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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Feb 7 @ 7:39 AM ET
NHL contract..... capgeek.


It doesn;'t matter where he plays. that doesn't determine his contract.

- burn



I know it doesnt. Its just rare a guy with an NHL contract has sunk as low as playing in the ECHL. Unless its a goalie.
Morris
Referee
Edmonton Oilers
Location: Hall looks disengaged, NS
Joined: 07.18.2007

Feb 7 @ 7:41 AM ET
and it ends this summer, so no biggie.



Has he really been that bad??? I figured as much.

- burn

Part of it is that they put him with Andrew Ference, so the pairing is not short on grit, but neither of them is very good at starting a breakout.
Morris
Referee
Edmonton Oilers
Location: Hall looks disengaged, NS
Joined: 07.18.2007

Feb 7 @ 7:41 AM ET
Also, Leafs still.
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Feb 7 @ 7:53 AM ET
Part of it is that they put him with Andrew Ference, so the pairing is not short on grit, but neither of them is very good at starting a breakout.
- Morris




and slow and (frank).
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Feb 9 @ 12:01 PM ET
toronto has 22 games remaining, and would need probably a minimum of 20 - 22 points to hold on to their playoff spot. 10 wins and few loser points should do it.

The final playoff spot is currently held by the Red Wings, and is realistically the only one left "up for grabs".

Ottawa has a shot at the spot, but do not control their own destiny, they need other teams to lose for them to have any chance at beating out the Blue Jackets, Red Wings, Capitals, Hurricanes or Devils.

If I were the Ottawa GM, I'd listen to any offers before the trade deadline, for any of the UFAs on the Senators and would not hesitate to let them go if the return is fair. There is a lot of depth in Binghamton that can fill the gaps if any of the UFAs are dealt.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Feb 10 @ 3:53 PM ET
toronto has 22 games remaining, and would need probably a minimum of 20 - 22 points to hold on to their playoff spot. 10 wins and few loser points should do it.

The final playoff spot is currently held by the Red Wings, and is realistically the only one left "up for grabs".

Ottawa has a shot at the spot, but do not control their own destiny, they need other teams to lose for them to have any chance at beating out the Blue Jackets, Red Wings, Capitals, Hurricanes or Devils.

If I were the Ottawa GM, I'd listen to any offers before the trade deadline, for any of the UFAs on the Senators and would not hesitate to let them go if the return is fair. There is a lot of depth in Binghamton that can fill the gaps if any of the UFAs are dealt.

- Doppleganger


Yes. Toronto is in a better position.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Feb 10 @ 4:04 PM ET
Yes. Toronto is in a better position.
- Feeling Glucky?



Another thread that should probably be shut down. A young playoff team with it's core locked up and still in possession of their first round pick vs a non-playoff team a few core players set to jump ship within the next year and a half, and no first round pick.

Decision is easy.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Feb 10 @ 4:21 PM ET
Another thread that should probably be shut down. A young playoff team with it's core locked up and still in possession of their first round pick vs a non-playoff team a few core players set to jump ship within the next year and a half, and no first round pick.

Decision is easy.

- prock



You're cherry picking.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Feb 10 @ 4:35 PM ET
You're cherry picking.
- Doppleganger


I suppose you're right. Cherry picking the fact that the sens are crap. No first round pick.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Feb 10 @ 4:42 PM ET
I suppose you're right. Cherry picking the fact that the sens are crap. No first round pick.
- prock



Yeah the leafs have a first round pick that will probably never play for them in any meaningful way, as it's the weakest Draft compared to the last two, and next years.............according to TSNs Bob McKenzie.

Sens were smart to trade a first for this year's draft, and the depth drops of a cliff after the first three or four picks.

The last time the Sens were smart enough to trade their first, they parlayed it into everyday NHLer who is arguably their defacto number one Centre.
senstroll
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Feb 10 @ 4:45 PM ET
Yeah the leafs have a first round pick that will probably never play for them in any meaningful way, as it's the weakest Draft compared to the last two, and next years.............according to TSNs Bob McKenzie.

Sens were smart to trade a first for this year's draft, and the depth drops of a cliff after the first three or four picks.

The last time the Sens were smart enough to trade their first, they parlayed it into everyday NHLer who is arguably their defacto number one Centre.

