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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
BetterCallSaul
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Liljegren?
Joined: 05.07.2013

Jul 13 @ 5:59 PM ET
Sorry. But improving on a number is a relative improvement. For example, if you protect 2 goal leads 3 out of 3 times (100%) over 20 games.

And, you compare this with another 20 game stretch where a 2 goal lead is protected 8 out of 10 times (80%).


You can conjure up all kind of examples on the 20 game result profile that convey huge extremes. First example could be a team that went 4 and 16 over 20 games. Second example could be a team that was 16 and 4.

You can have a team that never loses a 2 goal lead because they never had one over 20 games.

- spatso

By the same logic then you couldn't judge a team for giving up leads over a certain amount of games if everything is relative. So the blown leads argument you like to throw out here is kind of moot if you're going to post things like this.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jul 13 @ 9:35 PM ET
By the same logic then you couldn't judge a team for giving up leads over a certain amount of games if everything is relative. So the blown leads argument you like to throw out here is kind of moot if you're going to post things like this.
- BetterCallSaul


The Leafs gave up more two goal leads than any other team in the NHL. That is a simple statement of fact.

My objection was to comment that they improved in the second half and gave up 2 goal leads less often. I simply said that you cannot tell how good or bad that is. Even though have improved they still could have given up more 2 goal leads than any other team in the second half as well.

My comment was nothing more than I can't determine the meaning of the original statement. I am not disputing its truthfulness. I just don't understand what it means.
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: If they sign Shattenkirk at 8 years for $65m,...you guys are going to look somewhat silly.spatso
Joined: 03.14.2014

Jul 13 @ 9:45 PM ET
The Leafs gave up more two goal leads than any other team in the NHL. That is a simple statement of fact.

My objection was to comment that they improved in the second half and gave up 2 goal leads less often. I simply said that you cannot tell how good or bad that is. Even though have improved they still could have given up more 2 goal leads than any other team in the second half as well.

My comment was nothing more than I can't determine the meaning of the original statement. I am not disputing its truthfulness. I just don't understand what it means.

- spatso


It's cause you are a retard
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Jul 13 @ 9:45 PM ET
The Leafs gave up more two goal leads than any other team in the NHL. That is a simple statement of fact.

My objection was to comment that they improved in the second half and gave up 2 goal leads less often. I simply said that you cannot tell how good or bad that is. Even though have improved they still could have given up more 2 goal leads than any other team in the second half as well.

My comment was nothing more than I can't determine the meaning of the original statement. I am not disputing its truthfulness. I just don't understand what it means.

- spatso



No poop Sherlock.

Do you understand the meaning of improved? If they gave up less in the 2nd half, but somehow that doesn't mean they improved?

burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Jul 13 @ 9:48 PM ET
It's cause you are a retard
- Tumbleweed



I concede they improved, but does that mean they improved?

He sounds like trump.
GreatGigInTheSky
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Ahead By A Century, ON
Joined: 06.12.2017

Jul 13 @ 10:38 PM ET
1. Tampa Bay
2. Toronto
3. Boston
4. Ottawa
5. Montreal
6. Buffalo
7. Florida
8. Detroit

- Cape Breton Bruins


If Price is healthy all season I think it's safe to say Montreal finishes ahead of Ottawa.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jul 14 @ 5:12 AM ET
I concede they improved, but does that mean they improved?

He sounds like trump.

- burn


During the 1988 Winter Olympics, Eddie the Eagle Edwards competed in and finished last in both the 70 m and 90 m events. In the 90 m, Edwards scored 57.5 points from 71 m and 67 m jumps; second-last Todd Gilman of Canada had 110.8 points from 96 m and 86.5 m;

In the 70 m, he scored 69.2 points from two jumps of 55m; second-last Bernat Sola Pujol of Spain scored 140.4 points from 71 m and 68.5 m jumps; winner Matti Nykänen of Finland had 229.1 points from 89.5m jumps.

Even though his 70m event was better than his 90m event there was no change relative to the field he finished last in both events.

So, my question remains the same. Did the Leafs improve their performance relative to the field or just in terms of their own result?

You might think this is trivial. But, you can improve and still fall farther behind at the same time.
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Jul 14 @ 6:59 AM ET
During the 1988 Winter Olympics, Eddie the Eagle Edwards competed in and finished last in both the 70 m and 90 m events. In the 90 m, Edwards scored 57.5 points from 71 m and 67 m jumps; second-last Todd Gilman of Canada had 110.8 points from 96 m and 86.5 m;

In the 70 m, he scored 69.2 points from two jumps of 55m; second-last Bernat Sola Pujol of Spain scored 140.4 points from 71 m and 68.5 m jumps; winner Matti Nykänen of Finland had 229.1 points from 89.5m jumps.

Even though his 70m event was better than his 90m event there was no change relative to the field he finished last in both events.

So, my question remains the same. Did the Leafs improve their performance relative to the field or just in terms of their own result?

You might think this is trivial. But, you can improve and still fall farther behind at the same time.

