Bettman's proposal is pure PR posturing - the players would get eaten alive.

No way in hell Fehr agrees to it.

Pretty hilarious, though.
- Atomic Wedgie

Normally I am also very cynical, and might be inclined to agree with you. However in this case I completely disagree with the statement in bold.

At this point I think that the owners firmly believe they cannot operate with the PA's last proposal, that Fehr is the one keeping the players from thinking about this rationally and reasonably, and that if they cannot make the players see this they will have no choice but to cancel the season. I'm not arguing if they are right or wrong...but I do think that this is their thought process.

There is no benefit to a PR move to win fan support. Fan support is not going to get Fehr and the players to break.

Now, IF the above is right, for everyone who thinks that it is stupid for the owners to lose billions over a couple of hundred million, you have to ask yourselves why they would even consider this. Could it be that they personally hate Fehr and the union and want to break them? Possibly. But I have been in many negotiations where it was very contentious and one or both parties absolutely disliked the other, but personalities were put aside to get a deal they can live with.

So maybe, given the financials of ALL of the teams, this is not a deal they can live with.

What who does constantly?
- MJL

Various players. There are dozens of quotes saying..."Imagine if you make 50,000 and your boss tells you that you have to take a 10,000 pay cut. How would you feel".

Or variations of the same theme.

This whole thing is really just sad..... I believe that the owners and players are forgetting about the fans

Without fans you dont have huge paychecks

They need to pull their heads out of their hole and understand they need to think about the FANS

Various players. There are dozens of quotes saying..."Imagine if you make 50,000 and your boss tells you that you have to take a 10,000 pay cut. How would you feel".

Or variations of the same theme.
- TheGreat28

except, when comparing 50k to 40k, an average Joe would feel the pinch in their budget....now compare 5 million to 4 million...methinks they can still "survive".

Did you turn a blind eye, or distract the cashier while they filled their pockets?
- Colin Dambrauskas

Well, in this context let's assume that you had no involvement in the crime, but no power to stop it either. The example would be, say an owner that never over a crazy contract.

Actually, a better analogy might be this. Suppose you are an MLB player, and 80% of the other players are doing steriods. Now, since the vast majority of the players are taking something that will improve their performance, if YOU don't take it, you will be at an extreme disadvantage. But if you DO take it, then there will be long-term repercussions and jeopardize your health.

This is the position that many owners find themselves in.

except, when comparing 50k to 40k, an average Joe would feel the pinch in their budget....now compare 5 million to 4 million...methinks they can still "survive".
- Colin Dambrauskas

I agree, and that is why it was offensive to me when players made those type of comments.

To me it seems obvious what is going on. Fehr must be out negotiating Bettman and the owners and they need him (them) out of the room to make a deal. After all the 30 owners will obviously be better negotiators then all 700+ players put together. Lucky if 100 players show up anyways since most of them don't give a crap. Best thing to happen now is cancel the frickin season, fire Bettman and Fehr, and start negotiations with a fresh start and the new hires will recognize that it is not a gravy train but they are actually expected to get something done.

Your missing the entire point. I agree the League needs to do it. But they need to take responsibility for it. They need to pay the price for their mistakes. Not try and force the players to pay for the same mistakes they make over and over. In every CBA negotiation. It's a simple premise. Owners are saying we screwed up again, so the players need to pay for it!
- MJL

Sorry, now I understand your position. You are just saying the owners should close the gap on the 182 million. Let me mull this specifically over. There are really two issues with the last proposal. First, that gap. Second, the inclusion of the provisions that prevent the players salary in absolute dollars from going backwards year over year, which to me would be a deal breaker if I was the owners.

But I think about the gap and comment in a bit.

The media has been discouraged throughout the whole process. Eklund is the only one claiming progress has been being made
- NYrangerfan521

Not even close. Friedman, Lebrun, Mirtle, and others have been largely positive thus far - especially when rolling out comparisons to say "the two sides are only ____ apart." A whole lot of "it's so easy to make a deal from here, just do it already" remarks that ignore (A) the give-and-take offered isn't nearly as easy as is suggested, and (B) the final solutions proposed still leave a few of the major problems unresolved (if not create new ones).

This whole things is really just sad..... I believe that the owners and players are forgetting about the fans

Without fans you dont have huge paychecks

They need to pull their heads out of their hole and understand they need to think about the FANS


- Flyers_1488

And the fans need to realize this is a business, and it must be run properly to survive and/or grow. While I'm a fan first, I certainly understand the business side of it as well...and while many feel the players should merely take a cut and play the sport they love...this is also their 9-5.

Conversely, the owners themselves didnt become billionaires by giving away millions of dollars. Until both sides realize who is in power (owners), we will continue to change the channel when TSN plays its hockey re-runs and complain to each other

To me it seems obvious what is going on. Fehr must be out negotiating Bettman and the owners and they need him (them) out of the room to make a deal. After all the 30 owners will obviously be better negotiators then all 700+ players put together. Lucky if 100 players show up anyways since most of them don't give a crap. Best thing to happen now is cancel the frickin season, fire Bettman and Fehr, and start negotiations with a fresh start and the new hires will recognize that it is not a gravy train but they are actually expected to get something done.
- DarthGretzky

I completely disagree with the bold. Here is an analogy for you. You are selling your house. It is valued at 300,000. There is exactly one buyer in the market, and his buyer's agent offers you 200,000. And by the way, he has a reputation in the town for being a tough negotiator who always "wins". You tell him you can't sell it for this price, and to please come back with a different offer.

