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Forums :: Blog World :: Paul McCann: Does the Weber Offer Sheet violate the "sprit and intent" of the CBA?
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Paul McCann
Nashville Predators
Location: Nolensville, TN
Joined: 09.15.2005

Jul 20 @ 1:53 PM ET
Paul McCann: Does the Weber Offer Sheet violate the "sprit and intent" of the CBA?
dmarsden2988
New Jersey Devils
Location: stafford is about equal to rya, NJ
Joined: 03.07.2011

Jul 20 @ 1:57 PM ET
Paul McCann: Does the Weber Offer Sheet violate the "sprit and intent" of the CBA?
- pmccann


yes

but doesn't matter because it follows the amended rules (kovy rule) and the league can't challenge
p_zub
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 02.20.2007

Jul 20 @ 1:57 PM ET
Of course it does. Brian Lawton even made a comment that upon examination of the deal, the Flyers exploited just about every loophole possible to make the contract inhospitable. That being said, what they did wasn't illegal and it still fits within the Kovalchuk exemption. I think Nashville needs to match this contract, bitterly swallow the costs for the next callendar year, then put him up for open auction amongst ALL teams. They can potentially get a return that would make it all worth it...
Antilles
St Louis Blues
Joined: 10.17.2008

Jul 20 @ 1:58 PM ET
Using the signing bonus mechanism to pay Weber $14MM in season one and another $13MM on 7/1/2013 has, literally, the effect of paying him $27MM in season one.


Sorry, but I disagree with this. For all intents and purposes, the NHL year runs July to June. Money paid next July 1st is part of next season, not this one.
feelingkettle
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: "No sir, I don't like it" Phil, PA
Joined: 11.13.2006

Jul 20 @ 1:59 PM ET
Of course it does. Brian Lawton even made a comment that upon examination of the deal, the Flyers exploited just about every loophole possible to make the contract inhospitable. That being said, what they did wasn't illegal and it still fits within the Kovalchuk exemption. I think Nashville needs to match this contract, bitterly swallow the costs for the next callendar year, then put him up for open auction amongst ALL teams. They can potentially get a return that would make it all worth it...
- p_zub

Nashville can't trade him until a year later. Do they really want to pay him 27 whatever million for a year and then trade him?
PrinceLH
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Belleville, ON
Joined: 07.06.2007

Jul 20 @ 2:03 PM ET
Yes it does show cap circumvention, but the NHL already had a precident for this and it has no legal grounds to prevent it. Hopefully the next CBA addresses this and puts all of the teams on an equal footing.
Delta-Bravo
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Is this team relevant yet? , ON
Joined: 02.07.2012

Jul 20 @ 2:03 PM ET
Nashville can't trade him until a year later. Do they really want to pay him 27 whatever million for a year and then trade him?
- feelingkettle


Yes, simply because it's better then rebuilding.
Hold him for a year then auction him off to the other 29 teams.

Beats four late picks.
Just5
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: PA
Joined: 05.22.2008

Jul 20 @ 2:03 PM ET
Sorry, but I disagree with this. For all intents and purposes, the NHL year runs July to June. Money paid next July 1st is part of next season, not this one.
- Antilles


Its funny because Nashville posters in the Flyers blog were screaming how the 27 mil is for 2 years! Not 1 year! But I guess when it comes to this argument its.....1 year!
Scruffton
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: London, ON
Joined: 07.02.2010

Jul 20 @ 2:04 PM ET
It pushes Nashville against a financial wall but is Philadelphia supposed to feel bad about using the rules to their advantage to push around a financially weaker team?

You may not like it, but the offer sheet isn't against the rules and it was a smart move by Philly when trade talks were going nowhere. You aren't a GM in this league to make friends, you're a GM to improve your team and win a cup. Holmgren has shown that he has the stones to make big plays to improve his team now and in the future.
aightwebang17
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Typical Montreal, PA
Joined: 07.10.2008

Jul 20 @ 2:07 PM ET
Sorry, but I disagree with this. For all intents and purposes, the NHL year runs July to June. Money paid next July 1st is part of next season, not this one.
- Antilles

it's still 27 mil in less than 1 calendar year.
215mike
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Joined: 01.25.2011

Jul 20 @ 2:11 PM ET
maybe other teams should start stealing Philadelphia Flyer cap specialists.
p_zub
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 02.20.2007

Jul 20 @ 2:12 PM ET
Nashville can't trade him until a year later. Do they really want to pay him 27 whatever million for a year and then trade him?
- feelingkettle


If you have 5 or 6 bidding against each other for him, yes. Does Philly offer more, now that they could be bidding against NYR or Pittsburgh?
RobFlyers#1
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 06.22.2009

Jul 20 @ 2:12 PM ET
Are you serious?? To question this contract and not the 104.4 million dollar contract signed by Sidney Crosby in which he receives 36 million in the first three years of the deal which if continued would be 72 million over 6 years. Weber's deal will pay him 68 million over the first 6 which is less than the Crosby deal. Bottom line is Congrats to Paul Holmgren for having the balls to get this done and second if David Poile had the balls he would have done this last year. It's managements fault in Nashville their team is in this mess. My advise for Nashville is get a new GM and stop crying about things you could have avoided i.e ( no Suter and possibly now no Weber)
215mike
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Joined: 01.25.2011

Jul 20 @ 2:19 PM ET
i agree Nashville has nobody to blame but themselves. They could have signed him last yr to 3yr 21mil deal as they view him as Keith Yandle type when clearly around the league he is viewed as the Zdeno Chara type.
nelson911
Pittsburgh Penguins
Joined: 02.03.2007

Jul 20 @ 2:20 PM ET
Are you serious?? To question this contract and not the 104.4 million dollar contract signed by Sidney Crosby in which he receives 36 million in the first three years of the deal which if continued would be 72 million over 6 years. Weber's deal will pay him 68 million over the first 6 which is less than the Crosby deal. Bottom line is Congrats to Paul Holmgren for having the balls to get this done and second if David Poile had the balls he would have done this last year. It's managements fault in Nashville their team is in this mess. My advise for Nashville is get a new GM and stop crying about things you could have avoided i.e ( no Suter and possibly now no Weber)
- RobFlyers#1


Crosby gets 67.8 over the first 6, so less than Weber... Don't put up hypotheticals "well if it was continued"

Don't even mention anything Crosby, you're a flyers fan and you have no valid opinion on his situation because of your "kind"

Weber's contract goes until he's 40 and hes paid 1 mil on each of last 3 seasons...

