Wanna blog? Start your own hockey blog with My HockeyBuzz. Register for free today!
 
Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
jordan456789
Joined: 10.27.2007

Jan 13 @ 5:47 PM ET
Senators currently at .522 leafs at .521............I guess the leafs are "Absolute horsecrap, terrible, junk, for an NHL team" eh?
- Doppleganger


Where is prock these days?
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Jan 14 @ 9:32 AM ET
You can trust your Ottawa scouts.... What makes you think the Phoenix scouts and coaches weren't well aware of what Turris' potential and his issues may be?
- prock



Well Ottawa's Management team From GM Bryan Murry right down to the scouting staff were BANG ON with it's assessment of Turris as it turns out.


You've tried for a couple of years now to convince anyone who would listen that Ottawa gave up their "Top prospect" in Rundblad for what you wished would have turned out to be a bust.

Well Turris is now Ottawa's top center and leads the team with a +17..........while Rundblad has played only 25 games for the Coyotes since they got fleeced by Ottawa over two years ago.

Perhaps if you were a little more informed on Ottawa's history of scouting assessing and developing players you would not have made this mistake.


Other teams in the NHL have recognized this strength in Ottawa, and a few have even sought out their GMs from within the Ottawa management team.

Brain drain continues

Senators have a long history of developing on- and off-ice talent for competing organizations

By Wayne Scanlan, OTTAWA CITIZEN January 10, 2014


For years, followers of this organization have watched players like Zdeno Chara, Marian Hossa, Martin Havlat, Pavol Demitra, Mike Fisher and even Daniel Alfredsson leave for happy hunting elsewhere (in Fisher’s case, we do mean hunting).

Some were traded, others walked out the door as free agents.

Less considered is the hockey management brain drain that has long been a Senators tradition. Like many clubs in the transient NHL, the Senators have a history of developing hockey operations staff for the benefit of rivals.

We were reminded of this when assistant general manager Tim Murray left on Thursday to become GM of the Buffalo Sabres.

Murray had been an AGM in Ottawa since 2007, and has been largely responsible for rebuilding the organization’s vital player development program in the AHL with the Binghamton Senators.

Murray left behind capable staff, including director of player personnel Pierre Dorion and Randy Lee, the director of hockey operations/player development. Both will see their responsibilities rise in twin assistant GM roles. Dorion flew to Nashville to meet with Senators GM Bryan Murray on Friday.

Over the years, the Senators have had a lively history of management types coming and going, dating back to the “retirement” of general manager Pierre Gauthier for family reasons in June of 1998. Apparently, the “family” preferred to live in Anaheim, where Gauthier had previously worked. In July of 1998, Gauthier became president of the Anaheim Mighty Ducks, and by August, he added the GM duties. Some retirement.

Gauthier’s departure, after two and half seasons, sparked a run of extremely brief management eras, to the point that the Senators were beginning to get an inferiority complex.

Was it something somebody said?

In the late 1990s, the Senators could not hold onto to a general manager. Between December of 1995 and June of 1999, the Senators organization had four different GMs: Randy Sexton (1993-95), Gauthier, Rick Dudley and Marshall Johnston, burning them up at a furious pace until the longer reigns of John Muckler (2002-2007) and Bryan Murray (2007 to present day).

Quietly, Murray has become the longest-serving GM in franchise history, an impressive seven-year run considering he took on the gig at age 64.

After Gauthier left, there wasn’t huge concern because the club had a capable replacement in Rick Dudley. But when Dudley bolted after just one year to become GM of the Tampa Bay Lightning, the Senators demanded compensation before letting Dudley go.

What followed was one of the strangest deals in the club’s history. Dudley joined Tampa Bay, along with Ottawa forward Andreas Johansson. In exchange, the Senators acquired a second-round draft pick from the Lightning plus the revenues of two pre-season games between the clubs.

That last bit was a sign of the times for an Ottawa club that would ultimately require bankruptcy protection.

Following Dudley, longtime NHL player personnel director Marshall Johnston, who helped build the New Jersey Devils, rose from the ranks in Ottawa to become the team’s fifth GM. Johnston was a good one, best remembered for swindling the New York Islanders at the 2001 draft by dealing Alexei Yashin to the New York Islanders in exchange for a giant defenceman named Zdeno Chara, plus forward Bill Muckalt and the Isles’ second overall pick, used to draft centre Jason Spezza.

