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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Apr 1 @ 9:48 AM ET
Do they also post the PTS% as well??

How can you continually miss the point?? You're rhyming off stuff that no one is disagreeing with, all the while sweeping the part EVERYONE is talking about under the rug. Stop trying to change the subject and address the issue that was being talked about.

- burn




Are you that dense?


Do you not watch TSN or SportsNet?


They all show highlights of the games played that night, and then show the current standing, showing points, and games remaining..............because the points alone don't tell all the story.

The only place you'll see P% is on NHL.com.

Posting P% alone would also not tell all the story, at this time of the year.

P% only tells you the cumulative record of the teams on that day of the season. Everytime a team plays a game it's P% changes.


DETROIT....... .560
COLUMBUS.... .554

WASHINGTON .540
NEW JERSEY.. .527
toronto....... .526
OTTAWA..... .520



Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Apr 1 @ 10:00 AM ET
WOW, when you slip up and get caught showing your true colours, you go into deflect/distrack/damage control mode.
- Doppleganger



I honestly don't know if you're doing that on purpose or actually don't see the irony in what you're saying.

PS- it's distract.
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Apr 1 @ 10:09 AM ET
Are you that dense?


Do you not watch TSN or SportsNet?


They all show highlights of the games played that night, and then show the current standing, showing points, and games remaining..............because the points alone don't tell all the story.

The only place you'll see P% is on NHL.com.

Posting P% alone would also not tell all the story, at this time of the year.

P% only tells you the cumulative record of the teams on that day of the season. Everytime a team plays a game it's P% changes.


DETROIT....... .560
COLUMBUS.... .554

WASHINGTON .540
NEW JERSEY.. .527
toronto....... .526
OTTAWA..... .520




- Doppleganger


You are the one that brought up PTS%.

You keep missing the point. What you're saying no one has said otherwise. It's the combining of PTS% + games in hand that YOU did earlier in this thread that people have pointed out.... and now you have spun way out of control.


I suspect you'll make another post telling us how wrong we are by telling us the same stuff we're said, all the while ignore the key issue.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Apr 1 @ 10:10 AM ET
You are the one that brought up PTS%.

You keep missing the point. What you're saying no one has said otherwise. It's the combining of PTS% + games in hand that YOU did earlier in this thread that people have pointed out.... and now you have spun way out of control.


I suspect you'll make another post telling us how wrong we are by telling us the same stuff we're said, all the while ignore the key issue.

- burn

He's not missing it- he's intentionally avoiding it, because he knows he was wrong and can't bring himself to admit it.


You'd think someone who cheered for the Sens wouldn't be that prideful.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Apr 1 @ 10:21 AM ET
You are the one that brought up PTS%.

You keep missing the point. What you're saying no one has said otherwise. It's the combining of PTS% + games in hand that YOU did earlier in this thread that people have pointed out.... and now you have spun way out of control.


I suspect you'll make another post telling us how wrong we are by telling us the same stuff we're said, all the while ignore the key issue.

- burn



In my post above, showing only the P% does not tell all the story.

P% only accounts for games played, and does not indicate how many.

But if I had added the games remaining, the additional information gives you an idea of which teams had the better chance at improving their record going forward to the end of the season.


It is you who have missed my point all along.


Games in hand, during a playoff (spot) race matters.

New Jersey has fewer points than toronto, but they have a better record (today) and have one more game to play than toronto..............therefore they have one more chance (than toronto), to improve their record and pick up points on toronto.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Apr 1 @ 10:23 AM ET
He's not missing it- he's intentionally avoiding it, because he knows he was wrong and can't bring himself to admit it.


You'd think someone who cheered for the Sens wouldn't be that prideful.

- Feeling Glucky?


Good points. I believe the issue is a lot more complex. Clearly the Leafs over performed their competence during the first half of the season and are under performing in the stretch drive. The Senators, on the other hand, clearly under performed their competence during the first half.

Good chance that the leafs and Sens end the season with close or even identical point totals. The morel of this story is simple. Season is 82 games and you cannot take off part of the year if you want to be a serious contender.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Apr 1 @ 10:31 AM ET
Good points. I believe the issue is a lot more complex. Clearly the Leafs over performed their competence during the first half of the season and are under performing in the stretch drive. The Senators, on the other hand, clearly under performed their competence during the first half.

