That's whole season though, right. I was just referring to when Sheahan centered them.
- Tojo.

Well the 4 games (small sample size, but I think that's about how long Sheahan centered them) I looked at, they saw one game vs. Barzal's unit in NYI and got slaughtered. Every other matchup was vs. 3rd or 4th lines.

Well the 4 games (small sample size, but I think that's about how long Sheahan centered them) I looked at, they saw one game vs. Barzal's unit in NYI and got slaughtered. Every other matchup was vs. 3rd or 4th lines.
- j.boyd919

ok, I may be remembering incorrectly then.

ok, I may be remembering incorrectly then.
- Tojo.

I only looked at a handful of games, but that was the only game that stood out where they got significant time vs. a top line, I'm also not sure exactly what games they had Sheahan at center. NST has a new "line" took that's pretty cool, and in their limited time together, they about break even on most numbers, but I'm not sure if it shows their QoC.

I haven’t heard Byron be talked about in trade rumours much but from talking to my buddy that’s a huge habs fan he says he’s definitely been talked about in rumours with them. His points production looks good and he starts more often then not in the Dzone it looks like so they must trust him there. For 1.1 million for this season and next he looks like an absolute steal.... Especially when I doubt he would cost much at all. I’m not sure how to use those tables but I wouldn’t mind seeing Paul Byron’s charts on extended stats

http://naturalstattrick.com/playerreport.php?season=20172018&playerid=8471817&sit=5v5&stype=2&stdoi=oi&rate=&v=o

If you go here and sort it by TOI With, you don't see a lot of skilled line players, it's guys like Kunitz, Callahan, McLeod, Watson... looking at that, it seems like they do everything they can to get them away from the skilled guys, also just my quick research.

Also looking at the last 4 Penguins wins, they had 1 game where they had significant time vs. a top line, and it was vs. NYI and they got slaughtered in the shot attempts/scoring chances battle.
- j.boyd919

How many GA in that slaughter? Were the shots against high danger? Did they hold their own going up against the opposition top line by holding the scoring or were they slaughtered by GA?

I know, questions right? But pertanant questions considering your point of view in reference to slaughter just for future reference - I see some games Sid's line getting 3 GA but out shooting their opponents, is that being slaughtered?

How many GA in that slaughter? Were the shots against high danger? Did they hold their own going up against the opposition top line by holding the scoring or were they slaughtered by GA?

I know, questions right? But pertanant questions considering your point of view in reference to slaughter just for future reference - I see some games Sid's line getting 3 GA but out shooting their opponents, is that being slaughtered?
- Aussiepenguin

Nah.

Nah.
- j.boyd919

This is the problem with guys like you quoting analytics. Your references & implications are persuaded by certain stats not considering others - the exact thing you say you don't do nor should be done.

I much prefer zero GA & be 'slaughtered' In shots against & limited scoring chances by a certain shift than having overwhelming success in Corsi but being slaughtered in GA! But that's just me!

Pageau is a mediocre 3rd center on a disappointing team. Why be locked in to an inconsistent player for over 3 mil/yr? A non-difference maker? Yes he had a very good playoff last year. He is streaky. Just as likely to be a bust. Pass.

Not big on Pageau tbh. Too much $$ for mediocre.

This is the problem with guys like you quoting analytics. Your references & implications are persuaded by certain stats not considering others - the exact thing you say you don't do nor should be done.

I much prefer zero GA & be 'slaughtered' In shots against & limited scoring chances by a certain shift than having overwhelming success in Corsi but being slaughtered in GA! But that's just me!
- Aussiepenguin

Nah.

Nah.
- j.boyd919

Didn't think so. Too difficult.

Maybe I'm not recollecting everything, but my recollection last season & before was that Culldog played a lot of 2nd & 3rd C with a lot better wingers when Sid & Geno had injuries, than he did on the 4th line. I think there's a lot of people romanticising our 4th line from seasons past. Yes when Culldog played there it was a lot better than it is now, but it still wasn't that good (or at least not as good as some suggest).

I again ask what people expect from players playing 4 minutes a night? If that line can contain an opponents top 6 then I'm ecstatic because then Sid or Geno get a crack at the opponents 4th line in most cases. In saying that I've seen another teams 4th line score against our 'top' guys, so isn't that there a yuuge problem?

There are other significant issues plaguing this team, the 4 minute a night guys is just 1 on the list & probably not even in the top 3. She-man appears better suited on the 4th line as well in my opinion, that's a pretty energetic line when it gets a chance - energetic meaning putting pressure on their opponents.

