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Forums :: Ottawa Senators :: Sens measure up poorly within Division, but NOT in Province
Author Message
sens rock
Joined: 09.30.2007

Sep 9 @ 2:02 PM ET
I'm convinced. The Sens are in great hands.
- habby


i never said they were in a guarunteed position to dominate.

But i'd rather have that prospect pool then a bunch overpaid 30 years old and finishing in 8th place every year.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Sep 9 @ 2:03 PM ET
I don't know what's worse. The fact that Murray still has his job or that people are defending the work he's done.
- habby



His strength lies in assembling a good scouting staff, and replenishing the minor league teams of the Organizations he's been GM of. For example, Binghamton was bled dry by the previous GMs trying to add "pieces" at the trade-deadline when Ottawa was constantly making the playoffs (13 of the past 15 seasons I think) and giving prospects and or picks in return.

When an organization reloads at the minor league level, it take a few years to start to see the benefits at the NHL. Say what you want about Murray, but a couple of teams that he's left have made it the Cup finals, and in some case won the whole shooting match.

Was he solely the reason? No but he helped in some ways that some people refuse to acknowledge.

Binghamton winning the AHL Calder Cup does seem to indicate that things are on the upswing at least at that level............but it'll be a few years before that shows, if at all, at the NHL level.............perhaps after Murray has moved on, like he did in Anaheim and Detroit.

habby
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Maybe because he won best defenceman of the year, that's how they get paid these days-Alex Kovalev
Joined: 08.31.2006

Sep 9 @ 2:04 PM ET
Are we just going to ignore that Murray is the reason the Sens need to reload?
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Sep 9 @ 2:18 PM ET
Are we just going to ignore that Murray is the reason the Sens need to reload?
- habby



It was inevitable that when a team makes the playoff 12 years in a row, and finishes high in the standings (lower drafting position) and their "core players" become veterans and then trade bait once the Cup Contending "window" is closed........... the team need to be rebuilt.

That's just common sense.

Murray became GM, two weeks before the 2007 draft, and went to the entry Draft with Mucklers team of scouts.

Since then He's assembled his own team of scouts and since 2008 he's drafted pretty well.


Erik Karlsson
Patrick Wiercioch
Zack Smith
Andre Petersson
Derek Grant
Mark Borowiecki
Mike Hoffman
Robin Lehner
Jakob Silfverberg
Jared Cowen
Mark Stone
Matt Puempel
Stefan Noesen
Mika Zibanejad

And he's done better than most GMs in signing US College free agents
Bobby Butler
Erik Condra
Colin Greening
Stephane Da Costa


sens rock
Joined: 09.30.2007

Sep 9 @ 2:20 PM ET
It was inevitable that when a team makes the playoff 12 years in a row, and finishes high in the standings (lower drafting position) and their "core players" become veterans and then trade bait once the Cup Contending "window" is closed........... the team need to be rebuilt.

That's just common sense.

Murray became GM, two weeks before the 2007 draft, and went to the entry Draft with Mucklers team of scouts.

Since then He's assembled his own team of scouts and since 2008 he's drafted pretty well.


Erik Karlsson
Patrick Wiercioch
Zack Smith
Andre Petersson
Derek Grant
Mark Borowiecki
Mike Hoffman
Robin Lehner
Jakob Silfverberg
Jared Cowen
Mark Stone
Matt Puempel
Stefan Noesen
Mika Zibanejad

And he's done better than most GMs in signing US College free agents
Bobby Butler
Erik Condra
Colin Greening
Stephane Da Costa

- Doppleganger


condra and greening were drafted by muckler.
sens rock
Joined: 09.30.2007

Sep 9 @ 2:23 PM ET
Are we just going to ignore that Murray is the reason the Sens need to reload?
- habby


he isn't the only reason. Muckler was pretty horrid on draft day and traded some higher picks at the deadline to boost the team for the playoffs. Its the nature of the beast of the NHL. Not everyone can be Detroit.

When he was first hired he said one of his main priorities was to restock the prospect cupboards. His scouting staff tripled and you can see that with the draft picks that he's made in the last couple years. He has definitely had his successes as well as his downfalls. He has had poor FA signings, bad coach signings (although i think he finally got it right with maclean), and some sub-par trades.
habby
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Maybe because he won best defenceman of the year, that's how they get paid these days-Alex Kovalev
Joined: 08.31.2006

Sep 9 @ 2:23 PM ET
It was inevitable that when a team makes the playoff 12 years in a row, and finishes high in the standings (lower drafting position) and their "core players" become veterans and then trade bait once the Cup Contending "window" is closed........... the team need to be rebuilt.