Good chance that the leafs and Sens end the season with close or even identical point totals. The morel of this story is simple. Season is 82 games and you cannot take off part of the year if you want to be a serious contender.

- spatso

I'd say you don't really know what you're talking about.

Sens were fighting for a playoff spot most of the year, and dropped off about 2/3rds of the way through, Leafs were in 2nd place in their division with 14 games left, after struggling through November and December(with a span of games where they only had 2 NHL centers on roster, and a few games with only McClement) - they fell off their pace when their starting goalie got injured.
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Apr 1 @ 10:38 AM ET
In my post above, showing only the P% does not tell all the story.

P% only accounts for games played, and does not indicate how many.

But if I had added the games remaining, the additional information gives you an idea of which teams had the better chance at improving their record going forward to the end of the season.


It is you who have missed my point all along.


Games in hand, during a playoff (spot) race matters.

New Jersey has fewer points than toronto, but they have a better record (today) and have one more game to play than toronto..............therefore they have one more chance (than toronto), to improve their record and pick up points on toronto.

- Doppleganger



You clearly do not understand what a % is.....
the_cause2000
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Not quite my tempo
Joined: 02.26.2007

Apr 1 @ 1:20 PM ET
Leafs
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Apr 1 @ 1:38 PM ET
Leafs
- the_cause2000
SENS
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Apr 1 @ 2:52 PM ET
I'd say you don't really know what you're talking about.

Sens were fighting for a playoff spot most of the year, and dropped off about 2/3rds of the way through, Leafs were in 2nd place in their division with 14 games left, after struggling through November and December(with a span of games where they only had 2 NHL centers on roster, and a few games with only McClement) - they fell off their pace when their starting goalie got injured.

- Feeling Glucky?


That might be what you would like to believe but it does not conform with reality. Early in the season the Senators lost games where they had a commanding lead. They went long periods of losing every shoot out. The Leafs on the other hand came back in several games (twice against the Sens) I order to win the game at the end. They were great in overtime and shoot outs.

Essentially the Sens gave up a bunch of points that were there for the taking. The Leafs fought and clawed to get points, sometimes when they were badly outshot. The Sens last stretch of games may be the best they have played all year. Does anyone dispute the Leafs have had their worse stretch of the season!
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Apr 1 @ 3:02 PM ET
That might be what you would like to believe but it does not conform with reality. Early in the season the Senators lost games where they had a commanding lead. They went long periods of losing every shoot out. The Leafs on the other hand came back in several games (twice against the Sens) I order to win the game at the end. They were great in overtime and shoot outs.

Essentially the Sens gave up a bunch of points that were there for the taking. The Leafs fought and clawed to get points, sometimes when they were badly outshot. The Sens last stretch of games may be the best they have played all year. Does anyone dispute the Leafs have had their worse stretch of the season!

- spatso

You said the leafs struggled in the 2nd half. They may have had their worst stretch, but they also had their best in the 2nd half.


The Leafs didn't struggle in the latter half- they struggled in the latter quarter(assuming they don't win the next 6 ).

Leafs didn't fight and claw for points this year, they won games in the 2nd with an outburst of goals, or lost the game in the 3rd, giving up a lead. They had only 2 wins when trailing going into the 3rd.... that's the biggest difference in this team from last season- much less fight.
daeth
Nashville Predators
Location: shambles, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Apr 1 @ 3:04 PM ET
Leafs minus the banners
- the_cause2000

spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Apr 1 @ 3:29 PM ET
You said the leafs struggled in the 2nd half. They may have had their worst stretch, but they also had their best in the 2nd half.


The Leafs didn't struggle in the latter half- they struggled in the latter quarter(assuming they don't win the next 6 ).

Leafs didn't fight and claw for points this year, they won games in the 2nd with an outburst of goals, or lost the game in the 3rd, giving up a lead. They had only 2 wins when trailing going into the 3rd.... that's the biggest difference in this team from last season- much less fight.

- Feeling Glucky?


Obviously you have committed to believing what you want to believe.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Apr 1 @ 4:21 PM ET
Obviously you have committed to believing what you want to believe.
- spatso

yes.

facts.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Apr 1 @ 4:57 PM ET
The Ottawa Senators announced that they have agreed to a one-year contract with Ferris State senior free agent Garrett Thompson.




The Ottawa Senators have signed Calgary Hitmen goaltender Chris Driedger to a three-year entry-level contract.

