On the bright side, come April when you're set to draft top 3, you'll have something correct to be positive about.

James Tanner: Addition by Subtraction
How the Coyotes improved by getting rid of two of their top scorers.

I fully expect him to win the Calder and be a star in the NHL.
- James_Tanner

Lofty expectations.

I like Domi. I said it his draft year; I thought he was a top 5 pick that wouldn't go lower than 7. He's out scored his entire Junior draft class by a huge margin.

But to expect 20 goals and 40-45 points from any rookie is a lot. I don't care how good they are; said expectations are thrown around so loosely anymore. Domi is going to be a very good player, but he's not even guaranteed to make the team.

I remember thinking Claude Giroux was a shoe-in after scoring 2pts per game in his final playoffs in the Q. He started that next season with the Phantoms. I fully expect Domi to play a significant portion of the year in Arizona, but the possibility always exists that he does not.

Being a smaller rookie in a system like Tippets, Yotes fans should be ecstatic if Domi scores 30-35 points if he plays anywhere from 70-82 games. That's a damn good rookie year, especially out west. If I'm picking an early Calder favorite, it's Drouin without question. I don't think Domi will give him much of a fight for that trophy, but stranger things have certainly happened in sports. It's not at all unrealistic that he's at lest a finalists for the award, again, if he spends most of the year in Arizona.

To say you "fully expect" him to win the Calder though, at least to me, is a tad bit ridiculous.

i might buy the argument that the loss of those 2 doesn't necessarily make the team that much worse but to say it will actually make them better is a big stretch.

Your thinking is that given first line minutes, 2nd or 3rd line players will produce more points. That is probably true but only to an extent(and i bet it's less than what you're hoping for), they will reach a point of diminishing returns where more time will not lead to more points. It's simply because they don't have the skill of a 1st line player, otherwise they would actually be first line players and not just on offensively starved Arizona.

as others have pointed out, Sam has never actually hit 50 points AND that was when playing with the Oilers young but very skilled forwards. To think he will have a career year while playing with new line mates who are MUCH less skilled then whom he was playing with on the top 6 in Edmonton is also a big stretch.

You`re mistaken. Gagner scored at a 65 point pace during the lockout shortened year and was set to demolish those totals last year when he had his face caved in during the preseason. When he rushed back, he was not himself. He will be fully recovered this year and I expect him to build on his 65 point pace and come in around 70.

Based on his talent and his age, 25, he is a prime breakout candidate.
- James_Tanner

So you're basing your argument on what "could" have happened during the past 2 seasons, not what actually did(i.e. stats) happen?.....that makes for an extremely weak argument i suppose.

I'm not denying he's good. Like I said I don't know much about him. Giroux also didn't have to be the guy right away. He had a strong offensive supporting cast in philly. Domi does not have the same offesnsive supporting cast and will be facing the Webers, suters, and doughtys of the league. It's going to be a tough rookie campaign for domi IMO
- kessellover69

That might be true, but they can still shelter him a bit. I doubt he'll be on the first line.

(citing ESPN in an effort to make somebody else look like an "idot" made me LOL)
- Tomahawk

I don't know, I am pretty much a total idot.

So you're basing your argument on what "could" have happened during the past 2 seasons, not what actually did(i.e. stats) happen?.....that makes for an extremely weak argument i suppose.
- nikel

Actually that doesn't make for a weak argument at all. See, what actually happens is just one of many probabilities and one of the biggest weaknesses by analysts the world over, no matter what it is they are analyzing, is to place too much emphasis on what actually occurred, thus creating a bias towards events dependent on variables no more or less likely to repeat themselves than ones that would have altered reality in the first place.

So, yes, not only is it plausible to base an argument on what could have been, it is very much more often the better way to do things.

Actually that doesn't make for a weak argument at all. See, what actually happens is just one of many probabilities and one of the biggest weaknesses by analysts the world over, no matter what it is they are analyzing, is to place too much emphasis on what actually occurred, thus creating a bias towards events dependent on variables no more or less likely to repeat themselves than ones that would have altered reality in the first place.

