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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
daeth
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: accuratently, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Jun 7 @ 11:55 PM ET
of course he likes a player called white
twiztedmike
Seattle Kraken
Joined: 10.06.2007

Jun 8 @ 12:16 AM ET
of course he likes a player called white
- daeth

cause he's a MAN
senstroll
Location: New Fan, Needs to watch Ballet, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Jun 8 @ 9:13 AM ET
Not a problem. I have great confidence that the Sens will lead the Atlantic next season.
- spatso


Nah, they will miss the Playoffs
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Jun 8 @ 9:20 AM ET
Nah, they will miss the Playoffs
- senstroll


Hey, I would not be surprised if both Ontario teams miss the playoffs .......... IF both teams return with basically the same rosters that they finished the season with.

There are a lot of teams in the Conference that look like they'll be improving on their 2016-17 performances, and competition for the 2 WC spots will be tougher than this past season.
senstroll
Location: New Fan, Needs to watch Ballet, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Jun 8 @ 9:38 AM ET
Hey, I would not be surprised if both Ontario teams miss the playoffs .......... IF both teams return with basically the same rosters that they finished the season with.

There are a lot of teams in the Conference that look like they'll be improving on their 2016-17 performances, and competition for the 2 WC spots will be tougher than this past season.

- D0PPELGANGER


Leafs are fine, they will improve, they lost a lot of games in OT/SO after giving up many late leads. that got better as the season went on. Leafs had sustainable underlying stats, Sens not so much
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Jun 8 @ 9:47 AM ET
Leafs are fine, they will improve, they lost a lot of games in OT/SO after giving up many late leads. that got better as the season went on. Leafs had sustainable underlying stats, Sens not so much
- senstroll


So are you saying that if the leafs return with basically the same lineup, and no significant UFA signings, you expect to see them end the season with more points than last year?

Is each player gong to improve 5% each?
twiztedmike
Seattle Kraken
Joined: 10.06.2007

Jun 8 @ 9:50 AM ET
Leafs are fine, they will improve, they lost a lot of games in OT/SO after giving up many late leads. that got better as the season went on. Leafs had sustainable underlying stats, Sens not so much
- senstroll

they could just as easily not win as many LOSER points as last year because they are LOSERS LOL!!!!11!!111one
senstroll
Location: New Fan, Needs to watch Ballet, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Jun 8 @ 9:58 AM ET
So are you saying that if the leafs return with basically the same lineup, and no significant UFA signings, you expect to see them end the season with more points than last year?

Is each player gong to improve 5% each?

- D0PPELGANGER


the lineup wont be the same, but sure if its close to the same they will still improve
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jun 8 @ 11:16 AM ET
Hey, I would not be surprised if both Ontario teams miss the playoffs .......... IF both teams return with basically the same rosters that they finished the season with.

There are a lot of teams in the Conference that look like they'll be improving on their 2016-17 performances, and competition for the 2 WC spots will be tougher than this past season.

- D0PPELGANGER



The division will be wide wide open next year.

But my bet is on the Leafs to win it. With all the cap room they have to play with, and the phenomenal management team they have, I expect they'll bring in at least one top notch defensive dman. Maybe 2.

I think the Leafs' toughest competition will come from the Bolts. The Habs could be near the top again, it all depends on Carey Price really. They won't be any better, but if things go right for them, they could end next season roughly with the same number of points. Boston is in a similar position. They could remain the same, could regress. At some point in the next few years, Boston will have a brief dip, between their old guard giving up the reins and the new guard taking over.

Florida and Buffalo are total wildcards. Detroit sucks. Ottawa could back into a playoff spot again with some more chincy shootout points, but most likely miss the playoffs.

Now, all of this is predicated on what I think teams are most likely to do this offseason.

Leafs are set to fill some holes. Buffalo might fill a couple, might trade Kane, mostly lateral changes. Ottawa deluded into thinking they're great, will stand pat. Detroit will make big changes, but won't see the results for a few years. Florida hard to tell. Tampa won't do much, cap constrained, and will see what happens when they're healthy. Habs won't do much either.
senstroll
Location: New Fan, Needs to watch Ballet, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Jun 8 @ 11:17 AM ET
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: avid reader of the daily douche news
Joined: 03.14.2014

Jun 8 @ 11:30 AM ET

- senstroll




looks like a minority of sens fans get it.

most will be in for a disappointing shock.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jun 8 @ 11:54 AM ET
It's a little out of control
- Tumbleweed



Also, don't get me wrong, I think they'll do fine with the guys they've drafted. But if they think it's a foregone conclusion that they'll have the best blueline in the league at some point soon, they're kidding themselves.

Who has the best blueline now? I doubt you'll find too many top defensive teams have bulit their blueline entirely out of the draft. The only one I can think of right now is Anaheim, and while they're good, they're not really "the best".

If you get that many good D prospects, you'll probably get a few good dmen out of it. Provorov a first pairing guy. Maybe one other of them. and then another depth pairing guy. Then 2 or 3 bust.

If all of then turn into NHL dmen of ANY caliber, they should consider themselves VERY lucky. Odds are near zero. My guess, Myers and Hagg never play a full season, Morin a replaceable depth guy. Provorov first pairing guy, Sanheim 2/3 guy, Ghost is a PP specialist for life.
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: avid reader of the daily douche news
Joined: 03.14.2014

Jun 8 @ 11:57 AM ET
Also, don't get me wrong, I think they'll do fine with the guys they've drafted. But if they think it's a foregone conclusion that they'll have the best blueline in the league at some point soon, they're kidding themselves.

