James Neal ?
- willi

Not brought in for Malkin. Very special circumstances were met which saw Geno play with Kunitz and Neal.
Malkin has repeatedly had waiver pickups on his wing which were then placed back on waivers. Not the team ahl affiliate, waivers. Who lead the Penguins in scoring most of the season?

That's perfectly fine. What happens if you go another 3-4 years and you are continually getting bounced by, as most people on here have called them, "lesser teams?" Do you still keep plugging along the same way?
- jmatchett383

Yes, a solid 4 lines have to be in place. Not just two and half a third. 2 of the best players in the game on the same team on good deals (3 if you count Letang) is nothing that you can't work with. 3rd and 4th don't have to score nightly, just keep the other team in check, generate chances and put some points up every other night (3rd line). That of course is hard to do when we are playing Adams/Sill. I have no clue why Farnham or Rust aren't up instead of both of them, but it probably has to do with cap. Bortelli magic.

Not brought in for Malkin. Very special circumstances were met which saw Geno play with Kunitz and Neal.
Malkin has repeatedly had waiver pickups on his wing which were then placed back on waivers. Not the team ahl affiliate, waivers. Who lead the Penguins in scoring most of the season?
- Johnny Wrath

Richard Tanrstrom?

Yes, a solid 4 lines have to be in place. Not just two and half a third. 2 of the best players in the game on the same team on good deals (3 if you count Letang) is nothing that you can't work with. 3rd and 4th don't have to score nightly, just keep the other team in check, generate chances and put some points up every other night (3rd line). That of course is hard to do when we are playing Adams/Sill. I have no clue why Farnham or Rust aren't up instead of both of them, but it probably has to do with cap. Bortelli magic.
- znagle

So, let's recap.

If you have 2 of the best players in league (sorry, Letang is good, but not one of "the best in the league"), and go close to a decade without winning a game past the second round with those 2 guys leading your team, your plan is to stick to the status quo and keep trying.

Are you familiar with the definition of insanity?

Well then, since this IS the salary cap era, maybe the high-priced 2-headed monster is not a successful model (defined success by winning a Stanley Cup every 5 years or so).
- jmatchett383

You could easily come to that conclusion, but I have a feeling that Chicago is going to be able to remain competitive after next year and be in the running for a cup with Kane's and Toew's new contracts because they are simply better at finding the next young guys that will fit into their system. They could end up struggling just as much as the Pens if not more since their contracts are higher than Crosby's and Malkin's but I just don't see it. But I also believe the Pens will get better in the coming years as well, as the cap rises and Sid's and Geno's contracts take up less and less percentage of the cap. But if the Pens keep trading away draft picks and never have anything in the farm system to bring up and have on cheap entry level deals that can contribute to the team then it will be very difficult.

Well then, since this IS the salary cap era, maybe the high-priced 2-headed monster is not a successful model (defined success by winning a Stanley Cup every 5 years or so).
- jmatchett383

is 5 years really a fair amount of time?

This my back of the envelope thinking...

assume a 60% chance of winning each separate playoff series. i think that's a reasonable number since the better teams have winning percentages around 60.

there are 4 series to win the cup. .6^4 is 13%. 13% is about 1 out of 8.

pens have been good for 8 seasons now. They have their 1 cup.

Season 9 now. Now is when i think we can really start... for lack of a better word... deserving/expecting another cup.

Probably too analytical and weird a mindset for most.

Doesn't mean i'm not still p***ed about the bad series they've had like last year vs the Rangers.

The Mark Madden proposal was Malkin to MTL for Galanchyuk and Max P +1st

Malkin = 9.5 for 53 pts
MTL Players = 7.7 for 84 pts

Use the 1st for an established 3C stud. You still have almost 2 mil to spend elsewhere.
- sammy87

forgot to add into the pens side the points lost for the playing time given to the second MTL player. I.e. Comeau.. had he not been injured he would average around 30'is points now... so even numbers there... slightly higher cap for pens.. but have a man that can dominate the game like no other... stll sticking with malkin

Well then, since this IS the salary cap era, maybe the high-priced 2-headed monster is not a successful model (defined success by winning a Stanley Cup every 5 years or so).
- jmatchett383

you will find out soon when it comes time to resign jake

Not brought in for Malkin. Very special circumstances were met which saw Geno play with Kunitz and Neal.
Malkin has repeatedly had waiver pickups on his wing which were then placed back on waivers. Not the team ahl affiliate, waivers. Who lead the Penguins in scoring most of the season?
- Johnny Wrath

Greiss? wait... scoring for the pens... nevermind

is 5 years really a fair amount of time?

