[quote=nbartley9]This year is going to be fun for so many reasons, the one I am looking forward to the most is the fact that Johnston will not put all of his effort into trying to be the players buddy, cough Bylsma cough. He is going to hold everyone accountable, atleast from what I have heard about him that's what seems like he will try do to. This is going to really be different to what this team is used to, and I believe its going to have the biggest impact on Sutturd and Geno; and I think both players are going to handle it in different ways. I think its going to be the kick in the ass that Geno needs, and will greatly improve his mindset and play. Sutter is not going to have the same positive reaction, he will be delegated to the 4th line before Christmas.


I'm anxious to see how Geno's mindset changes will the exit of Neal, I'm guessing he doesn't take as many stupid penalties and is more settled in general.
F sutturd
- Bradlee3

Sutturd is catchy huh haha??

Isles and Minn are the most logical trading partners. Martin has some leverage though with his LMC. I think 87 and 71 don't need a Kane or Eberle. More like Okposo or Grabner would be more likely. Look what 87 turned Dupes into.

Just saw on my FB feed that Go go is the Stars #1 Dman...Wow!
- sammy87

Would do Martin for Niederreiter or Haula and a pick.

To all the people complaining: Ryan makes no bones about his belief that Sutter is expendable due to the superiority of Goc or that Spalling is somewhat mediocre. That being said, stats don't lie. He's a blogger, and part of blogging is opinion. This isn't a feature article that requires objectivity, but still for the most part, Ryan's stat analysis are pretty accurate and fair, if somewhat blunt.

The point that Sutter's drop off came during a switch in system and a lock out shortened year is an important one, though, like someone mentioned. Also, by the time Flats came to town TK was beginning to drop off, which is something I think few Pens (and Sharks) fans would disagree with. Kennedy and Cooke just weren't the same line mates as the Kennedy and Cooke that Staal had some years past.

I think Sutter could have an awesome season this year with improved and consistent linemates. Also think Spalling could still pan. Doesn't mean that the stats from years past don't tell a story that we should be worried about.
- Victoro311

I agree entirely with the point about TK and Cooke. They were not the same aggressive players that Staal worked with.

Sutter might not be Staal, but he was damn good in last years playoffs.

I'm still waiting to see something from Spalling that makes me believe he was worth being a part of that deal. Obviously it's only pre-season, but so far it's meh....

Sutturd is catchy huh haha??
- nbartley9

It reminds me of something my dad would say.

It reminds me of something my dad would say.
- usethe1-2-2

Dad humor is the most genuine humor of them all so I will take that as a compliment

I'm not looking to convert anybody here. If you don't like stats it doesn't matter to me. I'm not telling anybody here how to view the game.
- Ryan_Wilson

Shouldn't it matter to some degree to you? After all, its your blog.

Telling your readers "it doesn't matter to me" .... not cool.

Shouldn't it matter to some degree to you? After all, its your blog.

Telling your readers "it doesn't matter to me" .... not cool.
- 87_71_11_29

I'm not going to tell you how to enjoy/experience the games. It's not my job. Frankly why would I worry about that?

Do you worry about how I watch baseball games?

Things from the past few days:

Kris Letang is not a #1 D. Ryan Suter is a #1D. Dough Drewey down in Los Angeles is a #1. Chara. Keith. Kris Letang is a #3. Instance the following:

Letang: 7.250M
goals/game 0.13
assists/game 0.41
points/game 0.547

Kevin Shattenkirk: 4.25M
goals/game 0.11
assists/game 0.42
points/game 0.546

Is someone out there seeing any of my point?

Anaheim and Pittsburgh had really strong regular seasons but without #1D have been bounced every season since they lost their respective #1s (Neidermayer and Gonchar). Letang and Cam Fowler are #3s. The teams having consistent playoff success since 2009 have had a #1D. Pittsburgh does not and they won't so long as they are paying Letang #1 money.

Bob McKenzie said that he 'has never seen a player of that stature take that much abuse' re: 87 last season in the playoffs and that he isn't sure that 'a player' would be enough of a deterrent to prevent that. The conversation turned to "if Sid was a Bruin, they have a few players who were a #1F and a #1D in Lucic and Chara that would make sure that kind of tactical abuse of a star player was mitigated".

http://www.tsn.ca/radio/m...ay-need-enforcers-1.94641

(McK never said that teams may need enforcers and went on to point out that Boston essentially cut Shawn Thornton from the roster. I have no idea who wrote the headline.)

Two points about that: Lucic purposefully avoids heavyweights at all times and I think he's way overrated, but I agree that Lucic would at least have tried to intimidate the Dubinskys and the Folignos of the league. Chris Kunitz, wearing an A, literally stood by while the abuse succeeded. The Penguins do not need a player with no tangible value to play 3 minutes in case Travis Hamonic is getting too rowdy. The Penguins need the payers on the ice with their skilled players to react, and that starts with leadership.

