Duchense >>>>> Hartman

why would that be a non starter
- Reveen.

Yes he is better but he also makes 5 million more. Also I think they have around the same about of goals this year.

He's 22 and only in his 2nd full NHL season... not saying you're wrong, just that it's WAY too early to make that determination on him considering he doesn't even have 200 games under his belt.
- BINGO!

Not disagreeing with that. I watched him play quite a bit in Europe and his style of play has been pretty consistent throughout. While his NHL experience is still limited, he did play pro hockey in Europe before coming over.

i am not saying he is a bust. Just more along the lines of what he is as a player will remain the same.

Yes he is better but he also makes 5 million more. Also I think they have around the same about of goals this year.
- HamiltonHawk

The is no question that Duchene is and will always be the better player than Hartman.
The only thing that bothers me about Duchene and its nebulous at best, is he is a part of the mess in Colorado. That is enough talent on that team to be better than the worst team in the league.

My question is what is his role in the mess.

As far as throwing shade on Darling as part of a larger throwing shade on the notion of dealing Crawford . . .

if only it was as simple as how many games a guy has played. And for every Hellebuyck or Gibson, you can point to a Cam Talbot or a Sergei Bobrovsky.

And that's all kind of stupid because you're looking at their numbers in a vacuum, ignoring the quality of the teams in front of them (one way or the other).

The reality of the salary-capped NHL today is you have to make commitments to guys you would much rather see marinating as a backup or in the minors.

The truth is, no one on this board or outside the Chicago Blackhawks knows the HAWKS' true take on Corey Crawford, his value at $6 million a season, and then the larger context of how it fits along with all the other salary decisions they need to make.

And the same nobody knows how they view Darling's ability (or lack thereof) to carry the mail as a #1.

To say Darling has done nothing to at least tease the question—when he's had to come in and be the guy when Crawford's been injured or got pulled—is ignorant.

I know people who've forgotten more about goaltending than I will ever know who have grudgingly come around to ask that question. The guy has delivered. He has arguably gotten better in some ways. But whether he can be the guy is still a valid question that no one will really have an answer to until someone hands him the reins.

It's all a cost/value tradeoff. And beyond the stats and the reputations and the "games played," there are sometimes other factors that go into the decision.

I mean, he put up 10 points in 18 games with you guys the first time around... I dunno. Thinking it's pretty hard to make a call on the career of a 22 year old. Your expectations of him may have been a bit out to lunch.
- BINGO!

Expectations were CRAZY high for him here. Hawk fans will fixate on this prospect or that like they are second coming of Lord BeJesus, then once they're traded, they blow.

Just this year, everyone was all gaga over Schmaltz and Motte, and most pretty much looked at Hartman as a fourth line afterthought. Motte's in the minors and Schmaltz has come along a bit, but Hartman is really the jewel thus far.

But I think by the time TT left town, Hawk fans had a pretty good sense of the player he was and likely will be.

He has tons of skill and hockey sense, but it appears he will always be a perimeter up and down player. He just doesn't like the really rough going. And that dislike sometimes leads to poor possession plays.

AND he seems averse to the hard offseason work that would allow him to transcend the typecasting.

Could it change? I guess. I have my doubts.

From the Department of Duh.

Also just heard, the Hawks are looking for a new home for McNeill, guessing that will be a very minor deal or part of a lesser deal.
- John Jaeckel

Someone else mentioned yesterday that maybe (and hopefully) a minor McNeill deal will turn out to be a Morin-Panik deal.

The is no question that Duchene is and will always be the better player than Hartman.
The only thing that bothers me about Duchene and its nebulous at best, is he is a part of the mess in Colorado. That is enough talent on that team to be better than the worst team in the league.

My question is what is his role in the mess.
- TTtime

I've heard he can be kind of a douche but that is very anecdotal and vague. I also heard Toews loved him as a teammate in the WCH.

I have also heard that Sakic has an issue with the team's overall maturity and expects more specifically form landeskog, but also doesn't want to trade him, sees him as a guy he wants to build around.

We have too many guys who were natural Centers.

Skinner, J. Staal, Rask, Lindholm, Aho and TT all have played C at various points over their careers.

Lindholm and Staal swap out on faceoffs depending on which side of the ice they're one.

Lindholm's offense has really taken off since he started playing with Aho though. He's been saddled with carrying depth lines more than he's been given the chance to play with skilled players. When he gets to use his body and create offense, he's tremendous.
- BINGO!

Thanks for the insight! I would agree that if Lindholm was playing a scoring role with offensively-gifted and -minded linemates, then he would thrive and his stats would be around at least a 50-point pace. But if you're playing solid hockey on a bottom-6 line, then your scoring stats are going to be lower and not because you're a dud on offense.

