I like that answer. I really like how HCMJ has conducted his interviews/press conferences so far. He gives honest answers. He may sounds a bit robotic or like a politician but its refreshing to not have long pauses and "get to our game" cliches.

Really only wonder why guys like Megna and Payerl havent been rotated with Sill. Speaking of Payerl, what's his deal? Other than that I understand there is limited room for younger guys.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Payerl looked good for a few weeks last season, but otherwise he's been bad. As big and athletic as he is, he doesn't have the hockey IQ to get in front of the play.

I heard talks when matta comes back from sugrery paul Martin could be shoped to the sharks.and the return wingles and 2nd round pick

I heard talks when matta comes back from sugrery paul Martin could be shoped to the sharks.and the return wingles and 2nd round pick
- Palmer117

I thought that as well, but I figured the amount of favorable zone starts Despres gets would fit well with the amount Tanger gets. But I have no qualms with him and Ehrhoff. That is a very good second pairing.
- usethe1-2-2

Ah, favorable zone starts. Geez, that's one useless statistic.

It assumes that a head coach is going to to interrupt the way he's rolling his lines just so he can put a certain player or players out for a faceoff that your team basically has a 50/50 chance of winning.

I'd say about 1% of all faceoffs include such thinking - end of game, end of period, after an opponent's icing, stuff like that. Otherwise, coaches are rolling their lines first, trying to get matchups second, and worrying about which zone their players are in third.

I heard talks when matta comes back from sugrery paul Martin could be shoped to the sharks.and the return wingles and 2nd round pick
- Palmer117

Ya.... YOU heard.....

Ya.... YOU heard.....
- TheGame316

Def think Martin or Scuds will be moved by the deadline... pens love Harrington and Poulliot... but not going to be for Wingles and a 2nd

Poulliot (although def needing some work in his own end) may have made the team out of camp last season if not for maatta... we ll see him by the end of the season

Ah, favorable zone starts. Geez, that's one useless statistic.

It assumes that a head coach is going to to interrupt the way he's rolling his lines just so he can put a certain player or players out for a faceoff that your team basically has a 50/50 chance of winning.

I'd say about 1% of all faceoffs include such thinking - end of game, end of period, after an opponent's icing, stuff like that. Otherwise, coaches are rolling their lines first, trying to get matchups second, and worrying about which zone their players are in third.
- hardnosed

It's not just about what the coach is thinking. It's about putting other stats in context. You don't get shots on net or points unless you're in the offensive zone. Starting in the D zone means at bare minimum the first 7+ seconds of your shift won't generate any shots (usually far longer since you very rarely combine a clean faceoff win and a perfect breakout). That's extremely conservatively a 10-15% reduction in scoring opportunities based on where you start. Look at how often Crosby's line with Maatta and Letang has started in the offensive zone vs how often Sutter's line, with Martin and Ehrhoff have. It makes sense then that Martin/Ehrhoff's shot and point totals should be considered artificially lowered, and not just a reflection on their ability compared to the 1st pairing.

It is a useful part of the analysis puzzle.

It's not just about what the coach is thinking. It's about putting other stats in context. You don't get shots on net or points unless you're in the offensive zone. Starting in the D zone means at bare minimum the first 7+ seconds of your shift won't generate any shots (usually far longer since you very rarely combine a clean faceoff win and a perfect breakout). That's extremely conservatively a 10-15% reduction in scoring opportunities based on where you start. Look at how often Crosby's line with Maatta and Letang has started in the offensive zone vs how often Sutter's line, with Martin and Ehrhoff have. It makes sense then that Martin/Ehrhoff's shot and point totals should be considered artificially lowered, and not just a reflection on their ability compared to the 1st pairing.

It is a useful part of the analysis puzzle.
- cygnus41

Yeah, but if you're taking 60% of your faceoffs in the offensive zone a game and you're a top-line center taking 10 O or D draws a game on average, we're talking about one extra faceoff in the offensive zone a game to get to 60% zone starts. That's just not that important statistically.

Sure, starting in the offensive zone is better than starting in the defensive zone. But to say that zone start percentages are somehow a strategic move by the coach is asinine.

There was a chart a couple of weeks back showing that Sill, Adams, Malkin, and Spaling get the most offensive zone starts, and that the Crosby line gets the least. It was argued that this was because HCMJ was giving his star line the most responsibility, and that Sill and Adams were being protected.