Nucker101
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: FULL SEND!
Joined: 09.26.2010

Apr 1 @ 4:59 PM ET
The Ottawa Senators announced that they have agreed to a one-year contract with Ferris State senior free agent Garrett Thompson.


- Doppleganger


Curious as to why yo never post in Yost's threads?
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Apr 1 @ 5:06 PM ET
Curious as to why yo never post in Yost's threads?
- Nucker101


I read his columns in the local paper. Here I pretty much confine myself to the Senator's Forum, NHL forum and the Misc forum.

Have other things to do with my time I guess.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Apr 1 @ 5:17 PM ET
I read his columns in the local paper. Here I pretty much confine myself to the Senator's Forum, NHL forum and the Misc forum.

Have other things to do with my time I guess.

- Doppleganger

like dig up posts from years past and use them out of context.
the_cause2000
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Not quite my tempo
Joined: 02.26.2007

Apr 2 @ 8:44 AM ET
He definitely does nto have better things to do
senstroll
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Apr 2 @ 9:32 AM ET
like dig up posts from years past and use them out of context.

- Feeling Glucky?


haha
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Apr 2 @ 9:41 AM ET
like dig up posts from years past and use them out of context.

- Feeling Glucky?



No, to show you, and others here, that what was said earlier, no longer carries any water.

January 31 @ 10:17 AM ET
Games in hand are irrelevant if looking at pts%.
- burn


I'll bet the leafs wished they had some games in hand over the Blue Jackets right about now.

January 31 @ 10:19 AM ET
No, its not an advantage when looking at points percentage. In fact, you could look at it as a disadvantage because the team with more games played has already earned the points.

In reality though, anyone that understands it realizes its neither an advantage or disadvantage.

- prock



Well the the leafs did not earn many points in March, so "more games played" did not end up being the advantage you assumed.



January 31 @ 4:31 PM ET
You're missing the point. When you rank by point percentage, what you're really doing is ranking by how many points they'll have, after 82 games, based on their record so far. It takes into account how many games have been played, by dividing the number of points earned by the number of points that could have been earned(ie, gp*2).

But you're right, blindly assuming that trends continue is faulty... as corsians love to say, everything regresses to the mean, which would be somewhere around 50%(a bit higher, because of 3 point games)... so truth be told, you give the benefit of the doubt to teams that have fewer games remaining, as they have less time to regress.


As for your question, assuming both teams are facing similar competition, and neither team has many games left to fall off their pace, you go with the team that has the higher point percentage. So that would be the Leafs.

- Feeling Glucky?


Well the leafs had the higher P% on March 14th, so how much of a "benefit of the doubt" did you give the leafs now that they have " fewer games remaining, as they have less time to regress" ?
.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Apr 2 @ 10:14 AM ET
No, to show you, and others here, that what was said earlier, no longer carries any water.

January 31 @ 10:17 AM ET


I'll bet the leafs wished they had some games in hand over the Blue Jackets right about now.

January 31 @ 10:19 AM ET



Well the the leafs did not earn many points in March, so "more games played" did not end up being the advantage you assumed.



January 31 @ 4:31 PM ET


Well the leafs had the higher P% on March 14th, so how much of a "benefit of the doubt" did you give the leafs now that they have " fewer games remaining, as they have less time to regress" ?
.

- Doppleganger


So, to prove me wrong, you do exactly what I said you would.



You must live a very fulfilling life.
Morris
Referee
Edmonton Oilers
Location: Hall looks disengaged, NS
Joined: 07.18.2007

Apr 2 @ 10:28 AM ET
So, to prove me wrong, you do exactly what I said you would.



You must live a very fulfilling life.

- Feeling Glucky?

Cue Dopps asking the same question verbatim until you answer him
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Apr 2 @ 10:34 AM ET
So, to prove me wrong, you do exactly what I said you would.



You must live a very fulfilling life.

- Feeling Glucky?



You can look at it that way (as me proving you wrong) it was not my intention, but perhaps what you should take away from this, is that a little more engagement in a discussion, rather than your tendency to fall into your default position of always opposing anything that I might be trying to bring to your and anyone else's attention.


I'm not always right, nor am I always wrong. As you, I too have an opinion, and have seen a lot of hockey over many years, and have seen teams fall short of the playoffs, like the leafs appear to be doing now, after having built up more points by having played more games than the teams they are competing with for a playoff spot.
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