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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jun 9 @ 5:29 AM ET
No, because the logic is based on a couple of key things:
1) Leafs had three youngsters that came in and wrecked poop. Players that perform at their level rarely see a softmore slump, and usually continue to improve. The Sens had no noteworthy youngsters who can be expected to improve, nor do they have any prospects that could be difference makers next season.

2) Leafs had strong underlying stats, which indicates that they won't be regressing, and may in fact have underperformed this last season. The Sens had very weak underlying numbers, and are a prime candidate for regression, after clearly over performing.

3) Your favourite: loser points. The Leafs saw a lot of games that's they were leading in go to overtime, leading to an eventual loss. An inability to hold leads is normal for an inexperienced group. Furthermore, the Leafs lost an abnormally high number of OT/SO games. OT/SO proficiency changes from year to year for any team, as a great deal of luck is involved. So many of those one point games may likely be 2 point Ws for the Leafs this coming season.

4) Purely Sens point here: Anderson has a history of regressing after a strong season. The Sens's possession-phobic system relies on strong goaltending. Good luck!

- Feeling Glucky?


I don't disagree with your overall points, especially the on/off pattern of Anderson. The one area where I do disagree is your failure to recognize the emergence of coaches and teams that are structured to play against the possession game. Two years ago the Sens played good possession hockey (numbers) and were one of the top scoring teams in the league. This past year they changed style, scored a lot less and defended much more vigorously. Make no mistake, the name of the game is team defence and Jacques Lemaire owns the soul of Guy Boucher.

Next year, more teams will replicate the Ottawa success and teams that try to outgun everyone else may be in for a long year, Important to note that Nashville plays a very similar style to Ottawa. They play a 1-3-1, they are comfortable defending in their own end by keeping the play on the periphery...they block lots shots. They counter attack with great gusto.
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Jun 9 @ 7:59 AM ET
Answer me this.

Did Ottawa’s roster mostly consist of old players getting worse or young players getting better?

- Tumbleweed



Ottawa's roster, even with all it's injuries, and players missing because of injuries, made it to the third round this season.

Next season there will be fewer older players, as a number of older players with expiring contracts will not be back, and a number of younger players will be added, perhaps not right from the start of the season, but over the course of the season.

Therefore the average age of the team will be lower next season.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jun 9 @ 8:48 AM ET
Ottawa's roster, even with all it's injuries, and players missing because of injuries, made it to the third round this season.

Next season there will be fewer older players, as a number of older players with expiring contracts will not be back, and a number of younger players will be added, perhaps not right from the start of the season, but over the course of the season.

Therefore the average age of the team will be lower next season.

- D0PPELGANGER


Next year Ottawa adds White, Chabot and Harpur right at the beginning of the season. I think they will also be adding another top 6 skater by way of trade over the next few weeks.
prock
Nashville Predators
Location: Nice to know how comfortable t, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jun 9 @ 9:01 AM ET
Next year Ottawa adds White, Chabot and Harpur right at the beginning of the season. I think they will also be adding another top 6 skater by way of trade over the next few weeks.
- spatso



the reason everyone was expecting the leafs to be even worse last year is that they had so many rookies in the lineup. normally it takes rookies a year to adjust to the NHL. they don't normally contribute that much.

now, that isn't always true when it comes to elite prospects like Matthews, marner, nylander, Laine, and werenski. but ottawa doesn't have any of them. adding lower tier guys like that won't boost you in the standings. good chance they don't even make it past the 10 game mark.
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Jun 9 @ 9:10 AM ET
Next year Ottawa adds White, Chabot and Harpur right at the beginning of the season. I think they will also be adding another top 6 skater by way of trade over the next few weeks.
- spatso


I don't see Chabot starting the season with Ottawa ........... I see him sent down to Belleville after training camp ........... and called up at some point in the season.

I'm assume Claesson is lost to the expansion draft, leaving Phaneuf, Karlsson, Methot, Ceci, Borowiecki & Wideman as the starting six D Men with Hapur as the 7th D Man.

Unless Chabot "wins" a job in Training camp, which I doubt, there is no reason to leave him sitting in the pressbox (with Harpur) and getting a game here and there.

He, and the team is better served with him in the AHL playing 25 minutes every night.

Chabot is not owed a spot on the roster, he'll have to develop and become an every day NHLer.

White also will have to prove himself at training camp, and may have a chance to win a center position with Kelly not returning, and Brassard may or may not be ready to start the season.

But if Boucher decides Smith is going to start the season as a center,and if and when Brassard is good to go, there is no reason why White can't play in the AHL as well, to start the season.