Who has the best blueline now? I doubt you'll find too many top defensive teams have bulit their blueline entirely out of the draft. The only one I can think of right now is Anaheim, and while they're good, they're not really "the best".

If you get that many good D prospects, you'll probably get a few good dmen out of it. Provorov a first pairing guy. Maybe one other of them. and then another depth pairing guy. Then 2 or 3 bust.

If all of then turn into NHL dmen of ANY caliber, they should consider themselves VERY lucky. Odds are near zero. My guess, Myers and Hagg never play a full season, Morin a replaceable depth guy. Provorov first pairing guy, Sanheim 2/3 guy, Ghost is a PP specialist for life.

- prock


That’s the thing – they are assuming everyone of those guys will hit their potential. They’re not thinking that some will hit it, some will come under it and some will be flat out busts.
senstroll
Location: New Fan, Needs to watch Ballet, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Jun 8 @ 1:12 PM ET
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Jun 8 @ 2:58 PM ET
Played in the third round................. did wee Willy Nylander make it to the third round?
- D0PPELGANGER

ooh, are you trying to compare White to Nylander?



Please say yes.
jordan456789
Joined: 10.27.2007

Jun 8 @ 4:41 PM ET
not sure why, but the qmjhl just does not produce decent dmen. its very rare. qmjhl dmen drafted in the first round since 2010. Gormley, beaulieu, Samuel Morin, Jacob zboril, and chabot.
- prock


And three of them played in Saint John. If you go back to the 2009 draft there is Simon Despres
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Jun 8 @ 5:05 PM ET
the lineup wont be the same, but sure if its close to the same they will still improve
- senstroll


So then by your logic, Ottawa will also improve.
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: avid reader of the daily douche news
Joined: 03.14.2014

Jun 8 @ 5:12 PM ET
So then by your logic, Ottawa will also improve.
- D0PPELGANGER


Answer me this.

Did Ottawa’s roster mostly consist of old players getting worse or young players getting better?
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jun 8 @ 5:41 PM ET
And three of them played in Saint John. If you go back to the 2009 draft there is Simon Despres
- jordan456789


Well, yeah, I said QMJHL. It sounds like you're referring to Quebec not producing Dmen. Truer to an even larger extent.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jun 8 @ 5:47 PM ET
So then by your logic, Ottawa will also improve.
- D0PPELGANGER


You mean, you think the senaturds roster is full of young players that you expect to be playing key positions under the age of 24 in the steep upswing of their careers? And you think they don't have many players over the age of 30, that one would normally expect to decline?



If that's what you think, you're pretty out to lunch.

Nucker101
Seattle Kraken
Location: Empty The Clip, ME
Joined: 09.26.2010

Jun 8 @ 5:56 PM ET

- senstroll

Seems about right if you factor in the population by province, actually surprised the Leafs aren't a bit higher.

Most of the "other" is actually coming from Ontario and the unrepresented provinces
twiztedmike
Seattle Kraken
Joined: 10.06.2007

Jun 8 @ 5:58 PM ET
Seems about right if you factor in the population by province, actually surprised the Leafs aren't a bit higher.

Most of the "other" is actually coming from Ontario and the unrepresented provinces

- Nucker101

Jets coming back probably affected them a little. Probably a few grumps who are marked as "none" as well.

Then you have your spatstards and d0pps
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jun 8 @ 5:59 PM ET
Seems about right if you factor in the population by province, actually surprised the Leafs aren't a bit higher.
- Nucker101



Probably shouldn't be doing it by province though. Lots of Sabres fans in the region South of Hamilton (St Catharines and such). Lots of Wings fans in the Windsor region of Ontario. Several regions of Ontario closer to other teams (including the senaturds, even though no one cares about them). The Habs have most of Eastern Canada (especially the French speaking areas of NB and NS).

If you're looking for regional population sizes, you'd have to slice it up a little differently than that (just province).
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Jun 8 @ 7:08 PM ET
So then by your logic, Ottawa will also improve.
- D0PPELGANGER

No, because the logic is based on a couple of key things:
1) Leafs had three youngsters that came in and wrecked poop. Players that perform at their level rarely see a softmore slump, and usually continue to improve. The Sens had no noteworthy youngsters who can be expected to improve, nor do they have any prospects that could be difference makers next season.

2) Leafs had strong underlying stats, which indicates that they won't be regressing, and may in fact have underperformed this last season. The Sens had very weak underlying numbers, and are a prime candidate for regression, after clearly over performing.

3) Your favourite: loser points. The Leafs saw a lot of games that's they were leading in go to overtime, leading to an eventual loss. An inability to hold leads is normal for an inexperienced group. Furthermore, the Leafs lost an abnormally high number of OT/SO games. OT/SO proficiency changes from year to year for any team, as a great deal of luck is involved. So many of those one point games may likely be 2 point Ws for the Leafs this coming season.

4) Purely Sens point here: Anderson has a history of regressing after a strong season. The Sens's possession-phobic system relies on strong goaltending. Good luck!
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Jun 8 @ 7:10 PM ET
Hey, I would not be surprised if both Ontario teams miss the playoffs .......... IF both teams return with basically the same rosters that they finished the season with.

There are a lot of teams in the Conference that look like they'll be improving on their 2016-17 performances, and competition for the 2 WC spots will be tougher than this past season.

- D0PPELGANGER

So you agree that the Sens didn't belong in the 3rd round?
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