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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jan 27 @ 2:00 PM ET
Don't forget, Chara asked to be made Captain as well.
- Doppleganger
I dont think that had as much to do with it ,as Muckler screw jobbing his best friend hossa,he was never gonna sign here after that .I knew i guy that was pretty tight with guys like him and hossa ,lets just say chara was pissed
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Jan 27 @ 2:04 PM ET
I dont think that had as much to do with it ,as Muckler screw jobbing his best friend hossa,he was never gonna sign here after that .I knew i guy that was pretty tight with guys like him and hossa ,lets just say chara was pissed

- top shelf 15


Oh I agree, that was the biggest trigger for him to decide to move on after his contract expired. But he did ask to be made Captain, fully aware that it was not going to be possible and making it impossible for Ottawa to meet that and other demands.

His signing with Boston has made the split second he became a UFA, clearly showing he was not interested in re-signing.
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jan 27 @ 2:08 PM ET
Oh I agree, that was the biggest trigger for him to decide to move on after his contract expired. But he did ask to be made Captain, fully aware that it was not going to be possible and making it impossible for Ottawa to meet that and other demands.

His signing with Boston has made the split second he became a UFA, clearly showing he was not interested in re-signing.

- Doppleganger

Yep it was pretty much on the wall ,Muckler had a choice to make the summer before ,we were right against the cap and by trading hossa we saved 2 mil thus allowing us to resign someone else .In the end it cost us far too much
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Jan 27 @ 2:37 PM ET
Yep it was pretty much on the wall ,Muckler had a choice to make the summer before ,we were right against the cap and by trading hossa we saved 2 mil thus allowing us to resign someone else .In the end it cost us far too much
- top shelf 15



Hindsight is always 20/20. If they kept Hossa after they re-signed him to that three-year, $18-million would they have fared better with him or Heatley in the line up when they went to the Finals two seasons later?

Would they have been able to keep Chara happy and a part of the team that went to the finals, who knows, as you pointed out the Senators were right up to the Cap back in those seasons, so who instead would have been moved out to accommodate the contract demands of both Hossa and then Chara??

Some people think the only way to win the Cup, is to spend to the Cap, but as far as I'm concerned, it's not a sure thing as most people think it is.

The team with the best record in the NHL today has just over $7 million in cap space, and could potentially bring in players at the deadline to increase their chances at winning the Cup.

Whereas the team with the least amount of cap space has it's hands tied, and could not bring in any player that would increase it's chances, without having to give up something(s) of value that would not put them any closer to the Cup, as addition by subtraction rarely is a winning formula.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Jan 27 @ 2:42 PM ET
Don't forget, Chara asked to be made Captain as well.
- Doppleganger

do you have any sources to back this up?
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Jan 27 @ 2:44 PM ET
Those guys are all locked up ,and Ceci is on his elc,zib is an rfa with not enough proven at the nhl level.EM has shown he will spend on keeping higher end pieces that will make him money for the long haul .He is a cheapskate no matter what ,but he will spend to make money .If he doesnt sign guys like ryan and methot etc he knows his season ticket base will suffer ,so i dont see this as an issue.Signing or trading for a guy that has a big contract to put us over the top ,is something he wont do however and that,s the real issue in ottawa
- top shelf 15

See, that doesn't really make sense, as if he spent on a big UFA who put them over the top, they'd likely get more fans, or at least be able to charge the current ones more without a falloff in attendance.

The fact is, he just doesn't want to spend the money... and that cheapness probably won't discriminate against UFAs from other teams and the UFAs on his own team.
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jan 27 @ 2:46 PM ET
See, that doesn't really make sense, as if he spent on a big UFA who put them over the top, they'd likely get more fans, or at least be able to charge the current ones more without a falloff in attendance.

The fact is, he just doesn't want to spend the money... and that cheapness probably won't discriminate against UFAs from other teams and the UFAs on his own team.

- Feeling Glucky?
He is alleged to have said he will spend to the cap when he thinks the team is real close,now whether that is true or not ,no one really knows except for EM
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Jan 27 @ 4:09 PM ET
do you have any sources to back this up?
- Feeling Glucky?



It's been talked about on the local sports radio station numerous times since he left.

Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Jan 27 @ 4:22 PM ET
Turris - serious offensive player

Bookmark this thread, we can revisit in a month

- senstroll



52 games so far, with17 goals and 40 points, and a +19.

4 PP goals, 2 SH goals & 2 GWG.

Not bad for a player with 3 and a half seasons worth of games, in the NHL, under his belt.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Jan 27 @ 4:36 PM ET
Ottawa Traded away Bishop for Conacher and a 4th. CC is is pace for 25 points

Bishop is leading the NHL is sv%, has 25 wins and I heard on the Sens radio last night could be in the discussion for league MVP.

Sens have 22 Wins, Bishop 25



Mistake?

- senstroll



Last year Bishop had good stats when he played in Ottawa, but Both Anderson and Lehner had better.

So if you had to trade one of them, would you trade one of the two with better stats, who also were under contract for the nest season or two.

