Bernier's played more than 20 games in a season once. I don't know how you can assert that he's got experience. He's an inexperienced goaltender. The Leafs are taking a calculated chance.
- Michael_Stuart

Calculated risk if they didn't have a starting goalie already.

Ok maybe... so what if we throw in a roster player too... say... Joe Colborne (My guess is he plays full time with the Leafs next year if he plays for the Leafs next year) to help easy the Centre position with the loss of Vinny?
- thehockeygod

Still not even close. If the Lightning are eating some of Vinny's salary, he's worth a ton more. He's a more than capable top-six center. You're asking for a top-six center with a reasonable cap hit (let's say the Lightning eat $2-3MM in your proposal), and the third overall pick for a bunch of spare parts.

Calculated risk if they didn't have a starting goalie already.
- MrBen

If Nonis was completely comfortable with Reimer he wouldn't have acquired Bernier.

If Nonis was completely comfortable with Reimer he wouldn't have acquired Bernier.
- Michael_Stuart

For the price it was a no brainer. Whether he plays for the Leafs or not.
Think of it this way. What has more value if the Leafs need to flip something? A pick in the 45-60 range, a 3rd line grinder who can't quite put it together and a undrafted college Free agent backup goalie....or Jon Bernier, hype machine, high first round pedigree goaltender. It's only money to the Leafs, they have no cap issues.

For the price it was a no brainer. Whether he plays for the Leafs or not.
Think of it this way. What has more value if the Leafs need to flip something? A pick in the 45-60 range, a 3rd line grinder who can't quite put it together and a undrafted college Free agent backup goalie....or Jon Bernier, hype machine, high first round pedigree goaltender. It's only money to the Leafs, they have no cap issues.
- MrBen

Absolutely correct, but that doesn't take away from the fact that Bernier comes with risk because of inexperience regardless of who he's playing for.

gentlemen, meet MrBen

Still not even close. If the Lightning are eating some of Vinny's salary, he's worth a ton more. He's a more than capable top-six center. You're asking for a top-six center with a reasonable cap hit (let's say the Lightning eat $2-3MM in your proposal), and the third overall pick for a bunch of spare parts.
- Michael_Stuart

Now just 2mil or even 1 mil or maybe we take the whole contract... the whole point is to see how much both sides are willing to give.... I see your point but maybe you guys will do anything to not have to pay Vinny's buyout entirely... that's why I started the offer the way I did. We retained salary from Frattin and Scrivens in the trade for Brenier, albeit not a whole lot buy the principal is what I'm referring to!

In the end if a trade in not done.. I am happy either way with our current situation.. which at the moment I would say is a little more then slightly better then yours... agree?

EDIT: Keep in mind Vinn'ys LONG contract and large salary.. think Like the OWNER of the Lighting...

Now just 2mil or even 1 mil or maybe we take the whole contract... the whole point is to see how much both sides are willing to give.... I see your point but maybe you guys will do anything to not have to pay Vinny's buyout entirely... that's why I started the offer the way I did. We retained salary from Frattin and Scrivens in the trade for Brenier, albeit not a whole lot buy the principal is what I'm referring to!

In the end if a trade in not done.. I am happy either way with our current situation.. which at the moment I would say is a little more then slightly better then yours... agree?
- thehockeygod

I don't know that I'd agree with that. When I look at the Lightning's prospect line, I'm a lot more impressed than I am with the Leafs's. Add Stamkos and Hedman, and I like our situation.

Thinking like an owner, I'd want to ice the most competitive team possible. Trading Lecavalier and a third overall pick for spare parts doesn't accomplish that at all.

gentlemen, meet MrBen


- Boltdolt84

WoW... That's Scott.. He's a ****...

South Park!

I don't know that I'd agree with that. When I look at the Lightning's prospect line, I'm a lot more impressed than I am with the Leafs's. Add Stamkos and Hedman, and I like our situation.
- Michael_Stuart

Def give you Stamcos... Given that we have Kessel.. who is turning out to be quite the backchecker under Carlyle BUT I like Reilly AND Gardiner and to some extent Khadri over Hedman and anything else you have in your system... until you draft either Jones or Druin if you retain your pick...