The Penguins, I hope, will draft about 6 giant forwards from Alberta in the next few years and keep doing so. If one or two of them become an impact forward in the mold of a young David Bolland or a Tanner Pearson, I would really feel better about the depth on the NHL roster as well as the relative amount of team toughness. Signing bottom six UFA don't usually yield the same kind of hunger as a kid coming into the league on a strong team at age 22.

Shouldn't it matter to some degree to you? After all, its your blog.

Telling your readers "it doesn't matter to me" .... not cool.
- 87_71_11_29

If you read between the lines and follow what has been going on, it is pretty obvious why he feels that way.
Look at the other bloggers and analytics/advanced stats guys who are getting picked up either by hockey teams(nhl or otherwise) or legit publications(not blogging on hockeybuzz). These pieces arent for us, they are for his resume to end up somewhere better. If you look at other pens blogs, namely thepensblog and pensburgh, the style of writing tends to differ greatly from this blog mainly because the other blogs aren't so much a jumping off point for other ventures as this one is. A lot of people dont mind seeing the game through the lens of advanced stats, but that is all this blog has become for the most part. There isnt much of the "fan" enthusiasm in the writing. Cold stats. The only issue I had with the write-up today is it is basically a re-written version of the article I posted from pensburgh. Seemed like he took that article and expanded on it and added his 2 cents with some extra stats thrown in. The titles of the articles basically say the same thing: "from staal to sutter and beyond, the evolution of the 3rd line" vs "something changed for the penguins after the 2012 playoffs". Guess what changed after 2012?

I'm not going to tell you how to enjoy/experience the games. It's not my job. Frankly why would I worry about that?

Do you worry about how I watch baseball games?
- Ryan_Wilson

We live in a society wherein some people feel that they are warranted an opinion on empirical data.

"Why use barometric pressure and models of helicity and wind speed when you can just look out the window to see if it's raining?"

Making a claim that data and tools which use it to enhance an understanding of player performance and valuation are ruining the spirit of the game and spoiling a fan's ability to evaluate the play for themselves is a non sequitur.

As much as I really don't care for Pierre McGuire...he said something I liked...and Greg Wyshynski sort of took it out of context (because that's what Yahoo does)...

But the main point Pierre made was this:

Q. “We gotta still be quite a ways away from at time when a coach is going to talk to a player after the game and is going to use analytics to explain what he did right or what he did wrong.”

PIERRE: “Any coach that does that should be terminated.”

Q. “HUH?!”

PIERRE: “You heard me. You challenge me all you want. Videotape is what they need to see. Players don’t think about, ‘If I block this shot, my analytic number is going to go five percent.’ Or ‘if I get five shots on goal, my analytic number is going to go up 10 percent.’ They have to look at the play. They have to decipher the situation. It’s about the play. It’s about the hockey sense. It’s about the peripheral vision. It’s about winning the race. There’s no number for that.”

“The tape doesn’t lie.”

“I will cede you this, because I was guilty as the next coach for doing this. You usually had eight 10-game meetings. You do the breakdown: ‘You were a plus-4 over these 10 games, you have five goals, etc.’ You have it all on a graph for a player, you break it down that way.”

“I thought the key to those meetings is that you’d have it all on a graph, but you’d have a video tape to back it up. The video was the key to the meeting. You’d read the numbers, but the tape was more valuable.”

http://sports.yahoo.com/b...yer-review-151106458.html

And I have always maintained that the numbers are only helpful if they can be used to help a coach or owner improve his team.

Clearly for a coach it has to go back to ...this is what we are doing right and wrong.

For owners, that might mean moving a guy...but each new combination of players creates a totally different dynamic and you need to see how that plays out to some extent before you can decide what to change.
- icedog97

I kind of agree with this. I don't know how many people are actually calling for coaches to show players the spreadsheets (probably not many), though.

Do you worry about how I watch baseball games?
- Ryan_Wilson

Only if you are wearing the skin of another human. But that might be a different issue altogether.

Dad humor is the most genuine humor of them all so I will take that as a compliment
- nbartley9

Dad jokes

Shouldn't it matter to some degree to you? After all, its your blog.

Telling your readers "it doesn't matter to me" .... not cool.
- 87_71_11_29

Dude if you don't like the blog then don't read it, it's like what Howard stern used to say when he was on free radio "if you don't like the show turn the channel"




Oops forgot: F Sutturd (it is catchy )

I kind of agree with this. I don't know how many people are actually calling for coaches to show players the spreadsheets (probably not many), though.
- BulliesPhan87

The summa of that argument seems to be that players are too innumerate to understand the same kind of arithmetic necessary to calculate the tip on a bill even as GMs are using it to calculate their dollar value as free agents.

This is either a tremendous disservice to the players or the players should be made to memorize their linear equation forms.

F Spaling.

The summa of that argument seems to be that players are too innumerate to understand the same kind of arithmetic necessary to calculate the tip on a bill even as GMs are using it to calculate their dollar value as free agents.