Expectations were CRAZY high for him here. Hawk fans will fixate on this prospect or that like they are second coming of Lord BeJesus, then once they're traded, they blow.

Just this year, everyone was all gaga over Schmaltz and Motte, and most pretty much looked at Hartman as a fourth line afterthought. Motte's in the minors and Schmaltz has come along a bit, but Hartman is really the jewel thus far.

But I think by the time TT left town, Hawk fans had a pretty good sense of the player he was and likely will be.

He has tons of skill and hockey sense, but it appears he will always be a perimeter up and down player. He just doesn't like the really rough going. And that dislike sometimes leads to poor possession plays.

AND he seems averse to the hard offseason work that would allow him to transcend the typecasting.

Could it change? I guess. I have my doubts.
- John Jaeckel

Perhaps. I guess I'm used to it with some of the players the Canes have had over the years, as he really hasn't looked like he's shied away from contact or board play so far in his time here.

Of course, the Canes play a style that keeps the puck off of the walls anyway, but he's been fine that way as opposed to, say, Lee Stempniak.

From the Department of Duh.

Also just heard, the Hawks are looking for a new home for McNeill, guessing that will be a very minor deal or part of a lesser deal.
- John Jaeckel

Good... would like to see the kid get a shot somewhere else.

Thanks for the insight! I would agree that if Lindholm was playing a scoring role with offensively-gifted and -minded linemates, then he would thrive and his stats would be around at least a 50-point pace. But if you're playing solid hockey on a bottom-6 line, then your scoring stats are going to be lower and not because you're a dud on offense.
- AEL_Fox

Yeah, Lindy's Primary Assists/60 is 3rd only behind Crosby and McDavid this year.

For the amount of Ice time he's had, he's made some great chances.

I've heard he can be kind of a douche but that is very anecdotal and vague. I also heard Toews loved him as a teammate in the WCH.

I have also heard that Sakic has an issue with the team's overall maturity and expects more specifically form landeskog, but also doesn't want to trade him, sees him as a guy he wants to build around.
- John Jaeckel

yeah, it why I mentioned nebulous at best. Especially given how well he has played for TC in international tournaments. He seems to find a niche in those situations and plays pretty well.

Expectations were CRAZY high for him here. Hawk fans will fixate on this prospect or that like they are second coming of Lord BeJesus, then once they're traded, they blow.

Just this year, everyone was all gaga over Schmaltz and Motte, and most pretty much looked at Hartman as a fourth line afterthought. Motte's in the minors and Schmaltz has come along a bit, but Hartman is really the jewel thus far.

But I think by the time TT left town, Hawk fans had a pretty good sense of the player he was and likely will be.

He has tons of skill and hockey sense, but it appears he will always be a perimeter up and down player. He just doesn't like the really rough going. And that dislike sometimes leads to poor possession plays.

AND he seems averse to the hard offseason work that would allow him to transcend the typecasting.

Could it change? I guess. I have my doubts.
- John Jaeckel

Big factor is that Hartman put in his time in Rockford. Play the AHL and learn the game, then when you're ready, you're ready. Everyone thinks top prospects will turn into 88 or 19 or even the likes of old Brandan Saad.

Not many can be put into a top line at a young age and succeed.

Big factor is that Hartman put in his time in Rockford. Play the AHL and learn the game, then when you're ready, you're ready. Everyone thinks top prospects will turn into 88 or 19 or even the likes of old Brandan Saad.

Not many can be put into a top line at a young age and succeed.
- stan-ley-cups

As JJ points out and has been pretty spot on about,

Saad did put in a half a season in the AHL and was pretty bad for the first 20-30 games in the NHL. Needed to learn the game, and boy did he. Being the manchild he was helped him a ton as well.

From the Department of Duh.

Also just heard, the Hawks are looking for a new home for McNeill, guessing that will be a very minor deal or part of a lesser deal.
- John Jaeckel

Send him for Connauton perhaps or maybe with Pokka for Eaves?

I know Lazar is on the outs in Ottawa but don't think there is a chance that Chicago gets him for McNeill and something

Crawford is elite and has gotten it done time and time again. I was watching the replay of Game 4 from the St. Louis series last year. Going into game four crow had given up 6 goals and was down 2-1 in the series. Since the Phoenix series in 10-11 series he has been exceptional. I think he is worth every penny, but him moving to another team is strictly cap based. Darling can be a #1 but we wont know til it's his cage to hold down.

From the Department of Duh.

Also just heard, the Hawks are looking for a new home for McNeill, guessing that will be a very minor deal or part of a lesser deal.
- John Jaeckel

I'm not holding my breath. Nobody claimed him when he was sent down to Rockford before the season started.

