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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Mar 8 @ 8:17 AM ET
one thing I noticed, and saw mention of on twitter is Ottawa has faced a lot of teams backup Goalers
- senstroll



Look, you guys are just going to have to suck it up and face up to reality.

There is lots of love for Sens and how they are positioning themselves for playoffs. You should be able to handle this.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Mar 8 @ 8:17 AM ET
crickets
- spatso

I'm sorry I didn't respond to you immediately. i hope it hasn't sent you into a full on panic.

I'm not too interested in history. I know the Leafs have the Sens handily beat in that regard.

I care about the present, in which sadly neither team is in a position to compete, and the future, in which the Sens don't really play much of a role, unless they're planning a rebuild shortly.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Mar 8 @ 8:19 AM ET
one thing I noticed, and saw mention of on twitter is Ottawa has faced a lot of teams backup Goalers
- senstroll

I can believe that many teams give their starter a rest against weaker competition. Especially when said weaker competition employs rats like Brassard and Neil.
senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Mar 8 @ 8:19 AM ET
Look, you guys are just going to have to suck it up and face up to reality.

There is lots of love for Sens and how they are positioning themselves for playoffs. You should be able to handle this.

- spatso




Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Mar 8 @ 8:23 AM ET



- senstroll

Honestly, it's like reading a trump tweet.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Mar 8 @ 8:24 AM ET
I'm sorry I didn't respond to you immediately. i hope it hasn't sent you into a full on panic.

I'm not too interested in history. I know the Leafs have the Sens handily beat in that regard.

I care about the present, in which sadly neither team is in a position to compete, and the future, in which the Sens don't really play much of a role, unless they're planning a rebuild shortly.

- Feeling Glucky?


So we are going to play let's pretend again today.

Sens are deep in NHL prospects in their system...Leafs are not.

Sens are good this year. They will be better next year.

I am not the only one predicting a sophomore slump for Leafs next year. Their lack of D will be exploited in exactly the same way as it was for the Oilers over a bunch of years. Leafs have done nothing...nothing to convince anyone that they have been able to grow out of their loser tradition.
senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Mar 8 @ 8:33 AM ET
So we are going to play let's pretend again today.

Sens are deep in NHL prospects in their system...Leafs are not.

Sens are good this year. They will be better next year.

I am not the only one predicting a sophomore slump for Leafs next year. Their lack of D will be exploited in exactly the same way as it was for the Oilers over a bunch of years. Leafs have done nothing...nothing to convince anyone that they have been able to grow out of their loser tradition.

- spatso


lol

You are just a lazy troll now.

The leafs are less than 1 year from finishing 30th and are now 1 point out of a playoff spot on March 8th. Not the wild card spot you and everyone predicted.

Now you are trying to predict a sophomore slump..thats not even a thing.. when this season hasnt even ended..

And then the Oilers comparison
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Mar 8 @ 8:56 AM ET
lol

You are just a lazy troll now.

The leafs are less than 1 year from finishing 30th and are now 1 point out of a playoff spot on March 8th. Not the wild card spot you and everyone predicted.

Now you are trying to predict a sophomore slump..thats not even a thing.. when this season hasnt even ended..

And then the Oilers comparison

- senstroll


It is the no D comparison to the Oilers that is most relevant.

I watched second and third period against Wings last night. Reilly fought the puck all night. They could not clear their own zone against the Wings pop gun attack.
senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Mar 8 @ 9:03 AM ET
It is the no D comparison to the Oilers that is most relevant.

I watched second and third period against Wings last night. Reilly fought the puck all night. They could not clear their own zone against the Wings pop gun attack.

- spatso


The Rielly/Zeitsev pairing has not been great

You cant fix everything in 1 off season after a big tear down and tank... If this was any other team you would be praising them. Its really impressive how far they have come from a bad team last season.

But you troll on, I get it you abandoned the Leafs just to see them do what you wanted them to do all along. Soon they will be a very good team and the Sens will rebuilding again after they flame out this try
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Mar 8 @ 9:04 AM ET
So we are going to play let's pretend again today.