When Johnston left the Senators in 2002, Muckler and Murray brought stability to the top office, but that hasn’t stopped a wave of talented younger staffers from leaving to take on bigger roles elsewhere.

Tim Murray is merely the latest in a long list that includes:

Jim Nill: A scout in the startup years of the Senators, Nill joined the Red Wings and took on increasingly important roles in Detroit’s hockey department before jumping to the Dallas Stars last year to be their GM. Nill is directing a rebuild in Texas.

Ray Shero: You know him today as the GM of the Pittsburgh Penguins, 2009 Stanley Cup champions. But before he joined the Penguins in 2006, Shero was an assistant GM in Nashville and Ottawa (1993-98). Shero was part of the St. Lawrence University mob that included early Senators GM Randy Sexton and one-time assistant coach Pierre McGuire.

Peter Chiarelli: Yet another former Senators AGM, and a strong candidate to succeed Muckler. A lawyer by profession, Chiarelli did a lot of contract work for the Sens over a seven-year period before getting a chance to become the Boston Bruins’ GM in 2006. Like Shero, Chiarelli built a Cup winner (2011) and a perennial contender.

Jarmo Kekalainen: Behind the scenes for the Senators, Kekalainen was an astute evaluator of talent and worked for Ottawa from his native Finland before moving here in 1999 to become director of player personnel. He joined the St. Louis Blues in 2002 and one year ago became the NHL’s first European GM when he was hired by the Columbus Blue Jackets.

Trevor Timmins: An Almonte native, Timmins was once a strength coach and team services director, working his way up the scouting ranks with the Senators to director of hockey operations from 1999-2002. Time flies. Timmins has now been with the Montreal Canadiens for 12 years, and is their director of amateur scouting.

Note the mass scouting exodus in 2002: Johnston, Kekalainen, Timmins. In 2007, Murray reinstituted an emphasis on scouting and development.
the_cause2000
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Not quite my tempo
Joined: 02.26.2007

Jan 14 @ 11:56 AM ET
Leafs I'd say
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Jan 14 @ 11:58 AM ET
Leafs I'd say
- the_cause2000

Better than the team that has awesome scouts(because they traded the bust they drafted for a 2nd line center)?
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Jan 14 @ 12:26 PM ET
Talking about a "bust".........how about the UFA signing of Kelly Clarkson??

3 goals , 8 points and a -5 .

And think about the 6 years left on the contract.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Jan 14 @ 12:33 PM ET
Interesting... despite being a budget bubble team, Murray wants to start trading more youth for immediate help.

Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Jan 14 @ 12:40 PM ET
Interesting... despite being a budget bubble team, Murray wants to start trading more youth for immediate help.


- Feeling Glucky?



links?

BTW have you heard the Kadri & Gardiner trade rumours?
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Jan 14 @ 12:52 PM ET
links?

BTW have you heard the Kadri & Gardiner trade rumours?

- Doppleganger

http://espn.go.com/blog/n...tting-ready-to-make-deals


And yup. Those are just rumours- hopefully they don't happen, unless it's for another good young player who matches the team's needs more... similar to Blacker for Holland, or Schenn for JVR.

This however is straight from the horses mouth.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Jan 14 @ 1:03 PM ET
http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/28747/sens-murray-getting-ready-to-make-deals


And yup. Those are just rumours- hopefully they don't happen, unless it's for another good young player who matches the team's needs more... similar to Blacker for Holland, or Schenn for JVR.

This however is straight from the horses mouth.

- Feeling Glucky?



So you would agree that it's a good thing if Murray traded some "depth players" for another good young player who matches the team's needs more........similar to Rundblad for Turris, or Foligno for Methot?
senstroll
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Jan 14 @ 1:05 PM ET
http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/28747/sens-murray-getting-ready-to-make-deals


And yup. Those are just rumours- hopefully they don't happen, unless it's for another good young player who matches the team's needs more... similar to Blacker for Holland, or Schenn for JVR.

This however is straight from the horses mouth.

- Feeling Glucky?


I heard that interview. Sounds like he just wants to move some junk from Bingo or the Pageau's etc.. Not Zib, Lazar etc... Just players that cant make the sens... big deal
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jan 14 @ 1:07 PM ET
Interesting... despite being a budget bubble team, Murray wants to start trading more youth for immediate help.


