On Saturday and Tuesday I posted the first two parts of my extensive sit down interview with Kerry Fraser. In this last section, I talk to Kerry about his impact on the game and the things he could take away from it. As well we go over a possible induction into the Hockey Hall of Fame and what that would mean to him.
For those who don’t know who Fraser is, he was an NHL referee for the better part of 30 years. During his time in the NHL, he set the record for the most regular season games worked with 1,904 and the most post season games worked with 261. In addition he was selected to referee 12 different Stanley Cup Finals and in his first he became the youngest referee ever to do so.
A few weeks ago I included Kerry as part of my series “HHOF: Making the Case”, where I outline different candidate’s cases for the Hockey Hall of Fame. This can be seen here:
HHOF Making the Case: Kerry Fraser
Here are the first two parts of the interview:
A Sit Down With Kerry Fraser Part 1
A Sit Down With Kerry Fraser Part 2 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adam Kirshenblatt: What is the most meaningful thing you learned through your time as an official?
Kerry Fraser: That you can make a difference. The greatest story for me in the book I wrote is the Theo Fleury/Tyson Nash story. Theo Fleury was an angry guy. He didn’t like authority and he hated me. So in 1996 in the first round of the playoffs Calgary was playing the Chicago Blackhawks. Theo Fleury, in Chicago, got a penalty and went nuts. In his book “Playing With Fire”, I was the only referee he took a run at and did it a few times. He hated me that much, even after he retired. So this is what he says about the game in 96.
I gonna [explicit] kill you. I don’t care who you think you are. Let’s meet up in the parking like you [enter explicit here]. Fraser immediately gave me a 10 minute misconduct and throwing me out of the game. It was too much, I took my helmet off and threw it at him.
So I felt anger. His helmet hits me in the skate, my leg started to twitch and I wanted to kick it back at him. My human instinct and emotion, everything that’s part of my core started to come up. I took a breath, was professional, and threw him out of the game.
So now we move four years down the road in 2000 at Madison Square Garden. Theo signed with the New York Rangers, 8 million bucks. The league put him in the substance abuse program right off the bat so he didn’t start the season and he had just been released. At the end of the first period against the St. Louis Blues, there had been a scrum at the end of the major end zone, around the hash marks. Theo came to me at the end of the period as the players were leaving the ice with tears in his eyes. He said, “I’m trying to clean up my life, honest, and I’ve been clean three or four weeks now. I haven’t had anything to drink and I’m trying to clean my life up, honest. Don’t let him talk to me like that. So I said “Who? What?”, where he said “Tyson Nash and this is what he said”.
Now I had a choice. I could have said, “Looks good on you, you little prick. Remember Chicago in 96?” I had a flash of a second to make a decision to decide how I’m going to handle this, what do I do here? Do I let my own dislike for this guy take over? Or do I do the right thing? So I said, “I’ll tell you what, if I can get Tyson Nash back here at the start of the next period and give you a sincere apology, will you accept that.” He said “I will”, then I said “Now promise you won’t break his stick over his head”, he said “I promise”.
So Joel Quenneville was the coach of the St. Louis Blues, and he went zipping around the corner. I went off at the Zamboni entrance, and I told him to meet me here at the start of the next period, at the red line where the Rangers come out. Went into the Blues’ coach’s room and said, “Joel we got a problem. Tyson Nash said this to Theo Fleury.” He rolled his eyes and asked if he wanted me to tell him to take his gear off. He thought I was going to throw him out. I said, “What do you think if we get Tyson to give a sincere apology? It’s got to help Theo and maybe won’t hurt your guy.” He said, “Great idea”. He went into the dressing room and I went down the hall.
We go out for the start of the period and had Theo and I waiting there. Out came the Blues in the Zamboni entrance and Tyson’s kind of looking where I told him to “get over here”. I said, “Do you have something to say to this man?” His lip was quivering and he said “Theo I’m really sorry. I went way below the line and I want to apologize sincerely. I wish you all the best in everything you’ve accomplished.” I asked Theo, “You good with that?” and he said “Yeah I’m good with that”, where I said “Boys shake hands and let’s play.”
So now it’s done. Tyson got 14 minutes in penalties that night, he did his job and played the way he plays. Ten years later, in 2010, I’ve retired and sitting down writing a book. I want to put this story in because my brother called and told me what Theo said in his book. So I call Tyson, and say “Hey Kerry, here. Doing a book, do you remember the situation in Madison Square Garden with Theo?” The phone went dead, he said “Kerry, I want to tell you, that was a life altering experience for me. It was career changing.” I asked him to tell me about it.
