Gardiner, Kadri, Reimer for Seabrook & 1st

Being in the Neutral position of where I hate the Leafs, but also think ROR is extremely overated (Even though He's a really good player), I'll weight in.

ROR - 22yo, RFA needing a Qualifying offer of 6.5mil/1 year of he becomes a free agent. Potential to become a really good two way forward and put up 60points annually. Although he's really young and it's hard to know what he will actually become, all signs point to being a two way player which aren't that rare in the NHL and are not worth the 6.5.

Reilly - 18yo, RFA for 3 more seasons @ 900k. He has the current talent to be a top 6 D on all NHL teams. Is expected to be a top pair defenceman by age of 25 where Ds usually blossom. In 3 years it is unlikely that he signs for more than 5mil, even if he is very good as Ds have less leverage to negotiate big contracts.

Verdict, Reilly is worth more than ROR in a trade scenario.
- l3ig_l2ecl

Just throwing out my 2 cents as one of the less crazy avs fans on this site.

I think RoR's value is tough for people to determine because it is harder to quantify a players strengths in defensive zone as you cant just compare goals, points, ect. So I dont think we will ever agree as to what he is worth (obviously not Hall though).

Also there is no "potential" about it. RoR is a 60pt player. He is on pace for 60pts this year (also a large percent of those are goals not assists), was last year and reached 55 points the year before that (the last 2 being under Sacco making it more impressive). His 2 way game is top notch and that aspect of his game is underrated (generally, not by some of the Avs homers)

Finally, RoR can choose to sign a contract for any amount and any length at any time. It is only if his current contract runs out that the QO kicks in. If it wasnt for this whole contract dispute last year RoR would have been an Av for life.

I have accepted that there is a chance that RoR will be traded, but if he is I hope its not to the leafs, because with all due respect, and while I like the leafs I feel that many of their players are overrated, especially Gards.

We will see, although I doubt this happens.

Gardiner, Kadri, Reimer for Seabrook & 1st
- MCharisma91

In normal situations, neither team does the deal. Rielly has the potential to be more than O'Rielly, and probably wouldn't have been there at 5 if he hadn't been injured his draft year. As it stands, the Leafs were lucky that the Islanders saw something in Rienhart.

The thing is, Colorado is a bit of a motivated seller with ROR, because of his upcoming contract demands, and the depth at center.

And Toronto would be in a pinch with the cap if they had to try and accommodate the 6M he's going to get... there's also a bit more risk in some team offer sheeting him, forcing the Leafs to pay even more.


All in all, I think it's a worse trade for Toronto than for Colorado... and whether Colorado would do it or not, from a Leafs perspective, it's worth the
- Feeling Glucky?

Hence why I understand why the leafs wouldnt do it.

But at least be in a position to understand why Colorado would have reservations as well.

Salary issues cause it to be difficult for the Leafs to stomach.
Another problem lies in what people project for ROR. He was never ever touted to be what he is already. Their draft positions seem to have placed different potentials on what they could become, or what they already are.

Rielly MAY become more than what ROR already is. Hence why its a risk on either side.

But are, in my opinion, only warranted for the utterly ridiculous proposals, and I dont think this is.

Do I think the avs should trade ROR for Rielly? No.

Do I think the leafs should trade Rielly for ROR? No.

But thats the only thing that would make sense for Colorado IF a deal were to occur between them.

Hence why I understand why the leafs wouldnt do it.

But at least be in a position to understand why Colorado would have reservations as well.

Salary issues cause it to be difficult for the Leafs to stomach.
Another problem lies in what people project for ROR. He was never ever touted to be what he is already. Their draft positions seem to have placed different potentials on what they could become, or what they already are.

Rielly MAY become more than what ROR already is. Hence why its a risk on either side.

But are, in my opinion, only warranted for the utterly ridiculous proposals, and I dont think this is.

Do I think the avs should trade ROR for Rielly? No.

Do I think the leafs should trade Rielly for ROR? No.

But thats the only thing that would make sense for Colorado IF a deal were to occur between them.
- eddieavs

One more thing about O'Reilly- we don;t actually know if he's going to grow much more as a player... he got drafted as a guy who was very physically ready, and that's why he made the NHL and had an impact right away. With a lot of players, a lot of their early growth has to do with them filling out, and developing the ability to play against men vs other teens. Obviously the smarts increase, but that reflects more in defensive play than offense.

