Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: The Risk and Reward of Drafting Defensemen in Round One

Great blog, Bill.


And as always, I boggle at the Flyer's general inability to draft, develop, and keep defensemen when its been well established that they can be found all over the place in both the draft and undrafted free agent pool.

thanks again Bill

for me the bottom line is what the top GMs in this league are doing or attempting to do- have as many top 4 level dmen available on ELCs because dmen cost the most and are the most expensive to acquire in terms of assets. a GM who is efficient in his use of assets obviously has more slack and homer has been wanting in that regard in the past.

based on your blog today, would you be willing to trade our #1 this yr and B Schenn+ to acquire a dman like shattenkirk?

In the salary cap era, it also must be noted that the bigger the need to trade for established defensemen or sign them as free agents, the higher the percentage of a team's salary cap that must be devoted to the defense position.

Exactly. That is, to me, the one and only valid criticism in the homegrown defenseman debate...if you can't pick them at the draft, they're going to cost you more across the board.

On a leaguewide basis, a mere 33.8 percent (or 2.37 of the average team's starting six defensemen) of blueline regulars currently play for the team that drafted them.

Great blog and this is a tremendous point.

Developing defensemen is every bit as important as drafting good defensemen.

Perhaps it's the developing part the organization needs to get better at.

Great blog and this is a tremendous point.

Developing defensemen is every bit as important as drafting good defensemen.

Perhaps it's the developing part the organization needs to get better at.
- johndewar

I would agree with this for the most part while pointing out that even the defenseman playing somewhere else drafted by the Flyers haven't really stood out.

Great blog and this is a tremendous point.

Developing defensemen is every bit as important as drafting good defensemen.

Perhaps it's the developing part the organization needs to get better at.
- johndewar

Considering the way the Flyers always seem to live at max cap space, its almost an imperative that they not continue to overpay (relative to cap space) for defensemen if they wish to compete for the Cup. Developing and keeping homegrown defensive talent looks like its going to be an absolute must going forward.

I look at the contracts awarded to guys like Matt Carle, Bryan Allen et al. and I have to shake my head.

Considering the way the Flyers always seem to live at max cap space, its almost an imperative that they not continue to overpay (relative to cap space) for defensemen if they wish to compete for the Cup. Developing and keeping homegrown defensive talent looks like its going to be an absolute must going forward.

I look at the contracts awarded to guys like Matt Carle, Bryan Allen et al. and I have to shake my head.
- Doc_Sarcasm

They need to, at least, put more of an organizational emphasis on developing defense, to be sure.

Even though Bill has indicated that Terry Murray only took the Phantoms job as a favor to the organization, I would love to see them throw money at a guy like Murray who has successfully developed defensemen to keep him in the organization somehow.

They need to, at least, put more of an organizational emphasis on developing defense, to be sure.

Even though Bill has indicated that Terry Murray only took the Phantoms job as a favor to the organization, I would love to see them throw money at a guy like Murray who has successfully developed defensemen to keep him in the organization somehow.
- johndewar

I will also point out that over the past few seasons, at least we are starting to see home grown guys get NHL time. Players such as Lauridson, Bourdon, Gus. Ghost, Konan, and Alt in the pipeline.

The future looks slightly less bleak than it has in the past.

Exactly. That is, to me, the one and only valid criticism in the homegrown defenseman debate...if you can't pick them at the draft, they're going to cost you more across the board.
- wolfhounds

but if you are decent at drafting forwards, you have forwards on ELCs, and extra money to spend on defense...

I would agree with this for the most part while pointing out that even the defenseman playing somewhere else drafted by the Flyers haven't really stood out.
- MBFlyerfan

Dennis Seidenberg has turned out to be a very solid # 2 guy. Another Bob Clarke special.

Bob Clarke turned Patrick Sharp, Dennis Seidenberg, and Justin Williams into Matt Ellison, Petr Nedved, and Danny Markov. Simply awesome.

thanks again Bill

for me the bottom line is what the top GMs in this league are doing or attempting to do- have as many top 4 level dmen available on ELCs because dmen cost the most and are the most expensive to acquire in terms of assets. a GM who is efficient in his use of assets obviously has more slack and homer has been wanting in that regard in the past.

based on your blog today, would you be willing to trade our #1 this yr and B Schenn+ to acquire a dman like shattenkirk?
- isaiah520

I'd like to see a list of teams that have top 4 defenseman on ELC's.

I personally would not favor the trade you propose.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: The Risk and Reward of Drafting Defensemen in Round One
- bmeltzer

The current postseason just goes to show you that there's no one single way to build a defensive core.