This is either a tremendous disservice to the players or the players should be made to memorize their linear equation forms.

F Spaling.
- Johnny Wrath

Your language annoys me.

Your language annoys me.
- Topshelf Mountain

We also live in a society wherein someone who announces that they are offended or irritated feels that they have in some way made a point.

The summa of that argument seems to be that players are too innumerate to understand the same kind of arithmetic necessary to calculate the tip on a bill even as GMs are using it to calculate their dollar value as free agents.

This is either a tremendous disservice to the players or the players should be made to memorize their linear equation forms.

F Spaling.
- Johnny Wrath

@copyright

Things from the past few days:

Kris Letang is not a #1 D. Ryan Suter is a #1D. Dough Drewey down in Los Angeles is a #1. Chara. Keith. Kris Letang is a #3. Instance the following:

Letang: 7.250M
goals/game 0.13
assists/game 0.41
points/game 0.547

Kevin Shattenkirk: 4.25M
goals/game 0.11
assists/game 0.42
points/game 0.546

Is someone out there seeing any of my point?

Anaheim and Pittsburgh had really strong regular seasons but without #1D have been bounced every season since they lost their respective #1s (Neidermayer and Gonchar). Letang and Cam Fowler are #3s. The teams having consistent playoff success since 2009 have had a #1D. Pittsburgh does not and they won't so long as they are paying Letang #1 money.

Bob McKenzie said that he 'has never seen a player of that stature take that much abuse' re: 87 last season in the playoffs and that he isn't sure that 'a player' would be enough of a deterrent to prevent that. The conversation turned to "if Sid was a Bruin, they have a few players who were a #1F and a #1D in Lucic and Chara that would make sure that kind of tactical abuse of a star player was mitigated".

http://www.tsn.ca/radio/m...ay-need-enforcers-1.94641

(McK never said that teams may need enforcers and went on to point out that Boston essentially cut Shawn Thornton from the roster. I have no idea who wrote the headline.)

Two points about that: Lucic purposefully avoids heavyweights at all times and I think he's way overrated, but I agree that Lucic would at least have tried to intimidate the Dubinskys and the Folignos of the league. Chris Kunitz, wearing an A, literally stood by while the abuse succeeded. The Penguins do not need a player with no tangible value to play 3 minutes in case Travis Hamonic is getting too rowdy. The Penguins need the payers on the ice with their skilled players to react, and that starts with leadership.

The Penguins, I hope, will draft about 6 giant forwards from Alberta in the next few years and keep doing so. If one or two of them become an impact forward in the mold of a young David Bolland or a Tanner Pearson, I would really feel better about the depth on the NHL roster as well as the relative amount of team toughness. Signing bottom six UFA don't usually yield the same kind of hunger as a kid coming into the league on a strong team at age 22.
- Johnny Wrath

You are hitting on a few different things and issues here that I don't feel like going completely into, but I will say this. Kris Letang has better gpg ppg than Suter. Can play very good hockey upwards of 25+ minutes per night in all situations including PP, PK, and dominates even strength hockey. He is a big minute guy on what is regularly one of the league's top power play and penalty kill. Over the past three seasons Letang has grown into a player capable of producing .65 points per game despite battling injury and terrible partners. The reason Pittsburgh has not had success does not start with Letang. He is not even close to the reason.
Average goaltending and poor depth, from both drafting and free agency is the downfall.

@copyright
- nbartley9

Okay, okay. I couldn't help myself.

The summa of that argument seems to be that players are too innumerate to understand the same kind of arithmetic necessary to calculate the tip on a bill even as GMs are using it to calculate their dollar value as free agents.

This is either a tremendous disservice to the players or the players should be made to memorize their linear equation forms.

F Spaling.
- Johnny Wrath

I don't think it's like that at all. It's not that players are stupid or can't understand the numbers, it's the the numbers are a symptom of the play on the ice. For coaches and management, numbers can tell you who's struggling and when, so you can put players in better positions to succeed (or not fail, i.e. in the pressbox). For players, though, I think it's more important to go through tape and work on tactics, technique, and whatnot.

We also live in a society wherein someone who announces that they are offended or irritated feels that they have in some way made a point.
- Johnny Wrath

Plain language argument > bloated verbage

Point Made

We also live in a society wherein someone who announces that they are offended or irritated feels that they have in some way made a point.
- Johnny Wrath

For sure. That includes those who're offended or irritated by "political correctness".

I don't think it's like that at all. It's not that players are stupid or can't understand the numbers, it's the the numbers are a symptom of the play on the ice. For coaches and management, numbers can tell you who's struggling and when, so you can put players in better positions to succeed. For players, though, I think it's more important to go through tape and work on tactics, technique, and whatnot.
- BulliesPhan87

Metrics are another way to find out what is wrong or right. It is not a solution, just a further detailed explanation.

Metrics are another way to find out what is wrong or right. It is not a solution, just a further detailed explanation.
- usethe1-2-2

That's one way of putting it. I think we're on the same page.