LoL.. sooo many options for both teams... but it Vinny's contract that kills you more then us overall...

PS I LOVE MARTY ST LOUIS! Class act all the way.

Def give you Stamcos... Given that we have Kessel.. who is turning out to be quite the backchecker under Carlyle BUT I like Reilly AND Gardiner and to some extent Khadri over Hedman and anything else you have in your system... until you draft either Jones or Druin if you retain your pick...

LoL.. sooo many options for both teams... but it Vinny's contract that kills you more then us overall...

PS I LOVE MARTY ST LOUIS! Class act all the way.
- thehockeygod

I'll re-iterate that THN has your franchised ranked 25th in Future Watch. That, for any fan, has to be concerning.

Def give you Stamcos... Given that we have Kessel.. who is turning out to be quite the backchecker under Carlyle BUT I like Reilly AND Gardiner and to some extent Khadri over Hedman and anything else you have in your system... until you draft either Jones or Druin if you retain your pick...

LoL.. sooo many options for both teams... but it Vinny's contract that kills you more then us overall...

PS I LOVE MARTY ST LOUIS! Class act all the way.
- thehockeygod

anyone who ranks Gardiner over Hedman doesn't watch much lightning hockey. Hedman plays first line minutes and was a positive player this season under a porous coaching system (was at +10 as late as midway point) and is still 22 (6 months younger than Gardiner btw) His offensive game is really set to take off under a better system and he's a potential all star.

as far as Lecavalier, yes your team makes more money than ours yearly, but that hardly impresses Vinik seeing as he's worth an est $600mil +. if he wanted his contract gone, it wouldn't be a sweat in the slightest. it's replacing a #1 C in Vinny who just happens to be our #2 and just fine and dandy with it. since you don't watch much lightning hockey, you wouldnt know how great he was playing before taking a sami salo slap shot to the foot breaking it. Michael can attest to this. he may even have more stats.. 32 points in 39 games, and definitely wasn't at the same level after the injury. he came in from the short camp pumped and was a huge factor why we started 6-1-0.

anyone who ranks Gardiner over Hedman doesn't watch much lightning hockey. Hedman plays first line minutes and was a positive player this season under a porous coaching system (was at +10 as late as midway point) and is still 22 (6 months younger than Gardiner btw) His offensive game is really set to take off under a better system and he's a potential all star.

as far as Lecavalier, yes your team makes more money than ours yearly, but that hardly impresses Vinik seeing as he's worth an est $600mil +. if he wanted his contract gone, it wouldn't be a sweat in the slightest. it's replacing a #1 C in Vinny who just happens to be our #2 and just fine and dandy with it. since you don't watch much lightning hockey, you wouldnt know how great he was playing before taking a sami salo slap shot to the foot breaking it. Michael can attest to this. he may even have more stats.. 32 points in 39 games, and definitely wasn't at the same level after the injury. he came in from the short camp pumped and was a huge factor why we started 6-1-0.
- Boltdolt84

He was playing as well as I've seen him play since 07-08. It was awesome.

He was playing as well as I've seen him play since 07-08. It was awesome.
- Michael_Stuart

I agree, I think his 2way play may have exceeded it. he had a jump in his step and I think his injury played a bigger part in the teams overall failure. I sincerely hope he comes back next year the same way. hard to imagine a full season (and camp!)without games crammed together wouldn't be preferable. I cant find it for the life of me but saw a strength of schedule list a while back that had TBL rated bottom 3 for worst schedule.

Michael Stuart: Lightning Blogger Roundtable on the Draft
- Michael_Stuart

With it being very likely that Jones will be gone by the time you pick at 3, would you be willing to trade down to 5, 7, or 8, gain valuable assets, and still get a defensemen with tremendous upside in Ristolainen?

What would it take for that to happen? From Buffalo, would it take the 8, 16, and Pysyk/McNabb, for example?

I am in the minority, but I think Ristolainen will be better then Jones in the NHL.