Sorry, but that's totally flawed. With HCMJ mostly rolling his lines 1-2-3-4 except for skipping the 4th line when possible, it only makes sense that Malkin is going to get a lot of offensive zone faceoffs, because Crosby's line gets a lot of shots and they end their shifts with goalies freezing the puck more often than other lines because of it. Alternatively, Crosby's line often follows Sill's line in the order, so they're probably not going to get those extra one or two chances to start in the offensive zone because of frozen pucks.

I wonder what Mike Johnstons opinion was of Joe Morrow

we basically gave him away for a useless Brendan Morrow, I wonder where he'd be for us today if we had kept him

I wonder what Mike Johnstons opinion was of Joe Morrow

we basically gave him away for a useless Brendan Morrow, I wonder where he'd be for us today if we had kept him
- TheGame316

I think he'd be the guy that everyone would be looking to trade. The Bs are in deep poop with the Chara injury and Boychuck being traded, and he still seems to be incapable of wowing Boston's staff enough to make a legit case for himself.

I wonder what Mike Johnstons opinion was of Joe Morrow

we basically gave him away for a useless Brendan Morrow, I wonder where he'd be for us today if we had kept him
- TheGame316

I hated that deal because I had watched Dallas quite a bit that year and B Morrow was washed up.....playing on the 4th line. That being said, J Morrow hasn't exactly fast tracked to the NHL either.

Still would like to have him in the mix though. He looked great at camp a couple of years ago.

It's also interesting to note that Crosby has gone from a OZS% in the 40's to in the 60's in a couple of weeks.

Is Johnston using him differently? No.

But get a bunch of power plays and your OZS is going to go through the roof.

Alternatively, kill a lot of penalties and your OZS is going to fall. Which is why two weeks later, Sill's still at 60% and Adams is all the way down to 38%. Bottom line is that if you look at the current chart, the guys with the highest OZS are the mainstays of the PP, and the guys with the lowest are the mainstays of the PK.

On top of it all, if starting in the defensive zone is this huge statistical detriment, why are neutral zone faceoffs basically excluded from this worthless OZS stat? Is the neutral zone not closer to the opponent's net and further from your own? Why does that not matter? Because some guy with too much time on his hands decided so?

And Despres is at 51% now, after getting a lot of O zone starts earlier in the year. Does this mean he's gained more trust? Or just statistical randomness combined with the fact that he doesn't kill penalties?

PP is crazy good with virtually the same personel. What has changed? They are free to roam and create. Much more relaxed looking team and it's really evident on the PP.

Stats are stats, u can form judgements based on them or u can watch the game a form ur opinions based on what ur eyes see. Choice is urs. Theres no right or wrong way to enjoy the game....i personally barely even look at stats.....but that doesnt mean i dont love the game.

Im not gonna say man johnny had a great game tonight..then look at his stats and change my mind and say johnny stinks. U can have a good game and bad stats, and u can have a bad game with good stats. Take it.for what its worth.....its info, the more info u got the better off u r.

Stats are stats, u can form judgements based on them or u can watch the game a form ur opinions based on what ur eyes see. Choice is urs. Theres no right or wrong way to enjoy the game....i personally barely even look at stats.....but that doesnt mean i dont love the game.

Im not gonna say man johnny had a great game tonight..then look at his stats and change my mind and say johnny stinks. U can have a good game and bad stats, and u can have a bad game with good stats. Take it.for what its worth.....its info, the more info u got the better off u r.


- pensfan024

But in the case of most advanced stats, it's not more info, it's bad info.

PP is crazy good with virtually the same personel. What has changed? They are free to roam and create. Much more relaxed looking team and it's really evident on the PP.
- powerhouse

Yeah, the PP is unstoppable, but I'd say the biggest change is their breakouts and neutral zone play. Much better. Much more responsible. Odd-man breaks against used to be a staple for this team, now they're pretty rare.