That's just common sense.

Murray became GM, two weeks before the 2007 draft, and went to the entry Draft with Mucklers team of scouts.

Since then He's assembled his own team of scouts and since 2008 he's drafted pretty well.


Erik Karlsson
Patrick Wiercioch
Zack Smith
Andre Petersson
Derek Grant
Mark Borowiecki
Mike Hoffman
Robin Lehner
Jakob Silfverberg
Jared Cowen
Mark Stone
Matt Puempel
Stefan Noesen
Mika Zibanejad

And he's done better than most GMs in signing US College free agents
Bobby Butler
Erik Condra
Colin Greening
Stephane Da Costa

- Doppleganger

Besides Karlsson, who looks great, we have no clue about the rest of those guys. I find it hard to give him credit till we see some results.
sens rock
Joined: 09.30.2007

Sep 9 @ 2:28 PM ET
Besides Karlsson, who looks great, we have no clue about the rest of those guys. I find it hard to give him credit till we see some results.
- habby


we have some clue. Lehner was calder cup mvp at 19/20 (Price was the last rookie goalie to receive that honour i believe), rundblad tore up the SEL, cowen was their best dman in the AHL playoffs after spending the season in junior, butler scored at above a .5 ppg pace in the nhl and showed flashes that he is the real deal. and silverberg is regarded as one of their best prospects and was the best forward prospect on the ice during their development camp by a fair bit.
habby
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Maybe because he won best defenceman of the year, that's how they get paid these days-Alex Kovalev
Joined: 08.31.2006

Sep 9 @ 2:31 PM ET
we have some clue. Lehner was calder cup mvp at 19/20 (Price was the last rookie goalie to receive that honour i believe), rundblad tore up the SEL, cowen was their best dman in the AHL playoffs after spending the season in junior, butler scored at above a .5 ppg pace in the nhl and showed flashes that he is the real deal. and silverberg is regarded as one of their best prospects and was the best forward prospect on the ice during their development camp by a fair bit.
- sens rock

So let him be head of scouting. He's made a mess of the NHL roster. Both the Anderson trade and Heatley trade were awful. I know he had to move Heatley, although an argument can be made otherwise, the fact that there was so much info leaked prior to the trade by the Sens is awful. Murray basically lowered Heatley's value and painted himself into a corner.

Just as an aside I live in Ottawa.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Sep 9 @ 2:35 PM ET
Besides Karlsson, who looks great, we have no clue about the rest of those guys. I find it hard to give him credit till we see some results.
- habby


That is what my point earlier is. Admittedly, it looks decent, but we can't call it a big success at this point.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Sep 9 @ 3:28 PM ET
condra and greening were drafted by muckler.
- sens rock


Okay, thanks, did not know that.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Sep 9 @ 3:31 PM ET


Just as an aside I live in Ottawa.

- habby


So I guess you don't watch many Senator games, or the AHL Playoffs last year on TV. Other wise you'd be as familiar with most of those names besides Karlsson's.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Sep 9 @ 3:32 PM ET
That is what my point earlier is. Admittedly, it looks decent, but we can't call it a big success at this point.
- prock



But Reimer and Kadri are, right?
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Sep 9 @ 3:43 PM ET
But Reimer and Kadri are, right?
- Doppleganger


Nope.

But they've got a step up on all but one of those guys already.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Sep 9 @ 3:45 PM ET
Besides Karlsson, who looks great, we have no clue about the rest of those guys. I find it hard to give him credit till we see some results.
- habby



August 11, 2011
Top 10 Prospects
Ottawa Senators

by Corey Pronman


Ottawa Senators Top 10 Prospects

1. David Rundblad, Defense
2. Mika Zibanejad, Left Wing
3. Nikita Filatov, Right Wing
4. Stephane Da Costa, Center
5. Jared Cowen, Defense
6. Jakob Silfverberg, Right Wing
7. Patrick Wiercioch, Defense
8. Derek Grant, Left Wing
9. Matt Puempel, Left Wing
10. Robin Lehner, Goaltender

Organizational Ranking: 4th

System Overview: A couple of high draft picks, some solid late round picks, signing Stephane Da Costa and trades for David Rundblad and Nikita Filatov have helped build one of the strongest systems in the NHL. There is a ton of talent at all positions in the Senators system and several of their top players are close if not ready to make the jump to the NHL immediately. Considering the fact that players like Filatov and Patrick Wiercioch didn't have the greatest seasons, there is potential for this system to obtain an even higher level.

