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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
twiztedmike
Seattle Kraken
Joined: 10.06.2007

Jul 4 @ 4:35 PM ET
Value has its own meaning. Just because you get great value at Giant Tiger does not mean you have the best. I have no doubt that there are going to be lots of players that score goals at significantly discounted cost to the value placed on costing McDavid goals. But nobody is going to take a 30 goal scorer at $5m over McDavid at $13.25m.
- spatso

Travis Yost would
BINGO!
Carolina Hurricanes
Location: I'll always remember the last words my grandfather ever told me. He said, "A Truck!", SK
Joined: 09.21.2009

Jul 4 @ 4:39 PM ET
Teams will play the Leafs much tighter next year.
- spatso


spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jul 4 @ 5:00 PM ET
Travis Yost would
- twiztedmike


I don't think that is what he I see driving at in his analysis. A $5m player scoring 30 goals costs you $165k per goal. Using the same model you would pay McDavid $443k per goal (this year's production against future annual average contract).

Everyone picks McDavid. But why?

I think Yost searches for measurable criteria that might explain what is obvious yet, perhaps, undefinable and constantly unmeasurable.

I think when you look at Yost's stuff he is never pushing a number as much as he is asking you to look at something through a different prism.

I think his writing on the Sens is incredibly insightful. He suggests that the only way you can beat the Sens is to contain Karlsson. So, teams set up to beat the Sens by slowing Karlsson and, more often than not, they fail.

Is that really the best way to beat the Sens?

twiztedmike
Seattle Kraken
Joined: 10.06.2007

Jul 4 @ 5:06 PM ET
I don't think that is what he I see driving at in his analysis. A $5m player scoring 30 goals costs you $165k per goal. Using the same model you would pay McDavid $443k per goal (this year's production against future annual average contract).

Everyone picks McDavid. But why?

I think Yost searches for measurable criteria that might explain what is obvious yet, perhaps, undefinable and constantly unmeasurable.

I think when you look at Yost's stuff he is never pushing a number as much as he is asking you to look at something through a different prism.

I think his writing on the Sens is incredibly insightful. He suggests that the only way you can beat the Sens is to contain Karlsson. So, teams set up to beat the Sens by slowing Karlsson and, more often than not, they fail.

Is that really the best way to beat the Sens?

- spatso

Nobody can beat the Sens.
Aetherial
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Uh-huh
Joined: 06.30.2006

Jul 4 @ 5:13 PM ET
I like Marleau a lot but he's really (frank)ing old and it's unlikely he lives up to that dollar value.

That said, he's probably what the Leafs need (aside from a competent defense)

- BINGO!


I doubt there is a chance he lives up to the dollar value. He is there for a number of reasons

1) Keep the team as competitive as possible this year
2) potentially allow them to trade a forward, like JVR for defensive help... there was not a lot available in free agency
3) Provide some veteran leadership to a really young team
4) Provide a ton of playoff experience

Oh, and his numbers were still pretty good last year.

The "value" is not important. That is what idiots like Spatso and Yost don't want to acknowledge. I think it hit too closely to home that the Leafs can just go ahead and throw money like this around while their team struggles to get out from under numerous contracts where players already aren't living up to their salary
Aetherial
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Uh-huh
Joined: 06.30.2006

Jul 4 @ 5:15 PM ET
I believe the comment was the sample size on Claesson was in fact large enough to offer hope he can adequately replace Methot.
- spatso


Aetherial
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Uh-huh
Joined: 06.30.2006

Jul 4 @ 5:15 PM ET
I don't think that is what he I see driving at in his analysis. A $5m player scoring 30 goals costs you $165k per goal. Using the same model you would pay McDavid $443k per goal (this year's production against future annual average contract).

Everyone picks McDavid. But why?

I think Yost searches for measurable criteria that might explain what is obvious yet, perhaps, undefinable and constantly unmeasurable.

I think when you look at Yost's stuff he is never pushing a number as much as he is asking you to look at something through a different prism.

I think his writing on the Sens is incredibly insightful. He suggests that the only way you can beat the Sens is to contain Karlsson. So, teams set up to beat the Sens by slowing Karlsson and, more often than not, they fail.

Is that really the best way to beat the Sens?

- spatso


There are so many ways, who could possibly pick a "best".

Aetherial
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Uh-huh
Joined: 06.30.2006

Jul 4 @ 5:19 PM ET
Value has its own meaning. Just because you get great value at Giant Tiger does not mean you have the best. I have no doubt that there are going to be lots of players that score goals at significantly discounted cost to the value placed on costing McDavid goals. But nobody is going to take a 30 goal scorer at $5m over McDavid at $13.25m.
- spatso


Yost's arguement valued one single thing, NHL Games played.

So, according to Yost, Gardner and Zaitsev are more valuable than Karlsson.

Maybe you should trade Karlsson now, while he still has some value. He either walks a couple years from now, or you pay him so much he wrecks your cap anyway.

Who are you going to cheer for when the Sens franchise folds from lack of interest.
BlueBallz
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: You lie to everyone else and soon enough you begin believing your own lies. - spatso, ON
Joined: 07.06.2012

Jul 4 @ 5:23 PM ET
Yost's arguement valued one single thing, NHL Games played.

So, according to Yost, Gardner and Zaitsev are more valuable than Karlsson.

Maybe you should trade Karlsson now, while he still has some value. He either walks a couple years from now, or you pay him so much he wrecks your cap anyway.

Who are you going to cheer for when the Sens franchise folds from lack of interest.