This my back of the envelope thinking...

assume a 60% chance of winning each separate playoff series. i think that's a reasonable number since the better teams have winning percentages around 60.

there are 4 series to win the cup. .6^4 is 13%. 13% is about 1 out of 8.

pens have been good for 8 seasons now. They have their 1 cup.

Season 9 now. Now is when i think we can really start... for lack of a better word... deserving/expecting another cup.

Probably too analytical and weird a mindset for most.

Doesn't mean i'm not still p***ed about the bad series they've had like last year vs the Rangers.
- poopmouth

Given the hissy fits this thread throws about charts? Probably.

you will find out soon when it comes time to resign jake
- stayinthefnnet

7+ mil per, no doubt.

You could easily come to that conclusion, but I have a feeling that Chicago is going to be able to remain competitive after next year and be in the running for a cup with Kane's and Toew's new contracts because they are simply better at finding the next young guys that will fit into their system. They could end up struggling just as much as the Pens if not more since their contracts are higher than Crosby's and Malkin's but I just don't see it. But I also believe the Pens will get better in the coming years as well, as the cap rises and Sid's and Geno's contracts take up less and less percentage of the cap. But if the Pens keep trading away draft picks and never have anything in the farm system to bring up and have on cheap entry level deals that can contribute to the team then it will be very difficult.
- PensFan1103

You bring up an interesting point. The Penguins are currently paying (correct me if I'm wrong here) Crosby, the best player in the NHL, $8.787M per season, and Letang, their cornerstone, #1 defenseman, $7.5M per season. Now, theoretically, if the cap increases, the Penguins would have a lot of money to spend, and those cap hits become better deals.

So let's say the going rate for a top-line winger becomes $8M. Can the Penguins sell that this UFA winger is worth more than Letang, and only slightly less than Crosby? What if the going rate is MORE than Crosby is making?

Not sure where I'm going with this, but it would just be odd to pay a UFA with no ties to the team more than your stud defenseman and the best player in the game, the face of your franchise.

you will find out soon when it comes time to resign jake
- stayinthefnnet

Goodbye Grossmann, Coburn, Luke Schenn

Hello Morin, Ghostisbehere, Sanheim

So, let's recap.

If you have 2 of the best players in league (sorry, Letang is good, but not one of "the best in the league"), and go close to a decade without winning a game past the second round with those 2 guys leading your team, your plan is to stick to the status quo and keep trying.

Are you familiar with the definition of insanity?
- jmatchett383

I disagree about Letang. He's one of the best defenseman this year and has always been great (when not injured).

Anyways, we have a good top 6 right now this year and next if we can sign Comeau to a 2.5-3 million a year deal. Fleury is a good goalie and we have two great propsects that can replace Greiss next year, or we can play Zatkoff. Our defensive core is also set, sign either Martin or Hoff or an FA. BB will be back on a cheap deal too. Sundqvist might be ready as Kasperi might next year (AHL at least) We just need to tweak the bottom 6 a little more. Maybe we strike paydirt in the draft as well. Adams will be retired as well (thank god). We are in a good position with the cap next year, and with it rising the next two years (if it does, who knows) that give even more wiggle room to sign players.

Richard Tanrstrom?
- jmatchett383

Herb Brooks put him out on those power plays. I am not saying poop.

7+ mil per, no doubt.
- BulliesPhan87

yeah i would think a deal similar to bobby ryans.

Goodbye Grossmann, Coburn, Luke Schenn

Hello Morin, Ghostisbehere, Sanheim
- jmatchett383

if hexy will really say balls to the wall youth like that on Defense, then good for him.

i dont necessarily think it will be that easy.