Crawford is elite and has gotten it done time and time again. I was watching the replay of Game 4 from the St. Louis series last year. Going into game four crow had given up 6 goals and was down 2-1 in the series. Since the Phoenix series in 10-11 series he has been exceptional. I think he is worth every penny, but him moving to another team is strictly cap based. Darling can be a #1 but we wont know til it's his cage to hold down.
- nickmo2699

He has looked good when called upon when CC has been on IR.

He has looked good when called upon when CC has been on IR.
- breadbag

Agreed! But the entire season load is a different animal. If he gets the cage as our number one next year, I am pulling for him!

He has looked good when called upon when CC has been on IR.
- breadbag

No he hasnt. This is why teams doubt Darlings ability as a true #1 .

Hartman - yes, he has upside. As a premier BOTTOM six player. At the end of the day, if moving him gets you that coveted TOP six guy now, you have to consider it because it could mean a real run at the cup. Especially if that top six guy can be re-signed to stay. If they win again, then blow up the team.

Crawford - whether you move him or not depends on a lot of variables ALL working in the Hawks' favor.

1. Will he consent to any proposed trade? Empirical evidence says he is selective.
2. How much would Darling sign for to be the #1? He is UFA, so all bets are off.
3. How much does a new #2 cost, which you will need whether 50 or 33 is your #1?
4. Look at the goalie market - no one is buying, let alone anyone at $6MM.

If it is about saving cap, the above math has to show there is enough savings to be had, a location CC's money can be paid, and a location where he would consent to go to. I don't think any of this thinking can even begin until the FO gets a number from 33. That won't happen until his agent says it will. I would guess that will be a long way from now.

No he hasnt. This is why teams doubt Darlings ability as a true #1 .
- mrpaulish

Yep, Darling was a mixed bag while Crawford was on IR this year.

Dec. 3rd Darling made 27 saves in Saturday's 3-1 loss to the Flyers.

Dec 4: Darling allowed two goals and made 30 saves in a 2-1 loss to the Jets on Sunday.

Dec 6: Darling shut out the Coyotes on Tuesday, stopping 22 shots en route to a 4-0 win.

Dec 10: Darling saved 36 of 37 shots during Friday's overtime loss to New York.

Dec 11: Darling continued his stellar season and allowed just one goal in a 3-1 victory over the Stars on Sunday.

Dec 13: Darling denied the Rangers on 33 of 34 shots to claim a 2-1 road victory Tuesday.

Dec 15: Darling allowed four goals on 29 shots but still captured a victory over the Islanders on Thursday. His save percentage isn't going to suggest he had a great game, but after yielding three goals in the first period, Darling stopped 17-of-18 attempts in the final two stanzas. Despite allowing four goals, he is 3-0-1 with a 1.40 GAA in his last five appearances. Overall, Darling is 8-2-2 with a 2.18 GAA and .927 save percentage this season.

Dec 17: Darling allowed four goals on 27 shots in a 6-4 victory over the Blues on Saturday.

Dec 18: Darling stopped 33 of 34 shots in a 4-1 victory over the Sharks on Sunday. This was a nice bounce back performance after Darling allowed four goals in each of his last two starts. Darling still won both those games, though, and extended his winning streak to five with Sunday's win. He is 6-0-1 with a 1.71 GAA and .943 save percentage.

Dec 20: Darling gave up four goals for the third time in four starts Tuesday, making 26 saves in a loss to the Senators. A three-goal second period by Ottawa doomed him in this one, putting an end to Darling's five-game winning streak. Indeed, he's come away with wins each of the three other times this season that he's given up four goals; that's just what happens when you backstop the Blackhawks. Still, it seems like extended exposure to the league isn't all that good for Darling, as he tends to stumble when his workload rises. That said, both his season stats and his numbers since Corey Crawford (appendix) hit the shelf are pretty stellar. However, Crawford may be back to retake his net as soon as Friday's game against Colorado.

No he hasnt. This is why teams doubt Darlings ability as a true #1 .
- mrpaulish

What are you basing this on? He has had basically the same success Crawford has over the last 3 years. He plays a bit of a different style, but you really can argue much with the results.

I'm not proclaiming that he will be a top 5 if given the net, but you can't say there isn't strong evidence that he could be.

What are you basing this on? He has had basically the same success Crawford has over the last 3 years. He plays a bit of a different style, but you really can argue much with the results.

I'm not proclaiming that he will be a top 5 if given the net, but you can't say there isn't strong evidence that he could be.
- Chunk

\See above.

Mixbag is the perfect term.

God I love it when Wiz gets under the bloggers skin... it makes me LOL

Then again, it isn't really all that hard to do. He went to Knox college (is that school even accredited?). I always pegged that as one step below University of Phoenix online, and one step above Sister Mary of the Blind University.
- Katana777

How do you manage to talk so much poop without getting banned? Is there some secret you have? And don't get me wrong I'm not mad, I'm actually jealous.