There has been lots of banter about the kid and questions about just how good he can be.

In his third season Bobbie Orr played 67 games, he finished with 64 points including 21 goals. This was in a high scoring era. If you compare Orr and Karllson over the first three years of their respective careers, I believe that the kid has a small lead in overall point total.

Orr exploded in his fourth year. But, up to that fourth year many questioned his defensive play.

Spezza is having a wonderful year. But the kid is very close to him in being the difference maker for the Senators.

Well statistics are maintained in order to facilitate comparisons. But, who else do you statistically compare the kid against over the first three years of his career.
- spatso

Mike Green had better stats than both in his third full year.

Orr was probably the best defenseman of all-time, and arguably the best player. That's the kind of comparison you don't want to make unless you don't mind coming off as a huge homer.

Green, Zubov, etc are way better comparisons.

Housley or leetch not orr

There has been lots of banter about the kid and questions about just how good he can be.

In his third season Bobbie Orr played 67 games, he finished with 64 points including 21 goals. This was in a high scoring era. If you compare Orr and Karllson over the first three years of their respective careers, I believe that the kid has a small lead in overall point total.

Orr exploded in his fourth year. But, up to that fourth year many questioned his defensive play.

Spezza is having a wonderful year. But the kid is very close to him in being the difference maker for the Senators.
- spatso

Oh god, stop with the Orr comparison's. Right now Karlsson isn't even as good as Mike Green was at the same point.

Housley or leetch not orr
- senstroll

Sorry, but I am tired of knocking Burke. I think I would like to talk about Karllson just to watch some of you squirm.

Sorry, but I am tired of knocking Burke. I think I would like to talk about Karllson just to watch some of you squirm.
- spatso

You're the only person mentioning Burke. Not sure where that came from.

Talk about Karlsson all you want. Making an Orr comparison is embarrassing though.

Speaking of Karlsson, he's not far from being top 10 in points this year. The last player to do that was Coffey in a shortened 94-95 season. Before that was Leetch in 91-92. Green was on pace for 88 points in 08-09 which would've put him in the top 10 but he missed games so it didn't happen. If Karlsson can do it it'd be one of the better seasons offensively from a defenseman in the last 20 years.

There has been lots of banter about the kid and questions about just how good he can be.

In his third season Bobbie Orr played 67 games, he finished with 64 points including 21 goals. This was in a high scoring era. If you compare Orr and Karllson over the first three years of their respective careers, I believe that the kid has a small lead in overall point total.

Orr exploded in his fourth year. But, up to that fourth year many questioned his defensive play.

Spezza is having a wonderful year. But the kid is very close to him in being the difference maker for the Senators.
- spatso

Aside from spelling his name wrong, you've got to be a pretty big moron to compare him or anyone to Orr. Especially when others here have pointed out that contemporary comparables (green) have outperformed him.

Is there no end to your biased homerism? Have you no shame?


EDIT: Not only did you misspell the name of greatest Dman to ever live, you can't even spell your own mancrush's name.

Karlsson is way better then Orr

You're the only person mentioning Burke. Not sure where that came from.

Talk about Karlsson all you want. Making an Orr comparison is embarrassing though.

Speaking of Karlsson, he's not far from being top 10 in points this year. The last player to do that was Coffey in a shortened 94-95 season. Before that was Leetch in 91-92. Green was on pace for 88 points in 08-09 which would've put him in the top 10 but he missed games so it didn't happen. If Karlsson can do it it'd be one of the better seasons offensively from a defenseman in the last 20 years.
- daeth

The comparison is entirely valid.

In the first instance Orr was dismissed inititially as an offensive player who could not play defense. Like Karllson he led all defenseman in takeaways which was the key to his defensive game. For his entire career Orr was booed at Maple Leaf Gardens, Leaf fans were the loudest in insisting that Orr was not as good as his reviews. Just about every fan base recognizes that the kid is highly talented. The last great level of resistance in the recognition of the kid seems to be clustered around Leaf fans who are finding it difficult to accept the emergence of the exciting talent on the Ottawa roster. And, the reason we keep statistics is for comparative purposes. So, if the kid scores as well or better than Orr, why would you not look at the statistical comparables?