- Doppleganger


sounds like this draft is 1999 draft bad then

just need to find the zetterberg
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Feb 10 @ 5:32 PM ET
Yeah the leafs have a first round pick that will probably never play for them in any meaningful way, as it's the weakest Draft compared to the last two, and next years.............according to TSNs Bob McKenzie.

Sens were smart to trade a first for this year's draft, and the depth drops of a cliff after the first three or four picks.

The last time the Sens were smart enough to trade their first, they parlayed it into everyday NHLer who is arguably their defacto number one Centre.

- Doppleganger

You know, the link you posted earlier didn't say the draft was crap, it said there weren't any stand-outs. That implies that the talent late in the 1st isn't far off from the talent earlier in the first. Gives you a chance at grabbing someone who should have gone earlier, and fell due to team needs or other things.

Pretty much an identical description as the 2006 draft, that yeilded Giroux and some other pretty good guys in the latter half of the 1st, and the second round.

It's drafts like this where getting many picks is a good idea.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Feb 10 @ 10:48 PM ET
I never characterized the 2014 draft as "crap" those might be someone else's words, but not mine.


I simply relayed what Bob McKenzie said on his 2014 draft pre-view show that aired a few weeks ago. He pointed out, that compared to the last couple, and next years, this upcoming draft is weaker in comparison, after the top three or four picks.

Bob McKenzie
"There appears to be a lot of volatility in this year's mid-season rankings. NHL scouts don't seem as fully sold on this year's first-round prospects, especially those ranked from No. 11 through to 30."

In fact he wrote this as well
Bob McKenzie
"But the scouts also cautioned that the top-end prospects this year are still excellent talents, just not necessarily potential stars."

So even the top three or four potential players selected don't measure up well, when compared to previous drafts.


Ottawa has selected 5 first rounders in the past 3 drafts, so that alone makes up for missing one this year. It's not going to adversely affect the short or long term future of the Senators as much as some people seem to think it will, if the Senators don;t select in this years first round.

http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/story/?id=442022

- Doppleganger


Except that one of those is gone, along with this years pick (for 2 years of a good, not great goalscorer), making it 4 left over four years. Not to mention one was a waste. In fact given the year before that its 4 in 5 years. Not really what you hope for from a rebuilding team.
Morris
Referee
Edmonton Oilers
Location: Hall looks disengaged, NS
Joined: 07.18.2007

Feb 11 @ 7:10 AM ET
Here's a thread about NHL's ongoing participation in the olympics, Dopps.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com...ebate-Continues/129/57901

Given that you're supremely interested in staying on topic, I trust you won't bother bringing up olympic participation in any of the other threads again.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Feb 11 @ 7:21 AM ET
Here's a thread about NHL's ongoing participation in the olympics, Dopps.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com...ebate-Continues/129/57901

Given that you're supremely interested in staying on topic, I trust you won't bother bringing up olympic participation in any of the other threads again.

- Morris



all he's really trying to do when he does that is deflect away from the situation of the Leafs in comparison to the Sens. He doesn't want to talk about that anymore.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Feb 11 @ 9:11 AM ET
all he's really trying to do when he does that is deflect away from the situation of the Leafs in comparison to the Sens. He doesn't want to talk about that anymore.
- prock




Yes I'm only trying to deflect, in hopes that all you leaf fans will forget that the leafs are currently ahead of the Senators in standings..................becasue you're all so easy to fool.



Right
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Feb 11 @ 9:27 AM ET
Yes I'm only trying to deflect, in hopes that all you leaf fans will forget that the leafs are currently ahead of the Senators in standings..................becasue you're all so easy to fool.



Right

- Doppleganger



don't forget have core players locked up. don't forget have a first round pick. don't forget have a budget to spend.

but yes, one's a playoff team, the other isn't.
senstroll
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Feb 11 @ 9:37 AM ET
Simply put, the Leafs are in a better situation.

The Leafs finally admitted (albeit a few years late) that it's time to rebuild. They have many buidling blocks in place in order to return to form as a competent & competitive organization in the NHL. They have a solid goalie in Toskala, who would look even better with a stronger defensive corps in front of him. They drafted Luke Shenn, who is on his way to become a very good defenseman, and will likely be one of the top young defensemen in the East. Cliff Fletcher has actually surprised me by making some smart moves, especially with his latest trade (for Stempniak). If they focus on drafting & player development, and if Burke lives up to the expectations as the team's GM, they will soon be on the way up. As long as they stay the course, they have nowhere to go but up.




could this analysis be any more off base.

wow..looking back this poster (whoever it is) was dead wrong
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Feb 11 @ 9:38 AM ET
Except that one of those is gone, along with this years pick (for 2 years of a good, not great goalscorer), making it 4 left over four years. Not to mention one was a waste. In fact given the year before that its 4 in 5 years. Not really what you hope for from a rebuilding team.
- prock




Hummmmm?