You bring up an interesting point. The Penguins are currently paying (correct me if I'm wrong here) Crosby, the best player in the NHL, $8.787M per season, and Letang, their cornerstone, #1 defenseman, $7.5M per season. Now, theoretically, if the cap increases, the Penguins would have a lot of money to spend, and those cap hits become better deals.

So let's say the going rate for a top-line winger becomes $8M. Can the Penguins sell that this UFA winger is worth more than Letang, and only slightly less than Crosby? What if the going rate is MORE than Crosby is making?

Not sure where I'm going with this, but it would just be odd to pay a UFA with no ties to the team more than your stud defenseman and the best player in the game, the face of your franchise.
- jmatchett383

might be odd... but I believe when Crosby's deal at least was snuck in before the new cap rules it was understood that it was a possibility. He took less than he could to give pens that wiggle room. For all the complaints against the man... him putting personal tiptop finances over the team fielding a winning team isnt one of them. dont think he'd mind

is 5 years really a fair amount of time?

This my back of the envelope thinking...

assume a 60% chance of winning each separate playoff series. i think that's a reasonable number since the better teams have winning percentages around 60.

there are 4 series to win the cup. .6^4 is 13%. 13% is about 1 out of 8.

pens have been good for 8 seasons now. They have their 1 cup.

Season 9 now. Now is when i think we can really start... for lack of a better word... deserving/expecting another cup.

Probably too analytical and weird a mindset for most.

Doesn't mean i'm not still p***ed about the bad series they've had like last year vs the Rangers.
- poopmouth

In a vacuum, that's good math. But right now, the Penguins have won (by my count) 4 our of 9 playoff series. Most of them (aside from MAYBE the 12/13 Bruins) were series where the Penguins were heavy favorites going in (Tampa Bay, Montreal, Philadelphia, even the Rangers last year). They have not won one game past the second round in that span.

yeah i would think a deal similar to bobby ryans.
- stayinthefnnet

I'll take it.

if hexy will really say balls to the wall youth like that on Defense, then good for him.

i dont necessarily think it will be that easy.
- stayinthefnnet

He's said he won't rush those guys, so I don't think a mass youth movement is on the horizon just yet. Maybe Hextall's just putting on his poker face, though.

You bring up an interesting point. The Penguins are currently paying (correct me if I'm wrong here) Crosby, the best player in the NHL, $8.787M per season, and Letang, their cornerstone, #1 defenseman, $7.5M per season. Now, theoretically, if the cap increases, the Penguins would have a lot of money to spend, and those cap hits become better deals.

So let's say the going rate for a top-line winger becomes $8M. Can the Penguins sell that this UFA winger is worth more than Letang, and only slightly less than Crosby? What if the going rate is MORE than Crosby is making?

Not sure where I'm going with this, but it would just be odd to pay a UFA with no ties to the team more than your stud defenseman and the best player in the game, the face of your franchise.
- jmatchett383

These contracts only look good if you can plug the holes with cheap contracts. Once you get 5+ contracts worth 7+ the rest of your team sucks. They will look like bargains when 87 and 71 are in their early 30's. Cap is not going up as quickly as some think.

I'll take it.
- BulliesPhan87

yeah i dont blame you.

i think you sort of have to. i really dont think the flyers are far off. losing him, despite whatever new cap space he will take up, is an immeasurable blow.

Not brought in for Malkin. Very special circumstances were met which saw Geno play with Kunitz and Neal.
Malkin has repeatedly had waiver pickups on his wing which were then placed back on waivers. Not the team ahl affiliate, waivers. Who lead the Penguins in scoring most of the season?
- Johnny Wrath

Sids had some duds as well..pessonen, hilbert, armstrong, satan, ekmam, christensen

yeah i dont blame you.

i think you sort of have to. i really dont think the flyers are far off. losing him, despite whatever new cap space he will take up, is an immeasurable blow.
- stayinthefnnet

Agreed. I think, in the timeline Hextall's looking at, the cap isn't a big problem. The tail end years of the anchor contracts could be problematic, but at that point buyouts should hopefully get the job done relatively painlessly.