Or would you have traded the one who had an expiring contract, and had the lower stats of the three?

Craig Anderson 1.69 GAA .941 Sv%
Robin Lehner... 2.20 GAA .936 Sv%
Ben Bishop ......2.45 GAA .922 Sv%
Morris
Referee
Edmonton Oilers
Location: Hall looks disengaged, NS
Joined: 07.18.2007

Jan 27 @ 4:40 PM ET
Last year Bishop had good stats when he played in Ottawa, but Both Anderson and Lehner had better.

So if you had to trade one of them, would you trade one of the two with better stats, who also were under contract for the nest season or two.

Or would you have traded the one who had an expiring contract, and had the lower stats of the three?

Craig Anderson 1.69 GAA .941 Sv%
Robin Lehner... 2.20 GAA .936 Sv%
Ben Bishop ......2.45 GAA .922 Sv%

- Doppleganger

The eternal meta-argument about whether to judge trades by the information known at the time, or how it shakes out...

I seem to remember another trade judged first by one, then by the other, then back the first way again...
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Jan 27 @ 4:48 PM ET
The eternal meta-argument about whether to judge trades by the information known at the time, or how it shakes out...

I seem to remember another trade judged first by one, then by the other, then back the first way again...

- Morris



But a GM, who does not own a time machine, is only limited to the information known at the time.


Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Jan 27 @ 4:56 PM ET
It's been talked about on the local sports radio station numerous times since he left.
- Doppleganger

So...

no.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jan 28 @ 4:57 AM ET
Senators currently at .522 leafs at .521............I guess the leafs are "Absolute horsecrap, terrible, junk, for an NHL team" eh?
- Doppleganger


That's what I said. And that's what I meant. The Sens are total crap.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jan 28 @ 4:59 AM ET
52 games so far, with17 goals and 40 points, and a +19.

4 PP goals, 2 SH goals & 2 GWG.

Not bad for a player with 3 and a half seasons worth of games, in the NHL, under his belt.

- Doppleganger



Whoa, he might just break 50 points for the first time in his career. 50 whole points. I mean, he already made this his career year when he hit 30 points.
the_cause2000
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Not quite my tempo
Joined: 02.26.2007

Jan 28 @ 8:19 AM ET
This topic bores me
nightmare3020
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Windsor Area, ON
Joined: 08.23.2006

Jan 28 @ 9:23 AM ET
This topic bores me
- the_cause2000

this comment bores me
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Jan 28 @ 9:36 AM ET


Nice to hear, as opposed to the Ottawa GM, who;s made it clear he is willing to trade youth and has traded a top prospect for a 2nd liner and what may still be a lottery pick, when all is said and done, for a player that is likely to walk.

- Feeling Glucky?



sources?
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Jan 28 @ 9:51 AM ET
sources?
- Doppleganger

Logic & franchise history.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Jan 28 @ 10:01 AM ET
Logic & franchise history.
- Feeling Glucky?


so wishful thinking eh?
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jan 28 @ 10:06 AM ET
so wishful thinking eh?

- Doppleganger



Couldn't the same be said about Sens fans claiming he will be re-signed? In fact, give the lack of reasons for him to stay, wouldn't it be more accurate to call it wishful thinking he will re-sign?
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Jan 28 @ 10:08 AM ET
Couldn't the same be said about Sens fans claiming he will be re-signed? In fact, give the lack of reasons for him to stay, wouldn't it be more accurate to call it wishful thinking he will re-sign?
- prock



what reasons are lacking?
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Jan 28 @ 10:13 AM ET
what reasons are lacking?
- Doppleganger


budget to sign him
lower taxes of the US
good team
hometown is elsewhere
larger cosmopolitan city
warmer climate (like he just came from)

There is just about every reason to leave, and none to stay.

He's also reportedly said he will be testing free agency, when he was in Anaheim, from what I understand.

If I were a betting man, I'd put it at 90% he'll be gone.
the_cause2000
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Not quite my tempo
Joined: 02.26.2007

Jan 28 @ 10:13 AM ET
what reasons are lacking?
- Doppleganger

please refer to entire thread
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Jan 28 @ 10:26 AM ET
budget to sign him
lower taxes of the US
good team
hometown is elsewhere
larger cosmopolitan city
warmer climate (like he just came from)

There is just about every reason to leave, and none to stay.

He's also reportedly said he will be testing free agency, when he was in Anaheim, from what I understand.

If I were a betting man, I'd put it at 90% he'll be gone.

- prock



Almost all of these "reasons" could have been applied to Kessel, and he was resigned.

Kessel hinted at looking at free agency
Ontario taxes are higher, as you pointed out
Ottawa and toronto are "good teams" not contenders as you pointed out
Kessel's hometown is elsewhere
Climate in Ottawa is pretty much the same as toronto

And if you think "larger cosmopolitan city" is a plus over a smaller more livable city, you would have a hard time proving that as a reason a UFA bases his decision on that, when choosing where to play.


If you think Ottawa made the trade for Ryan, thinking they'd have zero chance of convincing him to sign a new contract, then I'd call into question your ability to see things objectively.


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