I still see four First Round Picks, in the last three Entry Drafts, still the property of the Ottawa Senators. So if they don't have a first round selection this year, that would then be Four First round picks in Four Entry Drafts..............not a bad average.

But you do agree that the Senators are a re-building team.

Well if I look at their current "on ice" line up, I see four first round picks, selected in the past 6 Entry drafts.....................plus three second round picks, also in their current "on ice" line up, selected in the past 6 Entry drafts.

Again not a bad average for a Re-building team.

I see eight more Draft picks, selected in the past 6 Entry Drafts, paying in Binghamton, with a number of those having a fair number of NHL games under their belts, with some of them having legitamate shots at an NHL roster spot.

Also another first round pick who played for the recent Canadian National Junior team


So when I look at the overall picture, I see the NHL club with the third youngest average age in the NHL, flirting with a playoff spot, a Farm Team with the 5th best record in the AHL, it's not nearly as bad as you'd like it to be.


So for a rebuilding team, as you pointed out, they're in pretty good shape.

prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Feb 11 @ 9:39 AM ET
could this analysis be any more off base.

wow..looking back this poster (whoever it is) was dead wrong

- senstroll



yeah, no kidding. that said, they took a different route, but definitely ended up in a much better spot than the Sens.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Feb 11 @ 9:40 AM ET
Hummmmm?

I still see four First Round Picks, in the last three Entry Drafts, still the property of the Ottawa Senators. So if they don't have a first round selection this year, that would then be Four First round picks in Four Entry Drafts..............not a bad average.

But you do agree that the Senators are a re-building team.

Well if I look at their current "on ice" line up, I see four first round picks, selected in the past 6 Entry drafts.....................plus three second round picks, also in their current "on ice" line up, selected in the past 6 Entry drafts.

Again not a bad average for a Re-building team.

I see eight more Draft picks, selected in the past 6 Entry Drafts, paying in Binghamton, with a number of those having a fair number of NHL games under their belts, with some of them having legitamate shots at an NHL roster spot.

Also another first round pick who played for the recent Canadian National Junior team


So when I look at the overall picture, I see the NHL club with the third youngest average age in the NHL, flirting with a playoff spot, a Farm Team with the 5th best record in the AHL, it's not nearly as bad as you'd like it to be.


So for a rebuilding team, as you pointed out, they're in pretty good shape.

- Doppleganger


yes, not one the year before that, and not one next year. Four in six years. Unless they trade Bobby Ryan before he goes to free agency. He would probably get a late first as a rental.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Feb 11 @ 9:43 AM ET
don't forget have core players locked up. don't forget have a first round pick. don't forget have a budget to spend.

but yes, one's a playoff team, the other isn't.

- prock



don't forget the leafs have seven players who will become UFA's this coming July, who all will leave, and the leafs will get nothing in return for them.


Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Feb 11 @ 9:44 AM ET
yes, not one the year before that, and not one next year. Four in six years. Unless they trade Bobby Ryan before he goes to free agency. He would probably get a late first as a rental.
- prock




Are you Cherry picking?
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Feb 11 @ 9:49 AM ET
don't forget the leafs have seven players who will become UFA's this coming July, who all will leave, and the leafs will get nothing in return for them.
- Doppleganger



yeah that's okay, most of those aren't even in the lineup right now. What will they ever do to replace them???? Not a single one of them plays top 6 (well, Mason Raymond does occasionally), or top 2 pairing.

It's not like we're going to lose our top goal scorer.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Feb 11 @ 9:53 AM ET
yeah that's okay, most of those aren't even in the lineup right now. What will they ever do to replace them???? Not a single one of them plays top 6 (well, Mason Raymond does occasionally), or top 2 pairing.

It's not like we're going to lose our top goal scorer.

- prock



Why not deal them at the Deadline for something?

I would not have a problem with Ottawa dealing any or all of their impending UFAs. There are prospects in Binghamton that are capable to fill some of these spots next season.
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