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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Apr 20 @ 9:48 AM ET
Yeah, I guess a team should score at least one goal, when they have a 5 on 3 advantage ............ on a clean sheet of ice, to begin a period, in a game they're trailing, on home ice.


- D0PPELGANGER

Leafs' worst game, and they still put 4 goals behind the best team in the league.

I don't think there has been a team as talented as the current Leafs and Oilers in Canada since the Oilers' dynasty.
Not_Yan
Montreal Canadiens
Location: it's an excellent product, easier, quicker, and even better than real mashed potatoes.
Joined: 04.19.2013

Apr 20 @ 9:51 AM ET

Updated


G - Price
D - Karlsson
D - Burns
A - Laine
A - Turris
A -
twiztedmike
Toronto Maple Leafs
Joined: 10.06.2007

Apr 20 @ 9:51 AM ET
Updated


G - Price
D - Karlsson
D - Burns
A - Laine
A - Turris
A - McDavid

- Not_Yan

wow McDavid sucks!!
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Apr 20 @ 9:54 AM ET
Would you take him on the Leafs for free?
- senstroll



we have enough of the offensive type. toi much ifbitbwill get you nowhere. if ibwere alliwed to trade Rielly or Gardiner yes, otherwise I wouldn't want burns, Rielly, and Gardiner all in the top 4. you'll never win like that.
daeth
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Drink full, and descend, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Apr 20 @ 9:59 AM ET
Updated


G - Price
D - Karlsson
D - Burns
A - Laine
A - Turris
A -

- Not_Yan

to be fair turris is pretty meh. nearly every team has a turris
twiztedmike
Toronto Maple Leafs
Joined: 10.06.2007

Apr 20 @ 10:10 AM ET
to be fair turris is pretty meh. nearly every team has a turris
- daeth

Bozak
daeth
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Drink full, and descend, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Apr 20 @ 10:29 AM ET
Bozak
- twiztedmike

kadri is closer. toronto's 4th best forward lol.
twiztedmike
Toronto Maple Leafs
Joined: 10.06.2007

Apr 20 @ 10:30 AM ET
kadri is closer. toronto's 4th best forward lol.
- daeth

yesssssssss
daeth
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Drink full, and descend, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Apr 20 @ 10:35 AM ET
yesssssssss
- twiztedmike

is turris the 2nd best forward for the sens after laine or are hoffman and stone ahead too?
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Apr 20 @ 11:13 AM ET
nah. hedman and doughty are better.
- prock


would you take either of them for free?
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Apr 20 @ 11:18 AM ET
Leafs' worst game, and they still put 4 goals behind the best team in the league.

I don't think there has been a team as talented as the current Leafs and Oilers in Canada since the Oilers' dynasty.

- Feeling Glucky?



but if you don't score more goals than you allow ........... oh wait, what am I doing ...... logic is not what you want to hear ............ it's the "underlying numbers" right?

D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Apr 20 @ 11:20 AM ET
The "underlying numbers" clearly show the Bruins won the fancy boy stats game last night.



senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Apr 20 @ 11:27 AM ET
The "underlying numbers" clearly show the Bruins won the fancy boy stats game last night.




- D0PPELGANGER


basically Karlsson



prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Apr 20 @ 11:36 AM ET
would you take either of them for free?
- D0PPELGANGER



Hell yes, either one of those, without removing any other dmen from the Leafs, and the Leafs are contenders.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Apr 20 @ 11:37 AM ET
basically Karlsson


- senstroll


that's pretty impressive. He must have had a good game.
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Apr 20 @ 11:49 AM ET
basically Karlsson


- senstroll



So if you remove the best player off of every team, the impact would be similar.

Last time I checked, NHL hockey, is a team game, and Karlsson, and other teams' "best players" are part of their respective teams .............. so not sure what you're trying to prove hear, with Karlsson .......... but I think it holds true for every playoff team.

Crosby
Price
Lundqvist
Ovechkin
Matthews
Tarasenko
Burns
Forsberg
McDavid



prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Apr 20 @ 11:58 AM ET
So if you remove the best player off of every team, the impact would be similar.

Last time I checked, NHL hockey, is a team game, and Karlsson, and other teams' "best players" are part of their respective teams .............. so not sure what you're trying to prove hear, with Karlsson .......... but I think it holds true for every playoff team.

