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Forums :: Blog World :: James Tanner: Joe Thornton Available? Coyotes Gotta Make That Move
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Antilles
St Louis Blues
Joined: 10.17.2008

May 31 @ 9:38 PM ET
Well, nobody knows the exact situation with his or Marleau's NMC. There's a good chance their NMC's were offset by the fact that the team was eliminated in round 1. Often times NMC's are attached with certain expectations or goals in order for them to be set in place.
- sjsharks92


Have a source for this? I'm relatively certain this is impossible. Thornton and Marleau's contracts were both signed prior to them turning 35. You can only have items in a contract related to performance in entry level contracts and 35+ contracts, and even then, it is very strict about what the bonuses can be and what they can be for.

Do you have any example of a NMC being related to team performance? The only times I've seen modified NMC clauses, it's either only during certain time periods, or the player has to submit a certain number of teams during certain times, that sort of thing. Never is it tied to team performance. As I said, pretty sure that's because CBA doesn't allow it.
sjsharks92
San Jose Sharks
Location: San Jose, CA
Joined: 07.13.2010

May 31 @ 9:47 PM ET
Have a source for this? I'm relatively certain this is impossible. Thornton and Marleau's contracts were both signed prior to them turning 35. You can only have items in a contract related to performance in entry level contracts and 35+ contracts, and even then, it is very strict about what the bonuses can be and what they can be for.

Do you have any example of a NMC being related to team performance? The only times I've seen modified NMC clauses, it's either only during certain time periods, or the player has to submit a certain number of teams during certain times, that sort of thing. Never is it tied to team performance. As I said, pretty sure that's because CBA doesn't allow it.

- Antilles

I have no sources for that, other than fan banter here and on hockey forums. So with that said, that info is probably incorrect. However, if the Sharks wanted to move Joe or Patty and told either of them they were no longer wanted, I have no doubt a deal would be worked out.
dcz28
Detroit Red Wings
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 08.20.2006

May 31 @ 11:20 PM ET
Sounds like you may want to sign Dan Boyle then.
- sjsharks92


I wouldn't mind Boyle on a one year deal...two if they can't get him on one but lower salary. Even with Boyle added I would still want the Wings to trade for another right handed shooting defenseman. Wings have none right now until prospects like Sproul, Marchenko and Jensen (if they make it) are ready for full time.
Tucksfan
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: AB
Joined: 03.13.2013

May 31 @ 11:34 PM ET
I can see Spezza going to Phoenix, pending he would waive. Id love Thornton in Toronto! Wonder if Kadri, Gardiner, and maybe Reimer would be enough to do it.
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: avid reader of the daily douche news
Joined: 03.14.2014

May 31 @ 11:37 PM ET
Have a source for this? I'm relatively certain this is impossible. Thornton and Marleau's contracts were both signed prior to them turning 35. You can only have items in a contract related to performance in entry level contracts and 35+ contracts, and even then, it is very strict about what the bonuses can be and what they can be for.

Do you have any example of a NMC being related to team performance? The only times I've seen modified NMC clauses, it's either only during certain time periods, or the player has to submit a certain number of teams during certain times, that sort of thing. Never is it tied to team performance. As I said, pretty sure that's because CBA doesn't allow it.

- Antilles


lupul had a ntc related to his team making the playoffs on his previous contract ... old cba. Things could be different now.
sjsharks92
San Jose Sharks
Location: San Jose, CA
Joined: 07.13.2010

May 31 @ 11:54 PM ET
I wouldn't mind Boyle on a one year deal...two if they can't get him on one but lower salary. Even with Boyle added I would still want the Wings to trade for another right handed shooting defenseman. Wings have none right now until prospects like Sproul, Marchenko and Jensen (if they make it) are ready for full time.
- dcz28

IF Boyle can recover from his concussion issues over this offseason, he could be a great asset for a team like the Red Wings next season. He was a shell of his former self this season due to concussion issues.
TheGame316
Joined: 11.18.2008

Jun 1 @ 12:47 AM ET
Thornton is not a first ballot hall of famer

his team not willing a Stanley Cup might not be held against him, but him coming up small in big games during the playoffs will...
Antilles
St Louis Blues
Joined: 10.17.2008

Jun 1 @ 1:34 AM ET
Thornton is not a first ballot hall of famer

his team not willing a Stanley Cup might not be held against him, but him coming up small in big games during the playoffs will...

- TheGame316


Whether or not his is first ballot depends entirely on the players that retire the same year he does.
James Tanner
Joined: 12.21.2013

Jun 1 @ 4:27 AM ET
Whether or not his is first ballot depends entirely on the players that retire the same year he does.
- Antilles



It really doesn't. If you look of players who came into the league after Lindros and Jagr and before Crosby and Ovechkin, he is the best.

Seriously, ,name a better player who came into the league 1997- 2005 ? I don't even think it's up for debate: Joe could retire tomorrow and be in the Hall the day his eligible.
James Tanner
Joined: 12.21.2013

Jun 1 @ 4:29 AM ET
I can see Spezza going to Phoenix, pending he would waive. Id love Thornton in Toronto! Wonder if Kadri, Gardiner, and maybe Reimer would be enough to do it.
- Tucksfan



That would be a horrible trade for the Leafs. The last thing Toronto needs to do is move either Kadri or Gardiner.