The agent then comes back with three proposals.

1. He'll pay 250,000, but then you give him back $50,000.
2. He'll pay $154,000 EURO (which is 200,000 us dollars)
3. He'll pay you 51,000 each of the next 4 years (which adjusted for inflation is 200,000).

But there are no other buyers, so you are at an impasse. You cannot sell your house for that price, but he is not negotiating. And the actual buyer really wants the house. So maybe you can talk to the actual buyer and reason with him, to see if he can make a better offer.

Sorry, now I understand your position. You are just saying the owners should close the gap on the 182 million. Let me mull this specifically over. There are really two issues with the last proposal. First, that gap. Second, the inclusion of the provisions that prevent the players salary in absolute dollars from going backwards year over year, which to me would be a deal breaker if I was the owners.

But I think about the gap and comment in a bit.
- TheGreat28

I think the inclusion of the provisions that prevent the players from going backwards is a deal breaker also. But I have a crazy thought. Give the players something. Give them some concessions on contract issues. And just maybe, that will go away. Or the Owner's can continue it's our way or the highway and see how that works out.

And I'll also add. What evidence is there that if the players give in and accept the Owner's proposal, that it will fix the financial issues of the League?

And the fans need to realize this is a business, and it must be run properly to survive and/or grow. While I'm a fan first, I certainly understand the business side of it as well...and while many feel the players should merely take a cut and play the sport they love...this is also their 9-5.

Conversely, the owners themselves didnt become billionaires by giving away millions of dollars. Until both sides realize who is in power (owners), we will continue to change the channel when TSN plays its hockey re-runs and complain to each other
- Colin Dambrauskas

I know that but with out fans you dont have a business plan or marketing plan. They know fans will come night in and night out and buy food, beer and T shirt, Hates and so on

If we didnt do that who would they sell too??

Trust me I know what your saying BUT I dont think they ( NHL & NHLPA ) are thinking about us ( FANS ) one bit - Thats how I feel but I could be wrong

Your missing the entire point. I agree the League needs to do it. But they need to take responsibility for it. They need to pay the price for their mistakes. Not try and force the players to pay for the same mistakes they make over and over. In every CBA negotiation. It's a simple premise. Owners are saying we screwed up again, so the players need to pay for it!
- MJL

Exactly. A soft landing to 50/50 is the way to get it done. Players will do that. Time for the owners to agree to it.

except, when comparing 50k to 40k, an average Joe would feel the pinch in their budget....now compare 5 million to 4 million...methinks they can still "survive".
- Colin Dambrauskas

That type of analysis is completely irrelevant to the situation at hand.

That type of analysis is completely irrelevant to the situation at hand.
- Scoob

I didnt bring it up

You are definitely the person on this site most well-equipped to make that assessment.
- Aetherial

Various players. There are dozens of quotes saying..."Imagine if you make 50,000 and your boss tells you that you have to take a 10,000 pay cut. How would you feel".

Or variations of the same theme.
- TheGreat28

I place zero weight on anything the players say publicly in forming my opinions. My stance on this has always been to ignore the rhetoric, and focus on the process.

I do not want to spend $50 to change the oil in my car, even though I know that in a few months that will cause me to spend $10,000 to replace my engine. Stupid thinking, right?
By the PA's and Leagues estimates, this lockout has already cost over 1 Billion $, because 2 sides are unwilling to make a few consessions. Stupid thinking, right?

This whole thing is really just sad..... I believe that the owners and players are forgetting about the fans

Without fans you dont have huge paychecks

They need to pull their heads out of their hole and understand they need to think about the FANS


- Flyers_1488

the fans were never and are never a consideration in this.

This will only work if Jamal Mayers is part of the process.

the fans were never and are never a consideration in this.
- Fountain-San

Sure we are. Did you think they'd sign a CBA without negotiating who'll cover the costs of painting 'Thank you, fans! Again!' on 30 rinks?

I'm hoping that when the owners get together with the players and both sides put their cards on the table they can come to an agreement.
If not I can see the owners saying see you next year and we will be in the same position next December.
I keep reading abut people not coming back and I would like to add that I am mad as well and doubt I will shell out for tickets this year, next year maybe. I will still watch on TV tho.

This will only work if Jamal Mayers is part of the process.
- bcallaway

the fans were never and are never a consideration in this.
- Fountain-San

They should be.... I work for a gun manufacturer and if the Army, Police, FBI, CIA and other departments and law enforcement stopped buying our weapons we would be screwed.... Civilians do buy but its only 29 percent of our sales

That's how I look at it and I'm just really sick to know they dont care about the fans

Thats really just BULL CRAP