- Feeling Glucky?
TBH ,its better than being a cap ceiling bubble team wouldnt you say
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Jan 14 @ 1:07 PM ET
So would agree that it's a good thing if Murray traded some "depth players" for another good young player who matches the team's needs more........similar to Rundblad for Turris, or Foligno for Methot?
- Doppleganger

eesh- you think Foligno for Methot was a good trade for Ottawa?
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Jan 14 @ 1:10 PM ET
TBH ,its better than being a cap ceiling bubble team wouldnt you say

- top shelf 15

Nope- at least being able to spend money means they have the means to fix what's wrong.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Jan 14 @ 1:13 PM ET
I heard that interview. Sounds like he just wants to move some junk from Bingo or the Pageau's etc.. Not Zib, Lazar etc... Just players that cant make the sens... big deal
- senstroll

Not gonna get much for that.

Who's going to trade for a player that can't make the Sens?
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jan 14 @ 1:13 PM ET
Nope- at least being able to spend money means they have the means to fix what's wrong.
- Feeling Glucky?
How so ??most FA are overpayed and overrated.Trying to rebuild your team starts at the draft table ,Ottawa has drafted very well and has the depth ,to make Ryan type deals while still maintaining a very good overall prospect base
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jan 14 @ 1:15 PM ET
eesh- you think Foligno for Methot was a good trade for Ottawa?
- Feeling Glucky?

Yes very ,Foligno makes almost 4 mil a season and isnt a top 6 player on most elite level teams .Methot is a very good top4 shutdown defender that makes the same money
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Jan 14 @ 1:15 PM ET
How so ??most FA are overpayed and overrated.Trying to rebuild your team starts at the draft table ,Ottawa has drafted very well and has the depth ,to make Ryan type deals while still maintaining a very good overall prospect base

- top shelf 15

Yes, but when you're a budget team, signing Ryan when his contract is up and he wants 7+M per year gets harder... and Dopps posted that article about the brain drain... think the good scouts are going to stick around if other teams offer them more?
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jan 14 @ 1:17 PM ET
Yes, but when you're a budget team, signing Ryan when his contract is up and he wants 7+M per year gets harder... and Dopps posted that article about the brain drain... think the good scouts are going to stick around if other teams offer them more?
- Feeling Glucky?
He wont walk ,ottawa will sign him .As for our scouts they are very well paid .First million BM spent as GM of our team was on them
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Jan 14 @ 1:18 PM ET
He wont walk ,ottawa will sign him .As for our scouts they are very well paid .First million BM spent as GM of our team was on them

- top shelf 15

1 mill for your entire scouting team?


oh boy.
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jan 14 @ 1:20 PM ET
1 mill for your entire scouting team?


oh boy.

- Feeling Glucky?
I think there are only 4 major scouts on our team ,it is one of the smallest staffs on the league ,as for Ryan even if he doesnt sign we will ship him out at the deadline next season
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Jan 14 @ 1:24 PM ET
I think there are only 4 major scouts on our team ,it is one of the smallest staffs on the league ,as for Ryan even if he doesnt sign we will ship him out at the deadline next season

- top shelf 15

Even if they're in a similar position as this year? Right on the bubble?
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Jan 14 @ 1:27 PM ET
Even if they're in a similar position as this year? Right on the bubble?
- Feeling Glucky?
He doesnt sign he moves ,simple as that .Cant risk losing him for nothing ,but i think he signs .He knows he will be a core piece moving forward and one of the teams marketable faces .Iam thinking 7 to 7.5 ish and a 7 year term
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Jan 14 @ 2:22 PM ET
He doesnt sign he moves ,simple as that .Cant risk losing him for nothing ,but i think he signs .He knows he will be a core piece moving forward and one of the teams marketable faces .Iam thinking 7 to 7.5 ish and a 7 year term

- top shelf 15

Why would being the core piece of a budget team be enticing to him?
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Jan 14 @ 2:48 PM ET
eesh- you think Foligno for Methot was a good trade for Ottawa?
- Feeling Glucky?



OMG YES!!

Murray traded for Methot who matched the team's needs more than Foligno.

Just like Schenn for JVR right???
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Jan 14 @ 2:49 PM ET
Not gonna get much for that.

Who's going to trade for a player that can't make the Sens?

- Feeling Glucky?


Phoenix or Anaheim perhaps others.