I'd pay more for Thornton than Spezza.
dps0610
Carolina Hurricanes
Location: Raleigh, NC
Joined: 03.04.2014

Jun 1 @ 5:23 AM ET
You want the Staals? You can take those contracts off our hands.
Tweek
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 04.20.2010

Jun 1 @ 6:38 AM ET
It really doesn't. If you look of players who came into the league after Lindros and Jagr and before Crosby and Ovechkin, he is the best.

Seriously, ,name a better player who came into the league 1997- 2005 ? I don't even think it's up for debate: Joe could retire tomorrow and be in the Hall the day his eligible.

- James_Tanner


Off the top of my head, Hossa gives Jumbo a run for his money. Worse offensive numbers (.91 career ppg vs .99), but Hossa plays a stronger defensive and overall game.
Tucksfan
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: AB
Joined: 03.13.2013

Jun 1 @ 8:34 AM ET
That would be a horrible trade for the Leafs. The last thing Toronto needs to do is move either Kadri or Gardiner.

I'd pay more for Thornton than Spezza.

- James_Tanner


at least one of those two would need to be involved for Thornton. Not that i see it happening, but Id be fine with moving Gardiner.
Antilles
St Louis Blues
Joined: 10.17.2008

Jun 1 @ 8:48 AM ET
It really doesn't. If you look of players who came into the league after Lindros and Jagr and before Crosby and Ovechkin, he is the best.

Seriously, ,name a better player who came into the league 1997- 2005 ? I don't even think it's up for debate: Joe could retire tomorrow and be in the Hall the day his eligible.

- James_Tanner


Well, let's look at your suggestion he could retire tomorrow and be in 1st ballot. All it would take is a couple guys retiring this summer to bring that into serious question. Selanne is already done. If Jagr and Brodeur were to hang them up this summer as well, suddenly you have 3 guys almost guaranteed to be in line in front of Thornton. Now, let's say Chris Pronger decides to mail in his retirement papers because he gets a coaching job. Suddenly Joe's first ballot spot is questionable. Or instead say a guy like Alfreddson retires. I'd put Thornton in before him, but it's not a sure thing. Sure, this is a lot of ifs, but all of them are at least plausible.

Looking a few years down the line at people who will be 35+ and might retire when Thorton does, he might be fighting to get in against Pronger, Chara, Iginla, Datysuk, Zetterberg & Hossa. Pronger is the only defensemen to win a Hart since Orr. Datsyuk and Zetterberg's PPG are slightly behind Thornton, but their names are actually on the Cup and scored while be amazing defensively, both of which matter. Iginla's numbers are behind Thornton, but he spent most of his career without the sort of help Joe's almost always had. Hossa's numbers aren't as good, but plays better defense, and again, name on the Cup. Chara deserves to go in as well, possibly before Thornton. I'm not saying Thornton won't be first ballot, or that I think all these guys deserve to go in before him; but I definitely it's no sure thing. It depends on who he is going up against.

First ballot Hall of Famer, to me, is a term for guys guaranteed in right away, regardless of who else is up. Names like Lidstrom or Brodeur.
James Tanner
Joined: 12.21.2013

Jun 1 @ 12:40 PM ET
Well, let's look at your suggestion he could retire tomorrow and be in 1st ballot. All it would take is a couple guys retiring this summer to bring that into serious question. Selanne is already done. If Jagr and Brodeur were to hang them up this summer as well, suddenly you have 3 guys almost guaranteed to be in line in front of Thornton. Now, let's say Chris Pronger decides to mail in his retirement papers because he gets a coaching job. Suddenly Joe's first ballot spot is questionable. Or instead say a guy like Alfreddson retires. I'd put Thornton in before him, but it's not a sure thing. Sure, this is a lot of ifs, but all of them are at least plausible.

Looking a few years down the line at people who will be 35+ and might retire when Thorton does, he might be fighting to get in against Pronger, Chara, Iginla, Datysuk, Zetterberg & Hossa. Pronger is the only defensemen to win a Hart since Orr. Datsyuk and Zetterberg's PPG are slightly behind Thornton, but their names are actually on the Cup and scored while be amazing defensively, both of which matter. Iginla's numbers are behind Thornton, but he spent most of his career without the sort of help Joe's almost always had. Hossa's numbers aren't as good, but plays better defense, and again, name on the Cup. Chara deserves to go in as well, possibly before Thornton. I'm not saying Thornton won't be first ballot, or that I think all these guys deserve to go in before him; but I definitely it's no sure thing. It depends on who he is going up against.

First ballot Hall of Famer, to me, is a term for guys guaranteed in right away, regardless of who else is up. Names like Lidstrom or Brodeur.

- Antilles


A good thoughful response, but realistically there aren't going to be four cherry picked superstars retiring the same time. To me Joe is the best player of his generation and just behind guys who came before and after him like Jagr or Crosby.
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