Sens are deep in NHL prospects in their system...Leafs are not.

Sens are good this year. They will be better next year.

I am not the only one predicting a sophomore slump for Leafs next year. Their lack of D will be exploited in exactly the same way as it was for the Oilers over a bunch of years. Leafs have done nothing...nothing to convince anyone that they have been able to grow out of their loser tradition.

- spatso

yes. I see you really like playing let's pretend.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Mar 8 @ 9:11 AM ET
The Rielly/Zeitsev pairing has not beet great

You cant fix everything in 1 off season after a big tear down and tank... If this was any other team you would be praising them. Its really impressive how far they have come from a bad team last season.

But you troll on, I get it you abandoned the Leafs just to see them do what you wanted them to do all along. Soon they will be a very good team and the Sens will rebuilding again after they flame out this try

- senstroll

They've got no 1st line C, very little quality forward depth, very little on the defensive side of things beyond their one dimensional #1 dman. the only reason they're in a playoff spot is strong goaltending mixed with playing in a very weak division.

And their goaltending is going to age-out soon enough, while teams like the Leafs and Sabres are going to be making the division a whole lot harder to play in.

I can't blame them for trying this season, but man, you'd think if they're blowing their future anyways, they'd try a bit harder than Brassard, Burrows, and Stalberg.
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Mar 8 @ 9:16 AM ET
They've got no 1st line C, very little quality forward depth, very little on the defensive side of things beyond their one dimensional #1 dman. the only reason they're in a playoff spot is strong goaltending mixed with playing in a very weak division.

And their goaltending is going to age-out soon enough, while teams like the Leafs and Sabres are going to be making the division a whole lot harder to play in.

I can't blame them for trying this season, but man, you'd think if they're blowing their future anyways, they'd try a bit harder than Brassard, Burrows, and Stalberg.

- Feeling Glucky?


yeah seriously, you're non-existent defence (at the NHL level or the prospect pipeline), and mediocre goaltending are going to make teams shake in their boots for years.
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: they are going to add the two best players outside the nhl (chabot and white) -spatso
Joined: 03.14.2014

Mar 8 @ 9:18 AM ET
one thing I noticed, and saw mention of on twitter is Ottawa has faced a lot of teams backup Goalers
- senstroll


Sens are better than the leafs at getting to play backup goalies
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Mar 8 @ 9:21 AM ET
I think you missed the point of my post.

Those teams that have won the cup playing that way, (i.e. tight defensive hockey) have so much talent that they still score goals. They were all phenomenally tight, and gave up very little, but due to the talent on their roster, still scored lots of goals. They relied on the system for defense, and talent for goals.

Pointing out that the Sens are 11th in the league in goals, and 13th in shots (which is in the middle third of the league, not really all that impressive), while being in the bottom third of the league for goals for, is hardly evidence that they've got all sorts of talent anywhere on the roster.

- prock






No where in this thread, has I even suggested the Senators will win the Cup this season.

I started this season, as you remember, stating that until I see how the new coaching staff and their system works, that I did not see either Ontario team making the playoffs.

Since then I've upgraded my prediction to state that the Senators should make the playoffs, and recently, after the trade deadline, even went as far as suggesting that depending how the Seeding in the conference ends up being, that if the Senators finish 2nd or 3rd in their division, I can envision a path to the Eastern Conference Finals ............ and that's as far as I see them going in the Playoffs, in a best case scenario sense.

If they drop to a WC spot, and face the Capitals........ then I would not be so optimistic of how deep they would go.


