are paying the kind of money they are for those 6 they should. They have 2 of the top 10 talents in the world....arguably 1 and 2 at certain times. The Penguins will win or lose on the shoulders of 87 and 71 and to think any different is foolish.
- did109

#29 will play a large role. Whether it's for good or bad is yet to be seen.

Well, he said no Cup winner the last 7 seasons had a PP% higher than 16th. The Penguins are at 8th right now. So, based on his "common characteristics" we can either deduce that either:
a) having a top-15 PP% means you can't win a Cup, or

b) every Cup winner is unique and the track record of teams in past seasons has no bearing of chances of success this season.
- jmatchett383

Here's his article:
http://www.cbssports.com/...ley-cup-recipe-in-2014-15

I dont think thats a terrible idea. My only point is, on the trade market there is no upgrade to Sutter available to play bottom 6 minutes. The Pens will rely on their top 2 lines to carry them in the playoffs and when you are paying the kind of money they are for those 6 they should. They have 2 of the top 10 talents in the world....arguably 1 and 2 at certain times. The Penguins will win or lose on the shoulders of 87 and 71 and to think any different is foolish.
- did109

Well, I think that Downie and Spaling are solid bottom 6 options. Comeau technically is as well, but hes hit that synergy to earn a top 6 spot.

For the prior seasons of the penguins, we went out and got 3 bottom 6 gems. Goc was as well, but the staff didn't like him apparently. Sutter and Adams were already here.

Let it go. It will be denied adamantly, but some fans will never forgive him for not being Jordan Staal. They'll cry and whine for him to be moved down, only to start bashing the guy they replace him with for not being Jordan Staal (which, again, they will adamantly deny is the case).
- jmatchett383

Perfectly stated.

They have been shorthanded 196 times this season, second most in the league.
- rival22

I blame this on every other team in the league having a goon-filled roster.

I just read it as the PP% isn't all that important to winning in the grand scheme of things, but the PK% was.
- rival22

Defense beats Offense more often than naught in playoffs for sports.

The hatred for Sutter is unreal. He is a bottom 6 guy period. Look around the league....you dont have 3rd centers lighting up the scoreboard. I watch almost every Pens game and i just dont see what all the complaints are about. he has lapses as does every NHL player but IMO he is a solid two way center. He isnt a shut down guy and hes not a perennial 20 goal scorer but hes a serviceable 3rd line center. When you have the contracts of 87/71/58 you have to make do and take lesser value on your lower end guys. I dont think theres an upgrade to be had over Sutter.
- did109

Stop making sense when there's pitchforks and torches about.

Sad thing is, win tonight and these Penguins are in 1st place in their division, a couple points out of the #1 seed in the East. Even with all the injuries, even with the last 4 weeks of inconsistent play.

No wonder other fanbases hate us.

They have been shorthanded 196 times this season, second most in the league.

This will be the first time in 4 seasons that they've been short handed more than on the power play. I don't know if that is good or bad... the last couple seasons of "turn the other cheek" haven't really worked out all that well.

They'll need to curb that for the playoffs a bit I'd think.
- rival22

They most certainly have to. They arent built to play that way and they cant sustain a series that way.