Ottawa is only 2 points behind a Bruin team. If Ottawa finishes as well as it appears they can, we are going to need some explanations. A large part of the credit should go to Spezza who is having a wonderful year. But, you cannot ignore the fact that the kid is a very large part of the Ottawa success.

The comparison is entirely valid.

In the first instance Orr was dismissed inititially as an offensive player who could not play defense. Like Karllson he led all defenseman in takeaways which was the key to his defensive game. For his entire career Orr was booed at Maple Leaf Gardens, Leaf fans were the loudest in insisting that Orr was not as good as his reviews. Just about every fan base recognizes that the kid is highly talented. The last great level of resistance in the recognition of the kid seems to be clustered around Leaf fans who are finding it difficult to accept the emergence of the exciting talent on the Ottawa roster. And, the reason we keep statistics is for comparative purposes. So, if the kid scores as well or better than Orr, why would you not look at the statistical comparables?

Ottawa is only 2 points behind a Bruin team. If Ottawa finishes as well as it appears they can, we are going to need some explanations. A large part of the credit should go to Spezza who is having a wonderful year. But, you cannot ignore the fact that the kid is a very large part of the Ottawa success.
- spatso

You never cease to amaze....your stupidity has reached an all time low. Congratulations on becoming the dumbest poster on the site.

The comparison is entirely valid.

In the first instance Orr was dismissed inititially as an offensive player who could not play defense. Like Karllson he led all defenseman in takeaways which was the key to his defensive game. For his entire career Orr was booed at Maple Leaf Gardens, Leaf fans were the loudest in insisting that Orr was not as good as his reviews. Just about every fan base recognizes that the kid is highly talented. The last great level of resistance in the recognition of the kid seems to be clustered around Leaf fans who are finding it difficult to accept the emergence of the exciting talent on the Ottawa roster. And, the reason we keep statistics is for comparative purposes. So, if the kid scores as well or better than Orr, why would you not look at the statistical comparables?

Ottawa is only 2 points behind a Bruin team. If Ottawa finishes as well as it appears they can, we are going to need some explanations. A large part of the credit should go to Spezza who is having a wonderful year. But, you cannot ignore the fact that the kid is a very large part of the Ottawa success.
- spatso

That is false. Even a moron of epic failure like yourself should be able to know that. Just because the rest of the league can't get on their knees for him like you doesn't mean that others can't see his talent. You seem rather upset that the writers at NHL.com haven't included him in their "trophy consideration"...... get over it. Further more I have yet to see anyone Leafs fans included not acknowledge the kid. That is where your bias comes out. Ever single poster on here has said the kid was talented. Just because the rest of the world isn't a braindead retard and isn't comparing him to the greatest Dman ever doesn't mean that he hasn't been acknowledged. You are comparing him to Orr in year 3 and he's not eclipsing him as you seem to think. And then there's the thing about a contemporary of his (Green) that you've already dismissed that had better numbers than both. Your comparison is an embarrassment.

It's so ridiculous that you've talked of koolaid drinkers and ignorant Burke apologists and yet you continue with utter nonsense?? Do you have no shame??

The comparison is entirely valid.

In the first instance Orr was dismissed inititially as an offensive player who could not play defense. Like Karllson he led all defenseman in takeaways which was the key to his defensive game. For his entire career Orr was booed at Maple Leaf Gardens, Leaf fans were the loudest in insisting that Orr was not as good as his reviews. Just about every fan base recognizes that the kid is highly talented. The last great level of resistance in the recognition of the kid seems to be clustered around Leaf fans who are finding it difficult to accept the emergence of the exciting talent on the Ottawa roster. And, the reason we keep statistics is for comparative purposes. So, if the kid scores as well or better than Orr, why would you not look at the statistical comparables?

Ottawa is only 2 points behind a Bruin team. If Ottawa finishes as well as it appears they can, we are going to need some explanations. A large part of the credit should go to Spezza who is having a wonderful year. But, you cannot ignore the fact that the kid is a very large part of the Ottawa success.
- spatso

You've got me mentioning Zubov and Green as comparable players and another Leafs fan mentioning Leetch and Housley. How is that not recognizing him as a player? Both Leetch and Housley had 1,000 points on their career and were absolutely phenomenal players. Zubov was incredible offensively and Green when healthy is probably a point a game dman.

Nothing short of saying Karlsson is the best dman ever would be good enough for you I guess.