I don't care either way if Philly gets him, but the well past 35 contracts have to go... Should be limited to that age and then anything after should be 2 year contracts or so.
p_zub
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 02.20.2007

Jul 20 @ 2:21 PM ET
maybe other teams should start stealing Philadelphia Flyer cap specialists.
- 215mike


I have to admit, Holmgren has guts to pull this off. However, if Nashville matches, Holmgren's pretty much ensured Weber will never see a Flyers uniform. Even if Weber gets dealt next season, I can envision other teams outbidding Philly, and even then, if there were more than one comparable deals, the scales would tilt away from Philly.
landros 2
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Centre of universe
Joined: 02.07.2007

Jul 20 @ 2:22 PM ET
I wondered that when I first heard about the offer....and saw it....but it is with in the rules....the number of days has zero to do a with a calendar year vs. the actual way the NHL lists it....the calendar is July 1rst till June 30th.....I'm sure the NHL already has looked at this....
Just as I think it is perfectly with in the Flyers rights to offer this deal .....it was also in the other 28 teams to put fourth a offer sheet.....none had the coyunga's to do it and for that amount.....the Preds have had every opportunity to get this done over the last 2 years!!!
It is now within the rules for the Preds to lock up their captain....one of the NHLs best.."by simply paying him.....or to add several assets to move forward.....Poile is a smart guy....I think it's 50-50 for how this ends up.....I say a trade happens with NHL caliber assets goig back....I guess we will see.
dilbert719
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 11.30.2006

Jul 20 @ 2:22 PM ET
maybe other teams should start stealing Philadelphia Flyer cap specialists.
- 215mike


It's got little to do with our cap specialists, and an awful lot to do with our ownership. They're willing to spend amounts other owners are uncomfortable/incapable of matching, and if it's legally permissible to do so, they will. If this is a problem for other owners, they have one means of rectifying this: the CBA negotiations. If it's a problem, fix it that way, or else they pretty much just have to live with it.
FlyerGuy
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: PA
Joined: 06.18.2007

Jul 20 @ 2:23 PM ET
Paul McCann: Does the Weber Offer Sheet violate the "sprit and intent" of the CBA?
- pmccann

this offer sheet isn't really about circumventing the cap. it's about structuring a contract so a big market team can put the screws to a small market team. It happens all the time in every sport.

If it wasn't the Flyers who did it one of the other rich teams would have.
flyer186
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: niagara falls, ON
Joined: 02.05.2007

Jul 20 @ 2:25 PM ET
weather you like what Philly did or you don't , it was a smart move by the Flyers either Weber plays in Philly for the rest of his career or Nashville bites the bullet and signs him.if he spends the rest of his career in Nashville the flyers have kept possibly one of the best deffence-men in the league right now out of the eastern conference. if Nashville trades him to a team in the east then how much is that team going to have to give up. Reports are Nashville wanted Coutourier and Schenn and that was for a un-signed asset, what will they want for 1 that is signed for 14 years.

How ever much we agree or dis-agree that the flyers violated the spirit of the CBA( and i think it does) they are not the 1st team to do it Pittsburgh and New jersey come to mind with the Crosby and Kovalchuck deals. so the league can't back pedal now.The NHL has allowed these contracts before and if the CBA doesn't change we will see them again and again
FlyerAdam30
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Sewell, NJ
Joined: 04.15.2012

Jul 20 @ 2:26 PM ET
Maybe they shouldn't have allowed it to get to this point. They had a full year to get it done. It's their own fault.
flyer186
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: niagara falls, ON
Joined: 02.05.2007

Jul 20 @ 2:27 PM ET
Maybe they shouldn't have allowed it to get to this point. They had a full year to get it done. It's their own fault.
- FlyerAdam30

100% agree they dropped the ball and the flyers picked it up
jochfr
Buffalo Sabres
Location: It's totally menstrual , TN
Joined: 07.11.2009

Jul 20 @ 2:27 PM ET
Nashville needs to send an offer sheet to Claude Giroux in 2014-15...
landros 2
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Centre of universe
Joined: 02.07.2007

Jul 20 @ 2:27 PM ET
I have to admit, Holmgren has guts to pull this off. However, if Nashville matches, Holmgren's pretty much ensured Weber will never see a Flyers uniform. Even if Weber gets dealt next season, I can envision other teams outbidding Philly, and even then, if there were more than one comparable deals, the scales would tilt away from Philly.
- p_zub


But how many teams will want to pay him 14 mil for years 3 and four? And there are few teams that have the young talent Philly has....they should just deal him now for some good young talent.....because otherwise he's in Nashville for a long time.....the decision time is now.....not a year from now.
jtb3rd
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: United States, PA
Joined: 02.08.2008

Jul 20 @ 2:28 PM ET
Sorry, but I disagree with this. For all intents and purposes, the NHL year runs July to June. Money paid next July 1st is part of next season, not this one.
- Antilles

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