You have to look at the roster, and ask yourself who is going to sit if Chabot and White are handed starting positions............. and Boucher is known to be loyal to the players he knows, and until these two rookies prove themselves in the AHL, and whenever they're called up .......... I think, as usual, you're being way too optimistic, with thinking about the overall roster.
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: you'd want Couturier, Provolov and two firsts. This includes the #2 overall pick. - james tanner
Joined: 03.14.2014

Jun 9 @ 9:12 AM ET
Next year Ottawa adds White, Chabot and Harpur right at the beginning of the season. I think they will also be adding another top 6 skater by way of trade over the next few weeks.
- spatso


Plan the lottery party
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: you'd want Couturier, Provolov and two firsts. This includes the #2 overall pick. - james tanner
Joined: 03.14.2014

Jun 9 @ 9:13 AM ET
the reason everyone was expecting the leafs to be even worse last year is that they had so many rookies in the lineup. normally it takes rookies a year to adjust to the NHL. they don't normally contribute that much.

now, that isn't always true when it comes to elite prospects like Matthews, market, nylanser, Laine, and werenski. butbottawa doesn't have any of them. adding lower tier guys like that won't boost you in the standings. good chance they don't even make it past the 10 game mark.

- prock


Truth bomb
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: you'd want Couturier, Provolov and two firsts. This includes the #2 overall pick. - james tanner
Joined: 03.14.2014

Jun 9 @ 9:15 AM ET
I don't see Chabot starting the season with Ottawa ........... I see him sent down to Belleville after training camp ........... and called up at some point in the season.

I'm assume Claesson is lost to the expansion draft, leaving Phaneuf, Karlsson, Methot, Ceci, Borowiecki & Wideman as the starting six D Men with Hapur as the 7th D Man.

Unless Chabot "wins" a job in Training camp, which I doubt, there is no reason to leave him sitting in the pressbox (with Harpur) and getting a game here and there.

He, and the team is better served with him in the AHL playing 25 minutes every night.

Chabot is not owed a spot on the roster, he'll have to develop and become an every day NHLer.

White also will have to prove himself at training camp, and may have a chance to win a center position with Kelly not returning, and Brassard may or may not be ready to start the season.

But if Boucher decides Smith is going to start the season as a center,and if and when Brassard is good to go, there is no reason why White can't play in the AHL as well, to start the season.



You have to look at the roster, and ask yourself who is going to sit if Chabot and White are handed starting positions............. and Boucher is known to be loyal to the players he knows, and until these two rookies prove themselves in the AHL, and whenever they're called up .......... I think, as usual, you're being way too optimistic, with thinking about the overall roster.

- D0PPELGANGER


Good post, d0pps
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: you'd want Couturier, Provolov and two firsts. This includes the #2 overall pick. - james tanner
Joined: 03.14.2014

Jun 9 @ 9:15 AM ET
Ottawa's roster, even with all it's injuries, and players missing because of injuries, made it to the third round this season.

Next season there will be fewer older players, as a number of older players with expiring contracts will not be back, and a number of younger players will be added, perhaps not right from the start of the season, but over the course of the season.

Therefore the average age of the team will be lower next season.

- D0PPELGANGER


Bad post, d0pps
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Jun 9 @ 9:20 AM ET
the reason everyone was expecting the leafs to be even worse last year is that they had so many rookies in the lineup. normally it takes rookies a year to adjust to the NHL. they don't normally contribute that much.

now, that isn't always true when it comes to elite prospects like Matthews, market, nylanser, Laine, and werenski. butbottawa doesn't have any of them. adding lower tier guys like that won't boost you in the standings. good chance they don't even make it past the 10 game mark.

- prock


Matthews spent a season in Switzerland, but regardless, I think he could have made the 30th placed leafs without that year, but the rest of the rookies, benefited from time in the AHL, if I'm not mistaken .......... and you can label anyone you like as "elite" but from my point of view Matthews is the only one deserving of that status.

Sure a couple of other rookies had pretty good seasons, playing a system that fit their abilities and allowed them to rack up points in the regular season............. but when it came to the playoffs, they were not up to the task............but that's expected for rookies, no shame intended.



Ottawa's "rookies", in my opinion should all spend a season in the AHL, and should not just be handed roster spots on a team, that made the final four, and came within a goal in overtime from advancing to the Finals
senstroll
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Jun 9 @ 9:41 AM ET
Next year Ottawa adds White, Chabot and Harpur right at the beginning of the season. I think they will also be adding another top 6 skater by way of trade over the next few weeks.
- spatso


White and Harpur are not going to move the needle. If they are average replacement level players as rookies then thats a good season. Dont expect much more

You did this same stuff with Ottawa when they were going to add several young elite prospect like Prince and Pimple or Nosesun and whoever else was going to lead the charge in the Sen 3 year rebuild of 2011-2014



prock
Nashville Predators
Location: Nice to know how comfortable t, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jun 9 @ 10:03 AM ET

Ottawa's "rookies", in my opinion should all spend a season in the AHL, and should not just be handed roster spots on a team, that made the final four, and came within a goal in overtime from advancing to the Finals

- D0PPELGANGER



It's better for them long term. But the question is, is the long term (3 to 5 years from now), really going to do the senaturds any good?

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