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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
Jay Gulley
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Toronto
Joined: 01.08.2008

Nov 26 @ 7:11 PM ET

Leafs management has said all along this year not to get excited about this season, as it would be a long rebuilding phase. Ottawa on the other hand was supposed to be a good team and contend for the cup. Who's in a better spot right now?
Steen
Joined: 10.06.2005

Nov 26 @ 7:23 PM ET
I'd say the Sens have alot more trade value based on Alfie Spezza and Heatley, so when it comes to tradeable assets I'd say them.

When it comes to fans, and which fan I'd rather be.. Probably Toronto, as I knew what this team was before the season started, and Leafs management didnt try to sell something they werent. Ottawa is just a bad team beyond the previously mentioned players
kyled
Calgary Flames
Location: Canada, AB
Joined: 11.20.2007

Nov 26 @ 7:25 PM ET
I'd say the Sens have alot more trade value based on Alfie Spezza and Heatley, so when it comes to tradeable assets I'd say them.

When it comes to fans, and which fan I'd rather be.. Probably Toronto, as I knew what this team was before the season started, and Leafs management didnt try to sell something they werent. Ottawa is just a bad team beyond the previously mentioned players

- Steen


YA so if Ottawa plans to trade those players, that is basically re-building. Something Toronto is already in progress of doing. Toronto is in a much better situation.
Steen
Joined: 10.06.2005

Nov 26 @ 7:34 PM ET
YA so if Ottawa plans to trade those players, that is basically re-building. Something Toronto is already in progress of doing. Toronto is in a much better situation.
- kyled

Exactly... I don't know why Ottawa hasn't done something this year to try and improve the team. Maybe Bryan Murray wants to jet back to Anaheim
Leafer_84
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Ottawa
Joined: 08.14.2007

Nov 26 @ 7:40 PM ET
I think Ottawa has missed its opportunity but aren't able to admit it to themselves. If they were able to admit it they'd be in a much better position than the Leafs because they have assets that could help them knock a year or two off of a rebuild...but they won't, they'll keep trying to plug away for the playoffs until they become perennial playoff contenders and end up in 9th or 10th for a few years in a row.

The Leafs, on the other hand, can only get better. They're pretty close to hitting rock bottom, finally have some young talent and will only be adding more as the year goes on and have a chance at a franchise player in the upcoming draft. Burke will likely blast the team to pieces, getting rid of all the vets and building his own team from scratch.

Personally if I had a choice between being in denial about being in decline with no ray of hope in the distance and being near the bottom and only being able to go up from where you are I'd choose the latter. But that's just me
Steen
Joined: 10.06.2005

Nov 26 @ 7:44 PM ET
I think Ottawa has missed its opportunity but aren't able to admit it to themselves. If they were able to admit it they'd be in a much better position than the Leafs because they have assets that could help them knock a year or two off of a rebuild...but they won't, they'll keep trying to plug away for the playoffs until they become perennial playoff contenders and end up in 9th or 10th for a few years in a row.

The Leafs, on the other hand, can only get better. They're pretty close to hitting rock bottom, finally have some young talent and will only be adding more as the year goes on and have a chance at a franchise player in the upcoming draft. Burke will likely blast the team to pieces, getting rid of all the vets and building his own team from scratch.

Personally if I had a choice between being in denial about being in decline with no ray of hope in the distance and being near the bottom and only being able to go up from where you are I'd choose the latter. But that's just me

- Leafer_84


I can't understand how Ottawa felt this team was going to be different from the teams in years past (different, in a good way). All they have done is subtracted from the team that got them to the finals a few years ago. Atleast trade somebody.. do something to show the fans that you have SOME vision.. Because thats what ottawa is lacking right now.. vision, and direction. The leafs atleast have a rebuilding plan or some sort
RogerRoeper
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 03.27.2007

Nov 26 @ 7:51 PM ET
The Leafs. Ottawa's window has shut completely. THey need to rebuild, but can't admit that to themselves though.

The Leafs are already rebuilding, and have much better coaching and management.
elbeso
Montreal Canadiens
Joined: 10.09.2005

Nov 26 @ 8:17 PM ET
What are you guys talking about?
If the Sens were to decide to rebuild they would be in a better position than Toronto. Not only would they get a better (higher) draft pick for 2009 but they have more draft picks for the upcoming (09-10) drafts than Toronto. Moreover in order to get a few more young assets they have way more offer to a contender than the Leafs.
D4nY
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Canada
Joined: 08.11.2007

Nov 26 @ 8:25 PM ET
What are you guys talking about?
If the Sens were to decide to rebuild they would be in a better position than Toronto. Not only would they get a better (higher) draft pick for 2009 but they have more draft picks for the upcoming (09-10) drafts than Toronto. Moreover in order to get a few more young assets they have way to more offer to a contender than the Leafs.