- Aetherial[
/quote]
Red Blacks
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jul 4 @ 5:43 PM ET
I doubt there is a chance he lives up to the dollar value. He is there for a number of reasons

1) Keep the team as competitive as possible this year
2) potentially allow them to trade a forward, like JVR for defensive help... there was not a lot available in free agency
3) Provide some veteran leadership to a really young team
4) Provide a ton of playoff experience

Oh, and his numbers were still pretty good last year.

The "value" is not important. That is what idiots like Spatso and Yost don't want to acknowledge. I think it hit too closely to home that the Leafs can just go ahead and throw money like this around while their team struggles to get out from under numerous contracts where players already aren't living up to their salary

- Aetherial


Best comment yet. You essentially mimic what the Sens say about Phaneuf and his leadership. But, Marleau is 6years closer to his old age pension.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jul 4 @ 5:58 PM ET
Toronto Maple Leafs: ESPN's choice as worst franchise in professional sport. And, you wonder why it is so easy to poke a stick in your eye.
daeth
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: accuratently, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Jul 4 @ 6:15 PM ET
looks like i missed 10+ pages of discussion. thank (frank)
daeth
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: accuratently, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Jul 4 @ 6:21 PM ET
I like Marleau a lot but he's really (frank)ing old and it's unlikely he lives up to that dollar value.

That said, he's probably what the Leafs need (aside from a competent defense)

- BINGO!

it's a huge overpayment but the leafs have nothing else to spend that money on. they did a good job at having the cap in order. marleau is basically only a 40 point player at this point but he can still skate and he's a decent finisher still. it's a good signing.
twiztedmike
Seattle Kraken
Joined: 10.06.2007

Jul 4 @ 6:21 PM ET
looks like i missed 10+ pages of discussion. thank (frank)
- daeth

you did good today, daeth
twiztedmike
Seattle Kraken
Joined: 10.06.2007

Jul 4 @ 6:22 PM ET
it's a huge overpayment but the leafs have nothing else to spend that money on. they did a good job at having the cap in order. marleau is basically only a 40 point player at this point but he can still skate and he's a decent finisher still. it's a good signing.
- daeth

I bet he puts up 581 points this season playing next to Matthews and Nylander!!
BetterCallSaul
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Captain Morgan Rielly
Joined: 05.07.2013

Jul 4 @ 6:33 PM ET
Toronto Maple Leafs: ESPN's choice as worst franchise in professional sport. And, you wonder why it is so easy to poke a stick in your eye.
- spatso

Ottawa Senators: Hometown fans choice as least relevant franchise in the NHL.
BINGO!
Carolina Hurricanes
Location: I'll always remember the last words my grandfather ever told me. He said, "A Truck!", SK
Joined: 09.21.2009

Jul 4 @ 6:37 PM ET
Ottawa Senators: Hometown fans choice as least relevant franchise in the NHL.
- BetterCallSaul


I routinely forget the team exists at all.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Jul 4 @ 6:39 PM ET
Toronto Maple Leafs: ESPN's choice as worst franchise in professional sport. And, you wonder why it is so easy to poke a stick in your eye.
- spatso

It's sad that even when you lie, it's based on the worst sources.
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tavares is sledge hockey level - Islesrbettr, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Jul 4 @ 6:41 PM ET
Toronto Maple Leafs: ESPN's choice as worst franchise in professional sport. And, you wonder why it is so easy to poke a stick in your eye.
- spatso



Try to stay current.
BetterCallSaul
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Captain Morgan Rielly
Joined: 05.07.2013

Jul 4 @ 6:43 PM ET
I routinely forget the team exists at all.
- BINGO!

Whatever happened to this just being a voyeurism excercise for you?
BINGO!
Carolina Hurricanes
Location: I'll always remember the last words my grandfather ever told me. He said, "A Truck!", SK
Joined: 09.21.2009

Jul 4 @ 6:45 PM ET
Whatever happened to this just being a voyeurism excercise for you?
- BetterCallSaul


I like to take shots wherever I can.


Also I'm a (frank)ing liar.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Jul 4 @ 6:49 PM ET
it's a huge overpayment but the leafs have nothing else to spend that money on. they did a good job at having the cap in order. marleau is basically only a 40 point player at this point but he can still skate and he's a decent finisher still. it's a good signing.
- daeth

I wouldn't be surprised if he breaks 30/50 this year, playing with Matthews and Nylander.
BetterCallSaul
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Captain Morgan Rielly
Joined: 05.07.2013

Jul 4 @ 7:28 PM ET
I like to take shots wherever I can.


Also I'm a (frank)ing liar.

- BINGO!

Good stuff. Enjoy the show.
daeth
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: accuratently, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Jul 4 @ 8:12 PM ET
I wouldn't be surprised if he breaks 30/50 this year, playing with Matthews and Nylander.
- Feeling Glucky?

he spent a decent amount of time with either pavelski and thornton or couture so i'm not sure it'll make much of a difference if he plays on their line.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Jul 4 @ 9:05 PM ET
he spent a decent amount of time with either pavelski and thornton or couture so i'm not sure it'll make much of a difference if he plays on their line.
- daeth

I'm just thinking of all the missed chances Hyman had. I think he was near the top of the league in high percentage chances, but he just couldn't convert.

Marleau on the other hand scores pretty much all his goals from right in front of the net. Him and Matthews crashing will be really hard for other teams to cope with.

Honestly seems like the best possible fit, especially with Nylander just circling around, picking up loose pucks, and making half the defence trip over themselves trying to catch him.

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