Yeah, the PP is unstoppable, but I'd say the biggest change is their breakouts and neutral zone play. Much better. Much more responsible. Odd-man breaks against used to be a staple for this team, now they're pretty rare.
- madmike71

This year Hornqvist and Kunitz in Front for screens/rebounds, Crosby on the Sidewall quarterbacking/passing and Malkin and Letang sending Bombs from the point

Last year, you only had Kunitz in front, Crosby down low, Neal in the high slot/sidewall for shots and Malkin/Niskanen at the points trying to set up Neal and not shooting enough

PP is crazy good with virtually the same personel. What has changed? They are free to roam and create. Much more relaxed looking team and it's really evident on the PP.
- powerhouse

Hornqvist as a righty has helped. But they just seem to be using the whole zone, and work the puck low to high and back a lot.

The PP under Blysma seemed to only use half the ice.

Hornqvist as a righty has helped. But they just seem to be using the whole zone, and work the puck low to high and back a lot.

The PP under Blysma seemed to only use half the ice.
- rival22

Having two guys down low has also opened things up for the guys up top. It's basically a 3 on 2 for Crosby/Malkin/Letang - Malkin and Letang aren't being hassled at the point nearly as much.

And then the other thing is that Hornqvist is much better at winning 50/50 pucks compared to Neal. He and Kunitz are extending possessions by winning those battles.

Yeah, but if you're taking 60% of your faceoffs in the offensive zone a game and you're a top-line center taking 10 O or D draws a game on average, we're talking about one extra faceoff in the offensive zone a game to get to 60% zone starts. That's just not that important statistically.

Sure, starting in the offensive zone is better than starting in the defensive zone. But to say that zone start percentages are somehow a strategic move by the coach is asinine.

There was a chart a couple of weeks back showing that Sill, Adams, Malkin, and Spaling get the most offensive zone starts, and that the Crosby line gets the least. It was argued that this was because HCMJ was giving his star line the most responsibility, and that Sill and Adams were being protected.

Sorry, but that's totally flawed. With HCMJ mostly rolling his lines 1-2-3-4 except for skipping the 4th line when possible, it only makes sense that Malkin is going to get a lot of offensive zone faceoffs, because Crosby's line gets a lot of shots and they end their shifts with goalies freezing the puck more often than other lines because of it. Alternatively, Crosby's line often follows Sill's line in the order, so they're probably not going to get those extra one or two chances to start in the offensive zone because of frozen pucks.
- hardnosed

So... difference from that 60%+ player, to those in the lower 40%s in a season can be about 200 favorable starts.

You are saying thats negligible...

So... difference from that 60%+ player, to those in the lower 40%s in a season can be about 200 favorable starts.

You are saying thats negligible...
- Guile

2,000 shifts per year, 162 extra offensive zone faceoffs being the difference between 60% and 40% at an average of 10 non-neutral zone faceoffs a night = 8%. Yeah, I'd say 8% of total shifts is pretty negligible.

And my main point is that coaches are rarely (end of game, end of period, after icing) deploying players based on zone starts, and that OZS is massively skewed by how much PP or PK time that player gets.

Payerl isn't that good. Just been talked up by fans a lot.

As for Megna, I have no idea why he isn't playing over Sill. Maybe Cap hit? $874k for Megna vs. $550k for Sill.
- s0rcerer1984

Agreed no room with guys for megna to be up. My guess is if someone gets hurt he will be back or say martin or scuds gets traded he might be.

Anyone feel spaling was a bad trade.and signing? Been very invisible and guys in the system could do better.. ie sundqvist kapanen megna etc...

Still wish is was neal for Hornqvist and a 2nd rdr.

Agreed no room with guys for megna to be up. My guess is if someone gets hurt he will be back or say martin or scuds gets traded he might be.

Anyone feel spaling was a bad trade.and signing? Been very invisible and guys in the system could do better.. ie sundqvist kapanen megna etc...

Still wish is was neal for Hornqvist and a 2nd rdr.
- nh4442

Spaling as a player, doing nothing wrong for where he is... however, the cap hit is too much.

1.5 mil for him I think is the max we could have given him and not had much complaints. 1.75 had Stempniak not been signed for next to nothing, which I think has made us ALL a bit extra nitpicky towards Spaling.

Anyone think sutter could be traded to edm with hall out?

Anyone think sutter could be traded to edm with hall out?
- nh4442

First line player out is pretty much an ideal scenario for us to trade Sutter. But does he have any form of a NTC? Or is Edmonton going to offer a good return?


Realistically, this is a good situation for getting a higher return for him.