- elbeso

i agree if the Sens choose to rebuild and trade some assets they will be in a better position but i don't think they will admit it soon and they will probably continue sink for a few season and at that point the Leafs will be in a much better position
RogerRoeper
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 03.27.2007

Nov 26 @ 8:29 PM ET
What are you guys talking about?
If the Sens were to decide to rebuild they would be in a better position than Toronto. Not only would they get a better (higher) draft pick for 2009 but they have more draft picks for the upcoming (09-10) drafts than Toronto. Moreover in order to get a few more young assets they have way more offer to a contender than the Leafs.

- elbeso



*if* is the most important word there.

And it's still early, it's not a guarantee they'll get a better draft pick.

And how many teams could take on Spezza's salary? And will they really get that much for him?
thread killer
Location: Lake Titicaca
Joined: 04.19.2008

Nov 27 @ 9:39 AM ET
Sens have more to trade.......Toronto has a better youth movement......which Burke will probably piss away.
Leafer_84
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Ottawa
Joined: 08.14.2007

Nov 27 @ 10:05 AM ET
What are you guys talking about?
If the Sens were to decide to rebuild they would be in a better position than Toronto. Not only would they get a better (higher) draft pick for 2009 but they have more draft picks for the upcoming (09-10) drafts than Toronto. Moreover in order to get a few more young assets they have way more offer to a contender than the Leafs.

- elbeso


Which is exactly what I said...the key thing is that they don't seem willing to acknowledge that they should rebuild.
nightmare3020
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Windsor Area, ON
Joined: 08.23.2006

Nov 27 @ 11:15 AM ET
laugh all you want id say toronto( now im not saying they are a better team... even tho they have more points lol)

toronto has better prospects, more cap room, and have shown they arent afraid to make changes. Add that in with a great coach that makes everyone play a hard two way game... you have something there

the sens on the other hand have had this core for a while and its not working. All their money is tied up in heatley afli and spezza and thats getting them no where. Their prospect depth is weak at best.
Leafer_84
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Ottawa
Joined: 08.14.2007

Nov 27 @ 12:28 PM ET
Lets not get ahead of ourselves. Last year the leafs were in a complete tailspin, with the JFJ death watch on. They've pulled out of the spin, and Fletcher has done a lot more than most people expected he could do, given the NTCs etc.

The Senators are into the second year of their New GM's reign, and are slowly coming to grips with the reality of the Salary Cap, having to let certain players leave, sign some to new contracts and trade others.

Sure they have fallen from the heights of the Stanley Cup Finals, but not nearly (overall) as the leafs have.

To say which team is in better shape (going forward) is obviously in the eye of the beholder, and if you need a measuring stick to decide, we'll all have to wait until each team has played 82 games this season, and see who is seeded higher.

right now (before they play each other tonight) toronto has a .452 points percentage, and Ottawa sits just below with a .450 points percentage.

- Doppleganger


I think you're confusing which team is better now with which team is in a better situation. The Sens are a better team now (or should be±) and might make the playoffs but they aren't going to win the Cup...they are on the decline. They're pretty much where the ±Leafs were a few years ago.

±The Leafs on the other hand are a worse team who are already in the rebuilding stage and will likely shave a few years off it at this trade deadline if burke can move some of the vets for additional first round picks and young player or prospects.
scoot
Vancouver Canucks
Location: people are trying to outbid ea, BC
Joined: 05.08.2007

Nov 27 @ 12:34 PM ET
TO is better off because they have already commited to rebuilding..

the Sens will struggle trying to convince themselves their still contenders
nightmare3020
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Windsor Area, ON
Joined: 08.23.2006

Nov 27 @ 1:07 PM ET
TO is better off because they have already commited to rebuilding..

the Sens will struggle trying to convince themselves their still contenders

- scoot

thats about it case closed

now if the sens actually shipped out say alfi, philips, spezza and built around heatley they it would be a different story
sens rock
Joined: 09.30.2007

Nov 27 @ 3:58 PM ET
The Sens. Their prospects are about equal, but Ottawa has 2 young stars on long term deals that are just entering their prime.
Future_GM
Edmonton Oilers
Location: Canada
Joined: 02.10.2008