With it being very likely that Jones will be gone by the time you pick at 3, would you be willing to trade down to 5, 7, or 8, gain valuable assets, and still get a defensemen with tremendous upside in Ristolainen?

What would it take for that to happen? From Buffalo, would it take the 8, 16, and Pysyk/McNabb, for example?

I am in the minority, but I think Ristolainen will be better then Jones in the NHL.
- kingcong39

Interesting idea, but we can use Drouin as well. All we need is a defensive guy for a year or two until Korobov and Sustr make the jump.

NHL on TSN‏@NHLonTSN3m
According to @RenLavoieRDS the Lightning will buy out Vincent Lecavalier's contract. #TSN #NHL

Making room for Lu

Joking

With it being very likely that Jones will be gone by the time you pick at 3, would you be willing to trade down to 5, 7, or 8, gain valuable assets, and still get a defensemen with tremendous upside in Ristolainen?

What would it take for that to happen? From Buffalo, would it take the 8, 16, and Pysyk/McNabb, for example?

I am in the minority, but I think Ristolainen will be better then Jones in the NHL.
- kingcong39

We must respectfully decline. You want the 8th pick? You have to overpay for it with some NHL talent

Myers+8 or (I might be in the minority here) Vanek + 8 at half his cap hit. They're both overpayments but it's not like were the one's desperate to make a trade. We'd happy to draft Drouin/Jones at 3 so for us to trade that pick you'd have to offer something that would make us even happier

NHL on TSN‏@NHLonTSN3m
According to @RenLavoieRDS the Lightning will buy out Vincent Lecavalier's contract. #TSN #NHL

Making room for Lu

Joking
- VANTEL

Tough to see Vinny go, had some good times here but business is business and quite frankly his contract was bad for it. It'll be interesting to see who Yzerman brings in as a replacement in the short term.

Tough to see Vinny go, had some good times here but business is business and quite frankly his contract was bad for it. It'll be interesting to see who Yzerman brings in as a replacement in the short term.
- Icegirl94

Roy/Weiss/Riberio will be targeted.

How about Montreal... they must be licking their chops at the thought of signing Vinny. If they can sign him he'll likely range between 2-3 million given that he'll still be getting paid nearly 5 million per year by Tampa

We must respectfully decline. You want the 8th pick? You have to overpay for it with some NHL talent

Myers+8 or (I might be in the minority here) Vanek + 8 at half his cap hit. They're both overpayments but it's not like were the one's desperate to make a trade. We'd happy to draft Drouin/Jones at 3 so for us to trade that pick you'd have to offer something that would make us even happier
- Icegirl94

Vanek at half his pay and the 8th for your 3rd?
Buffalo would do that.

BTW, Pysyk is tremendous already and will only get better. I would despise trading him.

Tough to see Vinny go, had some good times here but business is business and quite frankly his contract was bad for it. It'll be interesting to see who Yzerman brings in as a replacement in the short term.
- Icegirl94

This is not business. This is the NHL throwing a temper tantrum. When Vinny signed a contract it was legal and accepted by the NHL. Now years into it they change their mind and say we are going to fine you 32 million dollars.

I don't know of any other business besides the MOB who conduct business like that. If I was TB I would file a lawsuit against the NHL . I know CBA . If you don't try you will never know. THere would be 10 other teams backing TB

The idea would be to replace St. Louis with a forward from this year's draft and then keep Gudas. The team also hasn't told Lecavalier he will be bought out. I can't imagine it happening this year. Possibly next.

EDIT - I also suggest that you check out some of Gudas's advanced stats. They paint a much different picture than the one you are trying to articulate.
- Michael_Stuart

https://twitter.com/RenLa...atuses/350234348647235584

Sometimes it's so easy being right all the time.

Paying him 2 million a year for the next 14 years not to play....lol

The price for the third overall pick just went up. Welcome to Tampa Sasha Barkov

Michael, why is something happening that you said would never happen. I thought you said Vinny is a god in Tampa and they would never buy out Vinny. I think you said it would be a marketing nightmare?

Poor vinny.