There is a good amount of star talent/risky projection along with safer top prospects scattered amongst both skater positions, so the system shouldn't flame out over the next few years from this core.

http://www.hockeyprospect...rticle.php?articleid=1012


Oh yes, besides ESPN, this site also ranks the Senators prospect pool Higher (Fourth) than the leafs prospect pool (eleventh).
http://www.hockeyprospect...rticle.php?articleid=1012

So that's two.

So now I expect a flood of posts discrediting this site as ESPN's was.


Here's a look at some of the prospects Ottawa has in the pipeline.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=971745
habby
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Maybe because he won best defenceman of the year, that's how they get paid these days-Alex Kovalev
Joined: 08.31.2006

Sep 9 @ 3:56 PM ET
August 11, 2011
Top 10 Prospects
Ottawa Senators

by Corey Pronman


Ottawa Senators Top 10 Prospects

1. David Rundblad, Defense
2. Mika Zibanejad, Left Wing
3. Nikita Filatov, Right Wing
4. Stephane Da Costa, Center
5. Jared Cowen, Defense
6. Jakob Silfverberg, Right Wing
7. Patrick Wiercioch, Defense
8. Derek Grant, Left Wing
9. Matt Puempel, Left Wing
10. Robin Lehner, Goaltender

Organizational Ranking: 4th

System Overview: A couple of high draft picks, some solid late round picks, signing Stephane Da Costa and trades for David Rundblad and Nikita Filatov have helped build one of the strongest systems in the NHL. There is a ton of talent at all positions in the Senators system and several of their top players are close if not ready to make the jump to the NHL immediately. Considering the fact that players like Filatov and Patrick Wiercioch didn't have the greatest seasons, there is potential for this system to obtain an even higher level.

There is a good amount of star talent/risky projection along with safer top prospects scattered amongst both skater positions, so the system shouldn't flame out over the next few years from this core.

http://www.hockeyprospect...rticle.php?articleid=1012


Oh yes, besides ESPN, this site also ranks the Senators prospect pool Higher (Fourth) than the leafs prospect pool (eleventh).
http://www.hockeyprospect...rticle.php?articleid=1012

So that's two.

So now I expect a flood of posts discrediting this site as ESPN's was.


Here's a look at some of the prospects Ottawa has in the pipeline.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=971745

- Doppleganger

I didn't say I never heard of them, I said we don't know how they'll turn out in the NHL.
You like Murray as a GM, more power to you.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Sep 9 @ 4:08 PM ET
I didn't say I never heard of them, I said we don't know how they'll turn out in the NHL.
You like Murray as a GM, more power to you.

- habby


And you like former a Ottawa GM castoff.
habby
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Maybe because he won best defenceman of the year, that's how they get paid these days-Alex Kovalev
Joined: 08.31.2006

Sep 9 @ 4:12 PM ET
And you like former a Ottawa GM castoff.
- Doppleganger

Like the team he's slightly above mediocre.
mfreedman
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Thornhill, ON
Joined: 10.04.2010

Sep 9 @ 4:33 PM ET
Look, when people stray off topic, for whatever reason, and resort to childish personal attacks, they are trolling, and it's plain for everyone to see except perhaps for those who are guilty. When they've run out of logical arguments, or start to contradict themselves over the substance of the topic they slip into trolling.

In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion

- Doppleganger


Wow,

At no point have I strayed off topic from the fact that you believe the Sens measure up to the Leafs. The only comments I have made thus far not about this are calling you an idiot for telline me I'm a troll. Pick out a comment where I have strayed off topic. A good deal of what you have talked about does not relate to the original post.

let's point some out shall we?

Funny, you loved Blake when he was wearing blue and white.
Again, the leafs did not need an average 20 goal scored over the past two seasons, they've been a goal factory since the lockout.

No, I have not. When I open my account here, the other spelling was already taken, so I spelled it the other, acceptable way.
Stop being a prock.

when you leaf trolls are finished trolling yet another thread in the Senators forum, and try and stick to the topic at hand, I'll respond, but I suspect you trolls are not yet finished trolling...........so Troll on my friends, troll on.

And a couple of free agent signings.