Ryan and Turris for picks and prospects who could not make the Senators.
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 108, 109, 110, 111, 112, 113, 114, 115, 116, 117, 118, 119, 120, 121, 122, 123, 124, 125, 126, 127, 128, 129, 130, 131, 132, 133, 134, 135, 136, 137, 138, 139, 140, 141, 142, 143, 144, 145, 146, 147, 148, 149, 150, 151, 152, 153, 154, 155, 156, 157, 158, 159, 160, 161, 162, 163, 164, 165, 166, 167, 168, 169, 170, 171, 172, 173, 174, 175, 176, 177, 178, 179, 180, 181, 182, 183, 184, 185, 186, 187, 188, 189, 190, 191, 192, 193, 194, 195, 196, 197, 198, 199, 200, 201, 202, 203, 204, 205, 206, 207, 208, 209, 210, 211, 212, 213, 214, 215, 216, 217, 218, 219, 220, 221, 222, 223, 224, 225, 226, 227, 228, 229, 230, 231, 232, 233, 234, 235, 236, 237, 238, 239, 240, 241, 242, 243, 244, 245, 246, 247, 248, 249, 250, 251, 252, 253, 254, 255, 256, 257, 258, 259, 260, 261, 262, 263, 264, 265, 266, 267, 268, 269, 270, 271, 272, 273, 274, 275, 276, 277, 278, 279, 280, 281, 282, 283, 284, 285, 286, 287, 288, 289, 290, 291, 292, 293, 294, 295, 296, 297, 298, 299, 300, 301, 302, 303, 304, 305, 306, 307, 308, 309, 310, 311, 312, 313, 314, 315, 316, 317, 318, 319, 320, 321, 322, 323, 324, 325, 326, 327, 328, 329, 330, 331, 332, 333, 334, 335, 336, 337, 338, 339, 340, 341, 342, 343, 344, 345, 346, 347, 348, 349, 350, 351, 352, 353, 354, 355, 356, 357, 358, 359, 360, 361, 362, 363, 364, 365, 366, 367, 368, 369, 370, 371, 372, 373, 374, 375, 376, 377, 378, 379, 380, 381, 382, 383, 384, 385, 386, 387, 388, 389, 390, 391, 392, 393, 394, 395, 396, 397, 398, 399, 400, 401, 402, 403, 404, 405, 406, 407, 408, 409, 410, 411, 412, 413, 414, 415, 416, 417, 418, 419, 420, 421, 422, 423, 424, 425, 426, 427, 428, 429, 430, 431, 432, 433, 434, 435, 436, 437, 438, 439, 440, 441, 442, 443, 444, 445, 446, 447, 448, 449, 450, 451, 452, 453, 454, 455, 456, 457, 458, 459, 460, 461, 462, 463, 464, 465, 466, 467, 468, 469, 470, 471, 472, 473, 474, 475, 476, 477, 478, 479, 480, 481, 482, 483, 484, 485, 486, 487, 488, 489, 490, 491, 492, 493, 494, 495, 496, 497, 498, 499, 500, 501, 502, 503, 504, 505, 506, 507, 508, 509, 510, 511, 512, 513, 514, 515, 516, 517, 518, 519, 520, 521, 522, 523, 524, 525, 526, 527, 528, 529, 530, 531, 532, 533, 534, 535, 536, 537, 538, 539, 540, 541, 542, 543, 544, 545, 546, 547, 548, 549, 550, 551, 552, 553, 554, 555, 556, 557, 558, 559, 560, 561, 562, 563, 564, 565, 566, 567, 568, 569, 570, 571, 572, 573, 574, 575, 576, 577, 578, 579, 580, 581, 582, 583, 584, 585, 586, 587, 588, 589, 590, 591, 592, 593, 594, 595, 596, 597, 598, 599, 600, 601, 602, 603, 604, 605, 606, 607, 608, 609, 610, 611, 612, 613, 614, 615, 616, 617, 618, 619, 620, 621, 622, 623, 624, 625, 626, 627, 628, 629, 630, 631, 632, 633, 634, 635, 636, 637, 638, 639, 640, 641, 642, 643, 644, 645, 646, 647, 648, 649, 650, 651, 652, 