Nov 27 @ 4:00 PM ET
Leafs management has said all along this year not to get excited about this season, as it would be a long rebuilding phase. Ottawa on the other hand was supposed to be a good team and contend for the cup. Who's in a better spot right now?
- Jay Gulley


haven't read anything yet too see if this comment may or may not have been made

in a silver lining way, if OTT stays course and finishes in the lottery, and wins a top 5 pick to go along with heatly/spezza/alffy tied up long term! i think that works nicely for OTT
sens4life_
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 12.30.2006

Nov 27 @ 4:02 PM ET
Leafs management has said all along this year not to get excited about this season, as it would be a long rebuilding phase. Ottawa on the other hand was supposed to be a good team and contend for the cup. Who's in a better spot right now?
- Jay Gulley


i dont get why we have to rebuild?? We have spezza/heatly who are young and good. Our team is young and really has no oldies on there. I admit we are not contenders and need to make some trades but why would we blow this team up? stupid idea if you ask me. Add a A+ goalie and we would be contenders.
Leafer_84
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Ottawa
Joined: 08.14.2007

Nov 27 @ 4:03 PM ET
The Sens. Their prospects are about equal, but Ottawa has 2 young stars on long term deals that are just entering their prime.
- sens rock


I'd rather have Schenn, Tlusty and Pogge than Zubov, Elliot and Winchester (or some other forward).

Not saying the Leafs have an astronomically better prospect pool but I think they do win that one and will likely have an even better pool by the end of the year if they sell off assets, sink in the standings and draft at least one player in the top 10.
sens rock
Joined: 09.30.2007

Nov 27 @ 4:07 PM ET
I'd rather have Schenn, Tlusty and Pogge than Zubov, Elliot and Winchester (or some other forward).

Not saying the Leafs have an astronomically better prospect pool but I think they do win that one and will likely have an even better pool by the end of the year if they sell off assets, sink in the standings and draft at least one player in the top 10.

- Leafer_84


I'd rather have Schenn for sure, but I'd say its a wash with the others. They really haven't proven anything in the minors, or shown that they are going to be impact NHL players. Really both prospect pools are pretty weak and thin. Abundance of 3rd/4th liners 4-6 dman (expect Schenn, Karlsson, and maybe Lee), and two average goaltenders who both are expected to be starters in the NHL but haven't come close to reaching that level yet. I think the deals that Heately and Spezza are on and their age tips it in Ottawa's favor, but after this years draft that may change.
KovalevOnIce
Location: Chara is a big confused child.
Joined: 07.18.2006

Nov 27 @ 4:27 PM ET
That's an interesting question,

I would tend to say that the Leafs are in a better position because they have already cleaned the house.
scoot
Vancouver Canucks
Location: people are trying to outbid ea, BC
Joined: 05.08.2007

Nov 27 @ 4:33 PM ET
I'd rather have Schenn for sure, but I'd say its a wash with the others. They really haven't proven anything in the minors, or shown that they are going to be impact NHL players. Really both prospect pools are pretty weak and thin. Abundance of 3rd/4th liners 4-6 dman (expect Schenn, Karlsson, and maybe Lee), and two average goaltenders who both are expected to be starters in the NHL but haven't come close to reaching that level yet. I think the deals that Heately and Spezza are on and their age tips it in Ottawa's favor, but after this years draft that may change.
- sens rock



If the sens finish at the same pace they've started the season then they will be relativley close to the leafs in the standings and have multi million dollar contracts to guys who have seemingly failed. IF that's the case then the sens will have to answer some tough questions about the guys they have pegged as cornerstones.

how many opuurtunity's do you give spezza, healtey, alfie to succeed after that?

if the answer is no more than your pretty much entering a rebuild stage in which the leafs will be a full year ahead of the sens. do spezza, and heatley have NTC?

if they dont then the rebuild gets a lot simplier and speedier (similiar to EDM trading pronger, smyth)
S Kaspar Rollins
Calgary Flames
Location: Calgary, AB
Joined: 06.22.2007

Nov 27 @ 4:43 PM ET
How is this even up for debate?

I agree that Ottawa's window probably has closed. But if they choose to rebuild, they are in a completely superior position to do so than the Leafs. I mean, compare their best trade assets with that of the Leafs. It's not even close.
sniper12
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Canada, ON
Joined: 09.27.2006

Nov 27 @ 4:47 PM ET
sens by far they have to franchise guys to build around in heatley and spezza.
they can chose to keep them both or trade one, theyd get huge return since they are past producers and signed long term, unsure of the ntc situation tho.
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