So, yes, not only is it plausible to base an argument on what could have been, it is very much more often the better way to do things.
- James_Tanner

That's one hell of a sentence.

You`re mistaken. Gagner scored at a 65 point pace during the lockout shortened year and was set to demolish those totals last year when he had his face caved in during the preseason. When he rushed back, he was not himself. He will be fully recovered this year and I expect him to build on his 65 point pace and come in around 70.

Based on his talent and his age, 25, he is a prime breakout candidate.
- James_Tanner

Lars Eller was on par for 68 points in that same season...

You can't take the lockout season as a sample.

Lars Eller was on par for 68 points in that same season...

You can't take the lockout season as a sample.
- WaterBoy

Subban, Norris*

Lars Eller was on par for 68 points in that same season...

You can't take the lockout season as a sample.
- WaterBoy

Remember when Eller scored 4 goals in one game? He also got his face caved in.

The similarities are eerie. They both suck.

Remember when Eller scored 4 goals in one game? He also got his face caved in.

The similarities are eerie. They both suck.
- stormey

You know who sucks more ? The Jets.

You know who sucks more ? The Jets.
- WaterBoy

Well....not sure if it's more but...pretty close.

Well....not sure if it's more but...pretty close.
- stormey

I can live with that.

Subban, Norris*
- Pea-Brain

9M

(citing ESPN in an effort to make somebody else look like an "idot" made me LOL)
- Tomahawk

That was just one small part of my argument. Can you honestly tell me you have in you top ten prospects not in nhl. I dont think he will make my top 20. It is just showing he will not be anywhere close to 100 point player.

That's one hell of a sentence.
- stormey

That's why they call me the Thomas Pynchon of Coyotes Bloggers!

Lars Eller was on par for 68 points in that same season...

You can't take the lockout season as a sample.
- WaterBoy

No, but its a good indicator that he has more to offer than has been seen so far.

That's why they call me the Thomas Pynchon of Coyotes Bloggers!
- James_Tanner

Oh....I was wondering why that was.

That was just one small part of my argument. Can you honestly tell me you have in you top ten prospects not in nhl. I dont think he will make my top 20. It is just showing he will not be anywhere close to 100 point player.
- hanleyaj

No one has seen enough of players to make a real top prospect list that is anything but guessing. The fact is, each team, player, blogger and fan will overrate their own prospects.

I think Druin will be a star player, but will he get the minutes on a stacked Lightning forward group that Domi will get in Az? I mean, i guess we could just talk the prospect list as factual and not write anything at all, but where would the fun in that be?

No one has seen enough of players to make a real top prospect list that is anything but guessing. The fact is, each team, player, blogger and fan will overrate their own prospects.

I think Druin will be a star player, but will he get the minutes on a stacked Lightning forward group that Domi will get in Az? I mean, i guess we could just talk the prospect list as factual and not write anything at all, but where would the fun in that be?
- James_Tanner

Chances are Drouin will play with Stamkos.

James Tanner has to be the most biased writer ever. He knows very little about hockey and vastly over values your players and way to optimistic. You dont loose you to most successful forwards and only get gagner and be better. Gagne couldnt cut it in the top six in edmenton and you are expecting him to be on your first line. It wont work. When you move players up from third line to second it make your team worse no matter what. You will be less deep and not be able to run three lines. Then your expecting a rookie to be one of your leading scorers on you team hahahahahaha good luck!!!!

Chances are Drouin will play with Stamkos.
- WaterBoy

Eventually I'd think that would be the plan. However he's a LW and you'd think he'd start the year behind Palat and Kilorn.

Chances are Drouin will play with Stamkos.
- WaterBoy

Drouin with stammer = automatic calder

I prefer sunshine and lolipops.
- James_Tanner

If's, but's... Candy, nuts... that old chestnut!