Are playing 4th line minutes the best thing for his development ?
- willi

If the line was effective and he was getting approx 10 to 12 mins a game, then yes, I do believe it would be better for him to be there. He could slot up and down the wings in a game if HCMS turns on the blender like he sometimes doe. He can keep up with the big boys and he takes a lot of shots...shots, whether they hit the net, just miss or hit a body in front can create more offence. He would be a weapon (shot) for the 2nd PP as well.

If the line could be effective and utilized 10 to 12 mins a game it would have a trickle down (up?) effect to the stars. They would have more energy for the late stages of a game...and really, for the late stages of the season/playoffs if this could happen every night.

Alot of ifs, I know..but why not give it a shot...

Mackey said he himself reached out to Mark Letestu’s camp and they hadn’t heard anything about potential interest from the Pens.

Couple things. Trade talks are pretty covert by nature, so I see no reason why Letestu’s camp would inform a Pittsburgh media guy about the truth if there was anything to it. You never know what a leak to the public can do to talks. Also, most players are shocked when they’re traded unless rumors have been swirling for years, so it’s not out of the question the Letestu camp wouldn’t know about talks to begin with.

The more I think about it, the more I think I’d rather get Letestu than JGP. I know Pageau is the better player here, and that trade would have more upside, but it’s unclear to me how much better he is, and I’m kinda wary of committing to Pageau as our 3C for the next two and a half years for 3.1 mil AAV when the UFA center market should be strong this offseason. Pageau is no sure thing and could bust for us, so it might be best to go with an expiring contract in Letestu (who’d be leagues easier to fit under the cap by just sending guys down) and test our luck in free agency and go hard at Bozak, Filpula, Ellers, or Sedin/Jumbo or even a guy like Backlund or Statsney if their teams allow them to hit the free market. Lots of options this offseason, unlike last offseason.

Didn't think so. Too difficult.
- Aussiepenguin

Nah.

Mackey said he himself reached out to Mark Letestu’s camp and they hadn’t heard anything about potential interest from the Pens.

Couple things. Trade talks are pretty covert by nature, so I see no reason why Letestu’s camp would inform a Pittsburgh media guy about the truth if there was anything to it. You never know what a leak to the public can do to talks. Also, most players are shocked when they’re traded unless rumors have been swirling for years, so it’s not out of the question the Letestu camp wouldn’t know about talks to begin with.

The more I think about it, the more I think I’d rather get Letestu than JGP. I know Pageau is the better player here, and that trade would have more upside, but it’s unclear to me how much better he is, and I’m kinda wary of committing to Pageau as our 3C for the next two and a half years for 3.1 mil AAV when the UFA center market should be strong this offseason. Pageau is no sure thing and could bust for us, so it might be best to go with an expiring contract in Letestu (who’d be leagues easier to fit under the cap by just sending guys down) and test our luck in free agency and go hard at Bozak, Filpula, Ellers, or Sedin/Jumbo or even a guy like Backlund or Statsney if their teams allow them to hit the free market. Lots of options this offseason, unlike last offseason.
- Victoro311

I'm just not interested in sending a roster player (Sheary, Rust, etc.) for JGP. I feel like Letestu could be had for a 2nd or 3rd or something and to me that's better for the Pens, building more forward depth.

Not big on Pageau tbh. Too much $$ for mediocre.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

I'm not sure where I stand on him. Earlier in the season the idea of him sounded great, but now I'm not sure. He could thrive in a Pens' jersey, but I think the Pens can do better.

MTL is really going to be the domino of the trade deadline, so they are the team to watch.

There's also a real possibility that any of these rumors for MTL and possibly OTT looking to rebuild won't come to fruition until the off-season.

I'm just not interested in sending a roster player (Sheary, Rust, etc.) for JGP. I feel like Letestu could be had for a 2nd or 3rd or something and to me that's better for the Pens, building more forward depth.
- j.boyd919

Me neither. I couldnt care less about any picks outside the first round though, and hell, if a 1st landed us a prize, the 1st can fly to F too. F picks right now. Pens have a chance at a 3peat and a 3 or 4 year window for more cups in my opinion. All the complaining I've seen people do about the picks sent out over the past ten years...were they a big deal? No, they weren't. The Pens are back to back champs despite all the picks they've traded away. Champs 3 times 8 years.

F the picks.

I'm just not interested in sending a roster player (Sheary, Rust, etc.) for JGP. I feel like Letestu could be had for a 2nd or 3rd or something and to me that's better for the Pens, building more forward depth.
- j.boyd919

I agree with you. To me any of our roster players with value is unacceptable for Pageau. I’d do Hagelin despite his good play of late, Cole because we’re not using him, and Reaves and Hunwick because they suck, but I have no clue what Ottawa would want with any of them.