I agree. Burke has been too slow here. This is desperate situation.
- Eklund

What's the rush? 2 bad weeks and they are supposed to blow-up their rebuild? Isn't this what most expected?

Just throwing out my 2 cents as one of the less crazy avs fans on this site.

I think RoR's value is tough for people to determine because it is harder to quantify a players strengths in defensive zone as you cant just compare goals, points, ect. So I dont think we will ever agree as to what he is worth (obviously not Hall though).

Also there is no "potential" about it. RoR is a 60pt player. He is on pace for 60pts this year (also a large percent of those are goals not assists), was last year and reached 55 points the year before that (the last 2 being under Sacco making it more impressive). His 2 way game is top notch and that aspect of his game is underrated (generally, not by some of the Avs homers)

Finally, RoR can choose to sign a contract for any amount and any length at any time. It is only if his current contract runs out that the QO kicks in. If it wasnt for this whole contract dispute last year RoR would have been an Av for life.

I have accepted that there is a chance that RoR will be traded, but if he is I hope its not to the leafs, because with all due respect, and while I like the leafs I feel that many of their players are overrated, especially Gards.

We will see, although I doubt this happens.
- Meeqsb

You have to be careful at assuming what a young kid is going to be. To suggest that he's going to be a 60+point annually for ever is a little premature. Sure he put up 55points 2 years ago, was on pace for 55 last year, and on pace for 54 this year, but it's simply premature at age 22.

Would I take him on the Habs? Hell yes, but I summed it out the way it is without bias and he is not worth more than Reilly in a trade. Mainly because of his contract situation.

Now if he was signed long-term at 5mil cap hit, that would be totally different.

Fixed...
- Iggysbff

If Gaudreau is included, you don't get a 1st. Maybe a 3rd.

I don't get why buff doesn't lose weight, he would still be a big man and probably better if he would turn focus more on fitness. Very weird point that I've always thought of and just wante to see what other people thought

The reason why Kane isn't on the ice is because he's nursing a hand injury. Noel just announced he's doubtful for the game on Sat. Likely hurt it during his scrap with Brewer.

I don't get why buff doesn't lose weight, he would still be a big man and probably better if he would turn focus more on fitness. Very weird point that I've always thought of and just wante to see what other people thought
- steveromanowski

I'd imagine for a guy of his size it's not easy, especially if playing pro hockey 8 months of the year isn't doing much.

One more thing about O'Reilly- we don;t actually know if he's going to grow much more as a player... he got drafted as a guy who was very physically ready, and that's why he made the NHL and had an impact right away. With a lot of players, a lot of their early growth has to do with them filling out, and developing the ability to play against men vs other teens. Obviously the smarts increase, but that reflects more in defensive play than offense.
- Feeling Glucky?

We never know if someone is going to grow any more as a player, we just have better assumptions for some than other. That is one of the most foolish points I have ever seen someone try and make on here to date.

I don't get why buff doesn't lose weight, he would still be a big man and probably better if he would turn focus more on fitness. Very weird point that I've always thought of and just wante to see what other people thought
- steveromanowski

Oh I've wondered about it. Remember this last year?

One more thing about O'Reilly- we don;t actually know if he's going to grow much more as a player... he got drafted as a guy who was very physically ready, and that's why he made the NHL and had an impact right away. With a lot of players, a lot of their early growth has to do with them filling out, and developing the ability to play against men vs other teens. Obviously the smarts increase, but that reflects more in defensive play than offense.
- Feeling Glucky?

ROR jumped into the NHL because of his hockey IQ and his ability to play defense. He may have been a good size, but thats got nothing to do with him starting in the NHL. He played 3rd line center, with close to no offensive opportunities, and played penalty kill. He was utilized purely as a defensive forward, because of his IQ. His major problem was his skating. So, no, he wasnt completely physically developed.

Problem with your assessment is that his offense has significantly improved.

Im really confused. How many 22 year olds of ROR's calibre, peak at that age?

Eklund: Rumor Update. On the Rangers, Byfuglien, the Leafs, the Jets, the Preds+
- Eklund

What about Brian Raflski? He is going back to NHL?