Crosby
Price
Lundqvist
Ovechkin
Matthews
Tarasenko
Burns
Forsberg
McDavid

- D0PPELGANGER



I would pretty confidently say that is much more than the typical difference, at least on a good team. Much more in fact.

But I'd also pretty confidently say that's not the norm for Karlsson. We can actually say that for fact, given that on average, the senaturds give up more shots with him on the ice. In fact, the ratio of shots FOR the senaturds, vs shots against, in comparison to the rest of the team, is actually pretty neutral (slightly positive) for karlson.
senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Apr 20 @ 12:14 PM ET
that's pretty impressive. He must have had a good game.
- prock


thats going to be for the series. the Goal differential would give that away
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Apr 20 @ 12:15 PM ET
but if you don't score more goals than you allow ........... oh wait, what am I doing ...... logic is not what you want to hear ............ it's the "underlying numbers" right?
- D0PPELGANGER

If you ever had any to share, I'd be down to give it a read. Not holding my breath.


I don't think any metric has the Leafs as the superior team from last night's game. They were awful all around. And they still made it a close game with the best team in the league. The point I'm making is, if Toronto, playing their worst game, still went toe-to-toe with Washington playing their self-described best game... That's an impressive feat in it's own right.
senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Apr 20 @ 12:16 PM ET
So if you remove the best player off of every team, the impact would be similar.

Last time I checked, NHL hockey, is a team game, and Karlsson, and other teams' "best players" are part of their respective teams .............. so not sure what you're trying to prove hear, with Karlsson .......... but I think it holds true for every playoff team.

Crosby
Price
Lundqvist
Ovechkin
Matthews
Tarasenko
Burns
Forsberg
McDavid

- D0PPELGANGER


I think there are a few extremes in this case, Karlsson and Mcdavid probably being the ones that mean the most to thier teams success


Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Apr 20 @ 1:30 PM ET
I think there are a few extremes in this case, Karlsson and Mcdavid probably being the ones that mean the most to thier teams success
- senstroll

Price also has the dual distinction of being MTL's goalie and best player, so he could safely be included with those two.
senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Apr 20 @ 2:05 PM ET
Price also has the dual distinction of being MTL's goalie and best player, so he could safely be included with those two.
- Feeling Glucky?


Oh, I was only looking at position players not goalies.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Apr 20 @ 2:09 PM ET
I think there are a few extremes in this case, Karlsson and Mcdavid probably being the ones that mean the most to thier teams success
- senstroll


I think that is correct.

Last year Edmonton made the decision to rebuild around McDavid and moved some pieces out and brought in others to shape the team around McDavid.

Ottawa did the same thing with Karlsson. Do not discount how important it has been for the Sens to bring in Phaneuf to play #3. Karlsson played less minutes this year and he has ended the season far fresher than last year.

The Sens are a counter attack team. Last night we saw long stretches where Boston had no shots. Yet possession stats suggest Boston had full control of the game even though they had great difficulty in getting near the net.

We have seen this all year. How do you explain it from a fancy stat perspective?
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Apr 20 @ 2:31 PM ET
I think that is correct.

Last year Edmonton made the decision to rebuild around McDavid and moved some pieces out and brought in others to shape the team around McDavid.

Ottawa did the same thing with Karlsson. Do not discount how important it has been for the Sens to bring in Phaneuf to play #3. Karlsson played less minutes this year and he has ended the season far fresher than last year.

The Sens are a counter attack team. Last night we saw long stretches where Boston had no shots. Yet possession stats suggest Boston had full control of the game even though they had great difficulty in getting near the net.

We have seen this all year. How do you explain it from a fancy stat perspective?

- spatso

There's nothing to explain. The Leafs used to do the same thing. It wasn't sustainable.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Apr 20 @ 4:24 PM ET
There's nothing to explain. The Leafs used to do the same thing. It wasn't sustainable.
- Feeling Glucky?


Seriously, I do not understand how Boston can appear to dominate in terms of possession without registering as many shots on goal or having as many red zone shots? I understand how the possession numbers can be indicative of outcomes in high scoring games. But, what does it mean against a team that does not allow many goals.
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