You've got me mentioning Zubov and Green as comparable players and another Leafs fan mentioning Leetch and Housley. How is that not recognizing him as a player? Both Leetch and Housley had 1,000 points on their career and where absolutely phenomenal players. Zubov was incredible offensively and Green when healthy is probably a point a game dman.

Nothing short of saying Karlsson is the best dman ever would be good enough for you I guess.
- daeth

It's absurd.

It's absurd.
- burn

If someone said Kessel was comparable to a young Bondra would you get pissed off and demand that a Gretzky comparison makes more sense? That's basically what we're seeing here.

If someone said Kessel was comparable to a young Bondra would you get pissed off and demand that a Gretzky comparison makes more sense? That's basically what we're seeing here.
- daeth

Absolutely agree... Gardiner >>> Orr+Niedermyer??

If someone said Kessel was comparable to a young Bondra would you get pissed off and demand that a Gretzky comparison makes more sense? That's basically what we're seeing here.
- daeth

Maybe we are talking about 2 different players?? He's talking about Karllson and we're talking KArlsson. Though I've never heard of the 1st guy so I have my doubts on how good he is.

You've got me mentioning Zubov and Green as comparable players and another Leafs fan mentioning Leetch and Housley. How is that not recognizing him as a player? Both Leetch and Housley had 1,000 points on their career and were absolutely phenomenal players. Zubov was incredible offensively and Green when healthy is probably a point a game dman.

Nothing short of saying Karlsson is the best dman ever would be good enough for you I guess.
- daeth

This is very good progress. I have no difficulty acknowledging that the kid needs to go a long, long way to match the career accomplishments of Orr. However, it is valid to note the scoreboard and the statistical result that has been produced. Statistical comparisons are a part of our sports culture.

Absolutely agree... Gardiner >>> Orr+Niedermyer??
- burn

In today's Sun Konopka makes the comparison with Niedemayer. He played with both and says they are very similar players in the way they play the game.

This is very good progress. I have no difficulty acknowledging that the kid needs to go a long, long way to match the career accomplishments of Orr. However, it is valid to note the scoreboard and the statistical result that has been produced. Statistical comparisons are a part of our sports culture.
- spatso

And he doesn't even match the comparison is the years you've described. A player you disregarded already (green) had better Number than both at the same time. Stop the koolaid inanity.

Housely had better 2nd year # than the 3rd year #'s of the guys mentioned.

Leetch's 3rd year #'s are better that those mentioned.

Zubov's 3rd year #'s (with less games over that span) are very comparable. His first year are better than 3rd years of guys mentioned.

Ray Bourqu'e 3rd year is better.

You are the koolaid champ.

In today's Sun Konopka makes the comparison with Niedemayer. He played with both and says they are very similar players in the way they play the game.
- spatso

GArdiner?? Yeah I've heard that. He certainly has the Wheel to be in that relm. Other than his skating it's still early to say. I like what I see from him though.

And he doesn't even match the comparison is the years you've described. A player you disregarded already (green) had better Number than both at the same time. Stop the koolaid inanity.

Housely had better 2nd year # than the 3rd year #'s of the guys mentioned.

Leetch's 3rd year #'s are better that those mentioned.

Zubov's 3rd year #'s (with less games over that span) are very comparable. His first year are better than 3rd years of guys mentioned.

Ray Bourqu'e 3rd year is better.

You are the koolaid champ.
- burn

Numbers matter, the scoreboard matters, the first three years of a players career gives a pretty good insight. I have taken some names from memory and compared their first three NHL years. Probably the ppg average is more important because of the number of games played varies. You might want to add in some other guys who come to mind. But, you cannot dispute that the kid is having an auspices introduction into the NHL.

Housley. .942 ppg. 225 games. 66 goals. 145 assists. 212 points

Coffey. .927 234 67 150 217

Bourque. .881 212. 61. 126. 187

Leetch. .834. 157. 36. 105. 141

Orr. .781. 174. 45. 91. 136

Karlsson. .656. 195. 30. 98. 128

Lidstorm .641. 248. 28. 129. 157

Doughty. .527. 239. 33. 93. 126

Niedemayer .505 208 25 80 105

Green. .407. 174. 21. 50. 71




Note: Karllson has 20 games remaining on the season. Please excuse the messy table. I use an iPad and it has a will of its own in terms of spelling, spacing and punctuation. Sometimes I just don't have the energy to fight with it.