So in his own words this is what he said.
When I first started playing hockey, I was actually pretty decent and had the ability to put the puck in the back of the net, but as I travelled on in my career I realized, and certain coaches helped me realize, if I was going to make the NHL… I needed to play a certain way. I, of course, didn’t always agree with them… but I listened and am so thankful I did because of the career I ended up having…
Coach Quenneville gave me an opportunity and a rôle on a great NHL team. When I first got called up to the NHL after four years in the minors, I knew this might be my only chance to show what I can do… I ran around and hit everything that moved and smiled and laughed the whole game through, and in many more after that, for I was living my dram and I was playing in the NHL…. Coach Quenneville told me that I needed to be the most hated man in hockey and bring that smile and energy to every game and as long as I did that I would be a St. Louis Blue. The rest was history. From that day I would do whatever I had to do to stick in the league; I would hit anything and anyone… I would yell and chirp and do whatever I could to get the upper hand or draw penalties. After all, we had the best power play in the league, and in fact we had a stat sheet for penalties drawn- which, of course, I dominated. At least I could say I was good in one stat column.
I am pretty sure I was a ref’s nightmare, always in the middle of everything, and it just escalated from there. It was a tough role [to assume] because it wasn’t really who I was. I consider myself a pretty nice guy who, off the ice, hates controversy, but on the ice I had to do something totally opposite or I would be gone. I was given a job and I wanted to be great at it, no matter what or who stood in my way- until on a particular night.
Before a game against the Rangers, everyone talked and gossiped, and in the heat of the moment I said some things that I typically never do and [got] personal. I was frustrated with Theo Fleury and in the heat of the moment I… attacked him as a person. Obviously, Theo was a very fiery guy and it didn’t take much to get to him, but instead of fire him up, I apparently struck a chord emotionally and he approached Kerry Fraser about it and, well, that was a huge wake-up call for me that certain things are offsides no matter how bad you want to win the game…
After that, I never went after someone’s personal life and I have Fraser to thank for playing dad in this one.
I often wonder if I make a difference. Ten years later the guy tells me it was life altering, career changing. The impact of something simple out on the ice, which was just forcing an apology.
There was another story involving Claude Lemieux when he won the Conn Smythe Trophy. He was going through a very public, nasty divorce. Matthew Barnaby was playing for Pittsburgh and Claude came to me in the Meadowlands, crying. Tears rolling down his cheeks, where he said “Don’t let him talk about my wife like that. I’m going through a very bad divorce and he said some awful things.” I asked him what he said and he told me, it was just disgusting.
So again, decision time. So I said “Barnaby! Get over here! Did you say those things about his wife?”, where he responded “Yeah I said that!”, where I said, “You apologize to this man or I’m throwing you out of the game!” He said, “You can’t do that!” and I said, “Try me, I mean you’re gone. Gross misconduct.” He said, “ahh I’m sorry”, I said, “no no, that’s not good enough. Better than that!” He gave another attempt, and asked Claude if he was ok with that and he goes to the dressing room. Barnaby and I are still standing there where I told him “If I ever hear you say anything like that about a guy’s family again I will turf you in a heartbeat, and I will make sure you get suspended. He said, “alright I won’t do it anymore, but I want you to know something, what I said about him was the truth.”
Years later, Claude retired and I’m in Phoenix with my family. We had the New Years early game in Phoenix and after we went to the sanctuary on Camel Back Mountain afterwards. We go in and Claude and his family was there. We had a drink, hug and chat. He took my two girls aside, and he said to them “I want you to know that your father is a great man. He helped me out in a very difficult time in my life and he stepped up. You just need to know that he’s a great man.”
So again, is there a rule in the book that covers that? No. It’s the ability to set a line that you think is appropriate within a game that you need to enforce. Are we the morality police? Not specifically, but it does fall into our area of controlling the game. There’s a code of conduct in a game and it was my job to enforce it. It’s not just about trips and hooks, and holds, but its values. To make the game better and keep it fair. To provide for the integrity of the game.
Theo Fleury and Tyson Nash for the Rangers and Blues respectively
Adam Kirshenblatt: What was the Achievement that made you most proud?
Kerry Fraser: My children, my family. They’re the legacy. Kathy and I have 7 children and 7 grandchildren. For me, that’s my biggest claim to fame. My terrific children and grandchildren. That answer’s got to surprise you?