You can do it through drafting like Chicago -- Duncan Keith, Brent Seabrook, Niklas Hjalmarsson, Adam Clendening

You can do it through trades like Boston -- Zdeno Chara, Dennis Seidenberg, Johnny Boychuk, Andrew Ference, Adam McQuaid

There's no one right way.

I will also point out that over the past few seasons, at least we are starting to see home grown guys get NHL time. Players such as Lauridson, Bourdon, Gus. Ghost, Konan, and Alt in the pipeline.

The future looks slightly less bleak than it has in the past.
- MBFlyerfan

I'm probably in the minority here, but I'm not as sold on Lauridsen as most seem to be. He looked pretty good over a handful of games late last year. I just don't think he has the positioning to account for his lack of speed. That can come, and I'd really love for the Flyers to get Pronger as a tutor to some of the younger defensemen on that. I'm not saying it's impossible to overcome, but I'd be surprised if he becomes more than a 7th defenseman.

Dennis Seidenberg has turned out to be a very solid # 2 guy. Another Bob Clarke special.

Bob Clarke turned Patrick Sharp, Dennis Seidenberg, and Justin Williams into Matt Ellison, Petr Nedved, and Danny Markov. Simply awesome.
- PLindbergh31

Look at most GM's resume's. They all have trades that didn't work out on it.

Considering the way the Flyers always seem to live at max cap space, its almost an imperative that they not continue to overpay (relative to cap space) for defensemen if they wish to compete for the Cup. Developing and keeping homegrown defensive talent looks like its going to be an absolute must going forward.

I look at the contracts awarded to guys like Matt Carle, Bryan Allen et al. and I have to shake my head.
- Doc_Sarcasm

As Bill said, a lot of the defensive prospects that do pan out are usually on to their second (or third) club by the time they get their games together.

Solving the problem via drafting should be the primary focus, of course, but being in position to be that second (or third) club that reaps the benefits of a solid draft selection is probably just as viable, if not more efficient, way to assemble an affordable d-corps.

The worst possible way is to overpay for guys in their primes, or try to deal for guys like Pietrangelo/OEL who've already hit their stride... it's either going to cost you a boatload of assets, or a ton of $ against the cap, or both.

That's why some of us love the idea of reclamation projects like Erik Johnson, Jamie McBain, etc.

You missed Mike Green. 1st rounda. Really good blog though.

The current postseason just goes to show you that there's no one single way to build a defensive core.

You can do it through drafting like Chicago -- Duncan Keith, Brent Seabrook, Niklas Hjalmarsson, Adam Clendening

You can do it through trades like Boston -- Zdeno Chara, Dennis Seidenberg, Johnny Boychuk, Andrew Ference, Adam McQuaid

There's no one right way.
- bradleyc4

Absolutely. And if you constantly draft defenseman. Then you're going to be trading for and signing forwards. And paying the price there. Same goes for Forwards. Look at LA. Won the Cup last year. In the Conference Finals this year. Out of the 12 top Forwards for the Kings in icetime in the playoffs. They drafted and developed 4 of them.

Look at most GM's resume's. They all have trades that didn't work out on it.
- MJL

Your point is valid, but Detroit hasn't misfired on a trade in a long time.

http://www.nhltradetracke...y_team/Detroit_Red_Wings/

Mystifying.

I'd like to see a list of teams that have top 4 defenseman on ELC's.

I personally would not favor the trade you propose.
- MJL

There's a few, not many:
LA - Voynov
NYI - Hamonic
NYR - McDonagh
Tor - Gardiner

Definitely the exception rather than the norm.

Absolutely. And if you constantly draft defenseman. Then you're going to be trading for and signing forwards. And paying the price there. Same goes for Forwards. Look at LA. Won the Cup last year. In the Conference Finals this year. Out of the 12 top Forwards for the Kings in icetime in the playoffs. They drafted and developed 4 of them.
- MJL

Look at Nashville. Consistently in search of scoring.

It's a balance.

You missed Mike Green. 1st rounda. Really good blog though.
- Blackstrom2

He's a winger.

Bob Clarke turned Patrick Sharp, Dennis Seidenberg, and Justin Williams into Matt Ellison, Petr Nedved, and Danny Markov. Simply awesome.
- PLindbergh31

Thanks for pointing this out.

*violently pokes a pen in own eye*

He's a winger.
- jmatchett383

Yeah, that's what everyone who doesn't watch him say. he really isn't that bad in his own zone. Not the best, but certainly not the worst. You want to know who is? John Carlson.

Your point is valid, but Detroit hasn't misfired on a trade in a long time.

http://www.nhltradetracke...y_team/Detroit_Red_Wings/

Mystifying.
- bradleyc4

Sarcasm?