I would say he is top 5 in the league right now. His offensive skill is far superior than anyone at this point, but his average defensive play keeps him from norris consideration against the likes of weber, lidstrom, and chara all of whom have the premier defensive game to match their offensive abilities.

Clearly orr would be lucky if karlsson let him tie his skates

By Allen Panzeri, Ottawa Citizen February 22, 2012




Just think of the great ones: Bobby Orr, Doug Harvey, Nicklas Lidstrom, Ray Bourque, Denis Potvin, Larry Robinson, Paul Coffey.

Not to mention Red Kelly, Chris Chelios, Tom Johnson, Rod Langway, Doug Wilson and Scott Niedermayer, all among the more accomplished defencemen to play in the National Hockey League.

Heady company, indeed, especially for a 21-year-defenceman who is only in his third NHL season.

However, that was the company that Erik Karlsson found himself in after Ottawa Senators owner Eugene Melnyk reached for hyperbole on Monday and predicted that Karlsson would "go down in history as one of the great defencemen of all time."

Given that negotiations are about to begin on a new contract for Karlsson, it was probably imprudent for Melnyk to make such a comment. It likely only served to add several hundred thousand dollars to the eventual settlement, which will likely come in around $5.5 million per season.

To his credit, Karlsson was able to get his helmet on for Tuesday's practice and said he appreciated Melnyk's comments.

"Obviously, I'm very glad to hear that be believes in me and thinks that what I do is pretty good," Karlsson said.

"I mean, I still have a pretty long way to go in my career, and a lot of things can happen. All I can do is be myself and try to be a good player for a very long time."

Melnyk might not be far off the mark in his reach for the stars, though.

Karlsson, the leading scorer among defencemen and 16th overall this season, could turn out to be one of the very, very good ones. Certainly he has all the skills.

Still, it will take some time to arrive at that judgment.

Asked where he thought Karlsson might be in five years, Senators coach Paul MacLean said, "I can't wait."

"His game has grown a lot, and I think there are still areas and places where it can grow," MacLean said. "But, as far as I'm concerned, his growth potential is basically up to him, and his ability to comprehend the game and his dedication to the fitness aspect of the game and his continued growth as a player in seeing the ice and the people around him."

Captain Daniel Alfredsson, who knows Karlsson better than perhaps anyone on the team, was not about to step into the debate of whether Karlsson would end up as one of the greatest. Alfredsson is a fan, though, and sees a big future for Karlsson.

"It's hard to forecast because it depends on injuries, and health, obviously," Alfredsson said. "But he's young, he's going to get stronger, he's going to get more experience, and, if this team continues to develop and keeps getting better, it'll be for him a winning team, and that's how you really develop.

"It's impossible to say where he's going to be in five years, but I don't think he's going to get any worse.

"He's had a great start to his career. He enjoys the game and he works hard and pays attention to the things he can improve on. Where he is right now is impressive."

Karlsson said his immediate goal was simply to have a better season than the one before. Looking ahead five years is too far. Besides, he jokes, he might not like what he sees.

"Maybe I'll be more defensive," he said. "Maybe a younger guy will come up and take my spot and I'll have to play defensively. I don't know. It's tough to say.

"There are so many factors that can play a big part in how your career turns out, and five years is a long time. Hopefully I'm here and keep improving every year."

General manager Bryan Murray said he had not yet officially opened negotiations with Karlsson's agents. "We've had a conversation," Murray said. "They know we want to sign him. But there's nothing more than that going on."

If Murray can get Karlsson's name on a four-year deal, he'll be doing well, whatever the cost, because in five years, in 2016-17, Karlsson would have seven years experience in the NHL and could qualify as an unrestricted free agent.

That's when he'll really be expensive, if, of course, Melnyk is correct and Karlsson is on his way to being one of the greatest. However, even if everyone thinks that Melnyk put a few dollars in Karlsson's pocket this time with his recent comments, Karlsson was more circumspect about his accomplishments this season.

"I don't think you should base a contract on one year," he said. "But obviously it's something me and (the agents) will have to sit down and talk about after the season."

Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen..../story.html#ixzz1n7txImPL