Not that I overly care, but I enjoy backing up why idots are idiots.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Sep 9 @ 10:55 PM ET
Wow,

At no point have I strayed off topic from the fact that you believe the Sens measure up to the Leafs. The only comments I have made thus far not about this are calling you an idiot for telline me I'm a troll. Pick out a comment where I have strayed off topic. A good deal of what you have talked about does not relate to the original post.

let's point some out shall we?

Funny, you loved Blake when he was wearing blue and white.
Again, the leafs did not need an average 20 goal scored over the past two seasons, they've been a goal factory since the lockout.

No, I have not. When I open my account here, the other spelling was already taken, so I spelled it the other, acceptable way.
Stop being a prock.

when you leaf trolls are finished trolling yet another thread in the Senators forum, and try and stick to the topic at hand, I'll respond, but I suspect you trolls are not yet finished trolling...........so Troll on my friends, troll on.

And a couple of free agent signings.



Not that I overly care, but I enjoy backing up why idots are idiots.

- mfreedman



Not once did I accuse you of trolling. I accuse those who were. And you can selectively parse my posts to try and prove something, but the ones you did were in response to others not yourself. When I respond to the trolls who are of topic good chance my response to them will be off topic. Go figure.

You've proven nothing.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Sep 13 @ 7:26 AM ET


Make no mistake, if Anderson goes down with an extended injury, Lehner will be called up and Auld will back him up.

- Doppleganger



With Craig Anderson signed to a four-year contract last spring, the No. 1 job is out of Lehner’s reach for now. But that doesn’t mean he won’t get a chance to play with Ottawa, especially after leading Binghamton to a Calder Cup.

Backup Alex Auld has never been able to play well for long stretches. Should Anderson not be available, Lehner can show he’s got what it takes to play in the NHL.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam...1/09/12/18676501-qmi.html
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Sep 20 @ 2:19 PM ET
They're not in the NE.

I actually like Anderson. But his performance tends to be fairly erratic. Hard to tell what Anderson they'll get.

- prock



List pool ranking of the NHL goaltenders seem to think Anderson is a better selection over Reimer.
http://www.citytv.com/tor...-week-goaltender-rankings

18. Craig Anderson, Ottawa Senators: Stellar post-trade and bad Avs stats were mostly injury-related.

23. James Reimer, Toronto Maple Leafs: Eye-opening rookie campaign has fans yearning for more.
mfreedman
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Thornhill, ON
Joined: 10.04.2010

Sep 20 @ 3:55 PM ET
List pool ranking of the NHL goaltenders seem to think Anderson is a better selection over Reimer.
http://www.citytv.com/tor...-week-goaltender-rankings

18. Craig Anderson, Ottawa Senators: Stellar post-trade and bad Avs stats were mostly injury-related.

23. James Reimer, Toronto Maple Leafs: Eye-opening rookie campaign has fans yearning for more.

- Doppleganger


Hopefully you find this useful.

Just because other people agree on something doesn't make it the case. I could find a ton of people that also believe a lot of stupid crap all over the place. Case and point, conspiracy theorists.

When something is an opinion by one culumnist/blogger/sports site, it doesn't necessarily mean it is absolute fact. It is just what it has been said to be.. An opinion.

If these people knew everything they would most likely not be working for a network, newspaper, or website. They would most likely be NHL Scouts/GMs.

Now this being said, I do respect the opinion that you believe differently than I do. That is what makes the discussion interesting between fans of other teams. However stop providing other peoples opinions as proof. It makes for a less enjoyable argument, as I would much rather be arguing with the person that made the points rather than the person copying and pasting anothers opinion into an argument.

You have many valid arguments that you yourself come up with, stick with those. Just my 2 cents.
daeth
Nashville Predators
Location: shambles, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Sep 20 @ 4:55 PM ET
List pool ranking of the NHL goaltenders seem to think Anderson is a better selection over Reimer.
http://www.citytv.com/tor...-week-goaltender-rankings

18. Craig Anderson, Ottawa Senators: Stellar post-trade and bad Avs stats were mostly injury-related.

23. James Reimer, Toronto Maple Leafs: Eye-opening rookie campaign has fans yearning for more.

- Doppleganger

116. Reimer owned in 79% of leagues
222. Anderson owned 75% of leagues

That's how they are ranked on Yahoo right now. Meaningless. Neither are a good fantasy pick unless it's late in the draft or you just need another goalie for your bench. Both have too many question marks. Is Reimer the real deal? Will Ottawa be bad to the point where Anderson's numbers suffer?
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Sep 25 @ 10:26 AM ET
http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam.../2011/09/24/18734381.html


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