One more thing about O'Reilly- we don;t actually know if he's going to grow much more as a player... he got drafted as a guy who was very physically ready, and that's why he made the NHL and had an impact right away. With a lot of players, a lot of their early growth has to do with them filling out, and developing the ability to play against men vs other teens. Obviously the smarts increase, but that reflects more in defensive play than offense.
- Feeling Glucky?

And you can say the same thing about all young players, including Gardiner and Reilly. Too many times young players have looked good out of the gate and then never matched that level again.

At leaste with ROR you already know whats the minimum you are going to get, a 55-60pt 2 way player. Its a gamble either way, trading him, and who to trade for for equal young value. Ijust want to keep onto him and let him have another 8 years as an Avalanche

ROR jumped into the NHL because of his hockey IQ and his ability to play defense. He may have been a good size, but thats got nothing to do with him starting in the NHL. He played 3rd line center, with close to no offensive opportunities, and played penalty kill. He was utilized purely as a defensive forward, because of his IQ. His major problem was his skating. So, no, he wasnt completely physically developed.

Problem with your assessment is that his offense has significantly improved.

Im really confused. How many 22 year olds of ROR's calibre, peak at that age?
- eddieavs

I dunno Kadri?

You have to be careful at assuming what a young kid is going to be. To suggest that he's going to be a 60+point annually for ever is a little premature. Sure he put up 55points 2 years ago, was on pace for 55 last year, and on pace for 54 this year, but it's simply premature at age 22.

Would I take him on the Habs? Hell yes, but I summed it out the way it is without bias and he is not worth more than Reilly in a trade. Mainly because of his contract situation.

Now if he was signed long-term at 5mil cap hit, that would be totally different.
- l3ig_l2ecl

I think after 3 years in a row, playing in multiple positions, with multiple players, and under different coaches with the same result is about as far from premature as you can get. I think it is very rare to see players regress after that kind of showing, in fact I cant think of a single player.

Also I am only speaking for RoR individually, not of the trade. I dont know enough about Reilly as a player (granted he will obviously be very good) as well as the development of defensive players to accurately evaluate my opinion on it.

I really think we are going to have to wait and see what happens with RoR and then break down the trade once it happens.

I dunno Kadri?
- DDM-Coga

And you can say the same thing about all young players, including Gardiner and Reilly. Too many times young players have looked good out of the gate and then never matched that level again.

At leaste with ROR you already know whats the minimum you are going to get, a 55-60pt 2 way player. Its a gamble either way, trading him, and who to trade for for equal young value. Ijust want to keep onto him and let him have another 8 years as an Avalanche
- DDM-Coga

and I can't blame you. I'd take him any day on the Leafs.


But not for Rielly.

You have to be careful at assuming what a young kid is going to be. To suggest that he's going to be a 60+point annually for ever is a little premature. Sure he put up 55points 2 years ago, was on pace for 55 last year, and on pace for 54 this year, but it's simply premature at age 22.

Would I take him on the Habs? Hell yes, but I summed it out the way it is without bias and he is not worth more than Reilly in a trade. Mainly because of his contract situation.

Now if he was signed long-term at 5mil cap hit, that would be totally different.
- l3ig_l2ecl

So he put up 55 pts 2 years ago, paced for 55 last year, and is pacing again for 54 this year, despite playing out of position.

But its premature to say that he could get about 5+ more points every year when hes only 22 years old. Are we really going to nitpick for 5 points.

It would be interesting to see if the avs could get at least an average amount of PP time.

You guys are arguing with glucky?

You guys are arguing with glucky?
- Symba007

If you're the Leafs, do you trade Rielly for ROR?

and I can't blame you. I'd take him any day on the Leafs.


But not for Rielly.
- Feeling Glucky?

Rielly would be untouchable for you, I know. Plus If I had to see ROR go, I wouldnt want a player like Reilly, and what I mean about that is a young player with some growing pains regardless of how great he can be. I would rather have a more established young Dman instead, so we get the impact now instead of later

If you're the Leafs, do you trade Rielly for ROR?
- Feeling Glucky?

One more thought on ROR vs Reilly thing.

Reilly is currently worth a 1st round 5th overall in the eyes of Toronto. It would be smarter for them to him to an offersheet and lose a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd than to lose a 1st that is working out for them. Especially if they believe they will make the playoffs, so those picks are not that good.