Adam Kirshenblatt: Most guys would talk about something they did in hockey.
Kerry Fraser: Where would you like me to start? Most games in the history of the NHL as a referee? 1996 World Cup? Nagano Olympics? Two All-Star Games? Winter Classic? Blah Blah Blah.
Prior to the game in Fenway I was asked what my favourite game was, it was the Leafs at Detroit Red Wings. Regular season, Pat Quinn was coaching the Leafs and Tie Domi was playing for them. There was a family near Sarnia, and the mother was dying of cancer. She had two teenaged daughters, one about to turn 16. They were all big Leaf fans, before every game they would sit down in their jerseys with popcorn and watch the Leafs play.
As part of a Make a Wish sort of thing, I was able to arrange a trip for them to watch the Leafs play. We didn’t know if Margaret was able to travel, she was pretty feeble at this point. Sure enough, as I’m standing outside the Marriott near Joe Louis Arena, their car rolled up with Margaret in the front seat with the girls in the back. I had arranged for them to go to the morning skate. Steve Yzerman and Darren McCarty came out first after the Wings were on the ice and Scotty Bowman, they were terrific with Margaret and the girls and took them into the Red Wings locker room. Then we came back into the hall when the Leafs finished. Pat Quinn came by and I introduced him to the family, where he was awesome. Other Leaf players were great, but their favourite was Tie Domi. Out came Tie, and he was just awesome! As soon as he walked out the girls started whispering to each other “there he is”. Their eyes lit up, it was really special.
We had a suite for them back at the hotel. I had arranged while we were at the game, for catering to come in and decorate the suite because the one girl was turning 16. They loved the game, great seats just behind the bench. We came back, had streamers, cake the whole deal.
Margaret died about a month later. The night before she passed, her husband was holding her in her arms. The most special day of her life was the game where she saw her girls, who she was never going to see again, never see them marry, never see them have children. She said it was the most special day of her life, a hockey game. I wrote a column on it and I said so many people think the game is life or death, but this game was life in the face of death.
So can we make a difference? Something simple. It wasn’t about me at all, it was just I was able to facilitate something.
Adam Kirshenblatt: What would it mean to you if you are selected to the Hockey Hall of Fame?
Kerry Fraser: I walk into the Hockey Hall of Fame and every time I’m in it, my knees tremble. I love the history of the game so much. When I would work the Hall of Fame game on a Saturday night [the Maple Leafs game prior to the Induction Ceremony], to see all of the Hall of Fame, old players to come out on the red carpet… it was just a humbling experience for me. For me to do one game in the NHL was a thrill, to do over 2,000 games was beyond any dream that I would ever have. Being attached to a game where I see those people enshrined, if I were ever inducted it would be humbling for sure. It would be a culmination of the blessing I had to do a job I love for 30 years and to do it in a meaningful way. I think that’s the recognition that those guys in the hall deserve, they made significant contributions and are recognized for it. I hope someday I will be too.
Fraser managing the bench, which manages the game
Adam Kirshenblatt: Given your relationship with the city of Toronto, what effect do you think that could have on a possible induction considering that is where the Hall of Fame is located?
Kerry Fraser: One call or one missed call does not make a career. The millions of decisions that I made throughout the course of my career… and the majority of them that would be judged as correct. Them making a positive difference over the course of a career is what’s viewed, not one specific play. If that were the case, you’d have nobody in the Hall of Fame. If it was based on one error or one glaring mistake. The people who are inducted into the hall is based on their contribution to the game over the course of the career. That’s what they’re judged on. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here are my playoff predictions for the 2nd round.
Boston Bruins Over Montreal Canadiens in 4 games. (Yes, I know I’m already wrong)
New York Rangers Over Pittsburgh Penguins in 6 games.
Chicago Blackhawks Over Minnesota Wild in 6 games.
Los Angeles Kings over Anaheim Ducks in 5 games.
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I’d like to thank Mr. Fraser for taking the time to sit with me on what was a busy day for him. His candidness and great anecdotes made this series a real easy piece to write.
If you want to see more from Kerry, you can follow him on Twitter @kfraserthecall or read his blog on TSN by clicking here:
C’mon Ref!.
As for myself, you can continue to see more articles about hockey history on right here on Hockeybuzz and you can contact me at
[email protected] and follow me on Twitter @Kirshenblatt.
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