Unless it’s a legit hockey trade that’s bringing back a high caliber guy like Nuge or Galchenyuk, just go with an expiring guy that can get the job done and let us use G as a wing, and go hard in free agency.

Me neither. I couldnt care less about any picks outside the first round though, and hell, if a 1st landed us a prize, the 1st can fly to F too. F picks right now. Pens have a chance at a 3peat and a 3 or 4 year window for more cups in my opinion. All the complaining I've seen people do about the picks sent out over the past ten years...were they a big deal? No, they weren't. The Pens are back to back champs despite all the picks they've traded away. Champs 3 times 8 years.

F the picks.
- MattStrat

Me neither. I couldnt care less about any picks outside the first round though, and hell, if a 1st landed us a prize, the 1st can fly to F too. F picks right now. Pens have a chance at a 3peat and a 3 or 4 year window for more cups in my opinion. All the complaining I've seen people do about the picks sent out over the past ten years...were they a big deal? No, they weren't. The Pens are back to back champs despite all the picks they've traded away. Champs 3 times 8 years.

F the picks.
- MattStrat

I think the picks were a very big deal until Rutherford fixed the team. By the end of the Shero era we were tapped for top 6 talent and it seriously threatened the second half of our window. The lack of pipeline was big deal then.

But Rutherford really saved us with some savvy trades. That can’t be overstated. Now that we’re at the end of our window and pretty much all of our top 6 talent is cost controlled and we have our top 4 locked up, the picks don’t really matter

Mackey said he himself reached out to Mark Letestu’s camp and they hadn’t heard anything about potential interest from the Pens.

Couple things. Trade talks are pretty covert by nature, so I see no reason why Letestu’s camp would inform a Pittsburgh media guy about the truth if there was anything to it. You never know what a leak to the public can do to talks. Also, most players are shocked when they’re traded unless rumors have been swirling for years, so it’s not out of the question the Letestu camp wouldn’t know about talks to begin with.

The more I think about it, the more I think I’d rather get Letestu than JGP. I know Pageau is the better player here, and that trade would have more upside, but it’s unclear to me how much better he is, and I’m kinda wary of committing to Pageau as our 3C for the next two and a half years for 3.1 mil AAV when the UFA center market should be strong this offseason. Pageau is no sure thing and could bust for us, so it might be best to go with an expiring contract in Letestu (who’d be leagues easier to fit under the cap by just sending guys down) and test our luck in free agency and go hard at Bozak, Filpula, Ellers, or Sedin/Jumbo or even a guy like Backlund or Statsney if their teams allow them to hit the free market. Lots of options this offseason, unlike last offseason.
- Victoro311

I'm not a Pageau fan either at that contract.

Eller would be a good target.

I think the picks were a very big deal until Rutherford fixed the team. By the end of the Shero era we were tapped for top 6 talent and it seriously threatened the second half of our window. The lack of pipeline was big deal then.

But Rutherford really saved us with some savvy trades. That can’t be overstated. Now that we’re at the end of our window and pretty much all of our top 6 talent is cost controlled and we have our top 4 locked up, the picks don’t really matter
- Victoro311

With everyone healthy, a cheap Sheahan (Letestu) 3C would add so much to the roster. If the Pens wanted to they could run...
Simon-Sid-Sprong
Hags-Geno-Horny
Guentzel-Letestu-Kessel
Kuhn-Sheahan-Rust

And basically Simon, Sprong, Guentzel, Rust, whoever they could all shift anywhere in the lineup, except Kuhn, cause he blows. But the rest of that roster could play anywhere.

I think the picks were a very big deal until Rutherford fixed the team. By the end of the Shero era we were tapped for top 6 talent and it seriously threatened the second half of our window. The lack of pipeline was big deal then.

But Rutherford really saved us with some savvy trades. That can’t be overstated. Now that we’re at the end of our window and pretty much all of our top 6 talent is cost controlled and we have our top 4 locked up, the picks don’t really matter
- Victoro311

I get what you're saying but my point is simply that ultimately the picks didnt end up mattering. Youre basically reinforcing that by showing how and that how is that good trading can overcome not having a lot of picks through the years.

With everyone healthy, a cheap Sheahan (Letestu) 3C would add so much to the roster. If the Pens wanted to they could run...
Simon-Sid-Sprong
Hags-Geno-Horny
Guentzel-Letestu-Kessel
Kuhn-Sheahan-Rust

And basically Simon, Sprong, Guentzel, Rust, whoever they could all shift anywhere in the lineup, except Kuhn, cause he blows. But the rest of that roster could play anywhere.
- j.boyd919

I really like that....but we know Reaves isnt sitting...