- spatso





Omg
Pecafan Fan
Montreal Canadiens
Location: Pacioretty, c'est mou comme d'la marde - Gilbert Delorme
Joined: 01.20.2009

Jul 14 @ 7:42 AM ET
If Price is healthy all season I think it's safe to say Montreal finishes ahead of Ottawa.
- GreatGigInTheSky


And Boston will miss the playoffs because (frank) Caper and (frank) the bruins
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: If they sign Shattenkirk at 8 years for $65m,...you guys are going to look somewhat silly.spatso
Joined: 03.14.2014

Jul 14 @ 8:47 AM ET
During the 1988 Winter Olympics, Eddie the Eagle Edwards competed in and finished last in both the 70 m and 90 m events. In the 90 m, Edwards scored 57.5 points from 71 m and 67 m jumps; second-last Todd Gilman of Canada had 110.8 points from 96 m and 86.5 m;

In the 70 m, he scored 69.2 points from two jumps of 55m; second-last Bernat Sola Pujol of Spain scored 140.4 points from 71 m and 68.5 m jumps; winner Matti Nykänen of Finland had 229.1 points from 89.5m jumps.

Even though his 70m event was better than his 90m event there was no change relative to the field he finished last in both events.

So, my question remains the same. Did the Leafs improve their performance relative to the field or just in terms of their own result?

You might think this is trivial. But, you can improve and still fall farther behind at the same time.

- spatso



walshyleafsfan
Vancouver Canucks
Location: Liljegren tanked to get the Leafs
Joined: 07.14.2011

Jul 14 @ 8:52 AM ET
Sens though they had a deal with LA sending Phaneuf for Gaborik. Deal fell through in the end
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Jul 14 @ 8:53 AM ET
Sens though they had a deal with LA sending Phaneuf for Gaborik. Deal fell through in the end
- walshyleafsfan



never heard that rumour ........ where did you hear about it?
walshyleafsfan
Vancouver Canucks
Location: Liljegren tanked to get the Leafs
Joined: 07.14.2011

Jul 14 @ 9:02 AM ET
never heard that rumour ........ where did you hear about it?
- D0PPELGANGER

There's a few sites.
Something called senshot. Hockeyfeed. Sportsdaily.

I saw it from a link off PPP, Freidman was talking about it

"IT appears the Senator's willingness to move Phaneuf has less to do with the Senators making a hockey move as much as it has to do with dumping Phaneuf's contract"
"My suspicion is that the negotiations were driven by a motivation to slash payroll, but maybe the organization would be better served if it stopped signing superfluous depth pieces to expensive contracts. The deals awarded to players like Colin Greening, Jared Cowen, Milan Michalek, Alex Burrows and Nate Thompson are damaging and easily avoidable".
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jul 14 @ 9:05 AM ET
During the 1988 Winter Olympics, Eddie the Eagle Edwards competed in and finished last in both the 70 m and 90 m events. In the 90 m, Edwards scored 57.5 points from 71 m and 67 m jumps; second-last Todd Gilman of Canada had 110.8 points from 96 m and 86.5 m;

In the 70 m, he scored 69.2 points from two jumps of 55m; second-last Bernat Sola Pujol of Spain scored 140.4 points from 71 m and 68.5 m jumps; winner Matti Nykänen of Finland had 229.1 points from 89.5m jumps.

Even though his 70m event was better than his 90m event there was no change relative to the field he finished last in both events.

So, my question remains the same. Did the Leafs improve their performance relative to the field or just in terms of their own result?

You might think this is trivial. But, you can improve and still fall farther behind at the same time.

- spatso


well, no, it's not the same thing.

if the Leafs lose 60% of their 2 goal leads for the first half, they maybe are giving up 10 points in the standings. that may be last in the league.

if they lose only 30% of their 2 goal leads in the second half of the season, thats maybe only giving up 6 points.

that difference in points can be beneficial to their spot in the standings, last year, and likely this year too. the example you give is an event in which there is no accumulation of points towards an end goal. it's a one time event. points over an NHL season are accumulated, and therefore an improvement in an area that can contribute to points is quite meaningful.

just like a team that won lots of one goal games can sink relative to last season, if they don't skim by and win as many, even if they win the most in the NHL. same can be said of shootout wins and losses (which many agree have a high degree of chance).

if you think it isnt pertinent, you clearly haven't thought it through.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Jul 14 @ 9:05 AM ET
Sens though they had a deal with LA sending Phaneuf for Gaborik. Deal fell through in the end
- walshyleafsfan

I'm of the opinion that the Sens shouldn't be dealing Phaneuf, especially without getting another NHL calibre d-man back. Can't make the playoffs with only 1.
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Jul 14 @ 9:06 AM ET
never heard that rumour ........ where did you hear about it?
- D0PPELGANGER



FReidman
senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Jul 14 @ 9:07 AM ET
Sens though they had a deal with LA sending Phaneuf for Gaborik. Deal fell through in the end
- walshyleafsfan


Never heard that one..But I can see it making sense for the Sens since they would save like 10 mil in cash for the same term


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