653, 654, 655, 656, 657, 658, 659, 660, 661, 662, 663, 664, 665, 666, 667, 668, 669, 670, 671, 672, 673, 674, 675, 676, 677, 678, 679, 680, 681, 682, 683, 684, 685, 686, 687, 688, 689, 690, 691, 692, 693, 694, 695, 696, 697, 698, 699, 700, 701, 702, 703, 704, 705, 706, 707, 708, 709, 710, 711, 712, 713, 714, 715, 716, 717, 718, 719, 720, 721, 722, 723, 724, 725, 726, 727, 728, 729, 730, 731, 732, 733, 734, 735, 736, 737, 738, 739, 740, 741, 742, 743, 744, 745, 746, 747, 748, 749, 750, 751, 752, 753, 754, 755, 756, 757, 758, 759, 760, 761, 762, 763, 764, 765, 766, 767, 768, 769, 770, 771, 772, 773, 774, 775, 776, 777, 778, 779, 780, 781, 782, 783, 784, 785, 786, 787, 788, 789, 790, 791, 792, 793, 794, 795, 796, 797, 798, 799, 800, 801, 802, 803, 804, 805, 806, 807, 808, 809, 810, 811, 812, 813, 814, 815, 816, 817, 818, 819, 820, 821, 822, 823, 824, 825, 826, 827, 828, 829, 830, 831, 832, 833, 834, 835, 836, 837, 838, 839, 840, 841, 842, 843, 844, 845, 846, 847, 848, 849, 850, 851, 852, 853, 854, 855, 856, 857, 858, 859, 860, 861, 862, 863, 864, 865, 866, 867, 868, 869, 870, 871, 872, 873, 874, 875, 876, 877, 878, 879, 880, 881, 882, 883, 884, 885, 886, 887, 888, 889, 890, 891, 892, 893, 894, 895, 896, 897, 898, 899, 900, 901, 902, 903, 904, 905, 906, 907, 908, 909, 910, 911, 912, 913, 914, 915, 916, 917, 918, 919, 920, 921, 922, 923, 924, 925, 926, 927, 928, 929, 930, 931, 932, 933, 934, 935, 936, 937, 938, 939, 940, 941, 942, 943, 944, 945, 946, 947, 948, 949, 950, 951, 952, 953, 954, 955, 956, 957, 958, 959, 960, 961, 962, 963, 964, 965, 966, 967, 968, 969, 970, 971, 972, 973, 974, 975, 976, 977, 978, 979, 980, 981, 982, 983, 984, 985, 986, 987, 988, 989, 990, 991, 992, 993, 994, 995, 996, 997, 998, 999, 1000, 1001, 1002, 1003, 1004, 1005, 1006, 1007, 1008, 1009, 1010, 1011, 1012, 1013, 1014, 1015, 1016, 1017, 1018, 1019, 1020, 1021, 1022, 1023, 1024, 1025, 1026, 1027, 1028, 1029, 1030, 1031, 1032, 1033, 1034, 1035, 1036, 1037, 1038, 1039, 1040, 1041, 1042, 1043, 1044, 1045, 1046, 1047, 1048, 1049, 1050, 1051, 1052, 1053, 1054, 1055, 1056, 1057, 1058, 1059, 1060, 1061, 1062, 1063, 1064, 1065, 1066, 1067, 1068, 1069, 1070, 1071, 1072, 1073, 1074, 1075, 1076, 1077, 1078, 1079, 1080, 1081, 1082, 1083, 1084, 1085, 1086, 1087, 1088, 1089, 1090, 1091, 1092, 1093, 1094, 1095, 1096, 1097, 1098, 1099, 1100, 1101, 1102, 1103, 1104, 1105, 1106, 1107, 1108, 1109, 1110, 1111, 1112, 1113, 1114, 1115, 1116, 1117, 1118, 1119, 1120, 1121, 1122, 1123, 1124, 1125, 1126, 1127, 1128, 1129, 1130, 1131, 1132, 1133, 1134, 1135, 1136, 1137, 1138, 1139, 1140, 1141, 1142, 1143, 1144, 1145, 1146, 1147, 1148, 1149, 1150, 1151, 1152, 1153, 1154, 1155, 1156, 1157, 1158, 1159, 1160, 1161, 1162, 1163, 1164, 1165, 1166, 1167, 1168, 1169, 1170, 1171, 1172, 1173, 1174, 1175, 1176, 1177, 1178, 1179, 1180, 1181, 1182, 1183, 1184  Next