So I don't know why you're harping on "wining the Cup" with me, as I've never suggested the Senators would be serious Cup contenders ............ perhaps you're confusing me with someone with a more overly optimistic opinion on the Senators chances in the playoffs?
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Mar 8 @ 9:38 AM ET
Odds to win 2017 Eastern Conference

Washington Capitals 2/1
Columbus Blue Jackets 9/2
Pittsburgh Penguins 9/2
Montreal Canadiens 13/2
New York Rangers 13/2
Boston Bruins 11/1
Ottawa Senators 12/1




Florida Panthers 28/1
New York Islanders 28/1
leafs 28/1
Tampa Bay Lightning 30/1
Philadelphia Flyers 40/1
Buffalo Sabres 125/1
Carolina Hurricanes 150/1
Detroit Red Wings 150/1
New Jersey Devils 150/1





http://www.hockey-referen...com/friv/playoff_prob.cgi


Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Mar 8 @ 9:50 AM ET
yeah seriously, you're non-existent defence (at the NHL level or the prospect pipeline), and mediocre goaltending are going to make teams shake in their boots for years.
- sensarmy_11

Dermott and Nielsen are pretty well-regarded defensive prospects for people who know these things. But it's true that the Leafs have a need to improve their defense. Luckily they have the assets, both in terms of players and finances to improve that.

Ottawa on the other hand has neither player nor financial assets to improve. They're stuck with what little they have.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Mar 8 @ 9:52 AM ET
Odds to win 2017 Eastern Conference

Washington Capitals 2/1
Columbus Blue Jackets 9/2
Pittsburgh Penguins 9/2
Montreal Canadiens 13/2
New York Rangers 13/2
Boston Bruins 11/1
Ottawa Senators 12/1




Florida Panthers 28/1
New York Islanders 28/1
leafs 28/1
Tampa Bay Lightning 30/1
Philadelphia Flyers 40/1
Buffalo Sabres 125/1
Carolina Hurricanes 150/1
Detroit Red Wings 150/1
New Jersey Devils 150/1





http://www.hockey-referen...com/friv/playoff_prob.cgi



- D0PPELGANGER


Interesting, a team in full "win now" mode has a better long-shot chance at winning the division than the team that just drafted 1st overall.

I wonder why that page is in the "friv" category.
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Mar 8 @ 9:55 AM ET
Dermott and Nielsen are pretty well-regarded defensive prospects for people who know these things. But it's true that the Leafs have a need to improve their defense. Luckily they have the assets, both in terms of players and finances to improve that.

Ottawa on the other hand has neither player nor financial assets to improve. They're stuck with what little they have.

- Feeling Glucky?


who are you going to trade to get top end d-men?

sorry but guys like bozak and jvr don't get it done. and you can have all the money in the world but if people don't want to sign with you it's not gonna do you any good. if rumours are correct there were all kinds of players who refused to waive NTCs to play in Toronto, and I can't remember the last time you guys signed a half way decent FA............so do tell, how exactly do you plan on upgrading that defence.
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Mar 8 @ 9:56 AM ET
Interesting, a team in full "win now" mode has a better long-shot chance at winning the division than the team that just drafted 1st overall.

I wonder why that page is in the "friv" category.

- Feeling Glucky?



Which team do you think is in "full win now mode"? And by that, do you mean wining the Cup?
sensarmy_11
Ottawa Senators
Location: If Ottawa traded ryan for clarkson sens would need to add a pick - Prock, NS
Joined: 06.01.2009

Mar 8 @ 9:58 AM ET
Dermott and Nielsen are pretty well-regarded defensive prospects for people who know these things. But it's true that the Leafs have a need to improve their defense. Luckily they have the assets, both in terms of players and finances to improve that.

Ottawa on the other hand has neither player nor financial assets to improve. They're stuck with what little they have.

- Feeling Glucky?


you're right.....karlsson, turris, stone, Hoffman, Chabot, white, brown, etc, etc.......we're so screwed.

Ottawa has a good and balanced NHL roster, we have good/great prospects at every position...............while the leafs have some great young forwards....and that's about it.
Cape Breton Bruins
Boston Bruins
Location: 966 pages of no one caring, AB
Joined: 11.26.2008

Mar 8 @ 10:01 AM ET
Gluck is reeling
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: they are going to add the two best players outside the nhl (chabot and white) -spatso
Joined: 03.14.2014

Mar 8 @ 10:02 AM ET
who are you going to trade to get top end d-men?

sorry but guys like bozak and jvr don't get it done. and you can have all the money in the world but if people don't want to sign with you it's not gonna do you any good. if rumours are correct there were all kinds of players who refused to waive NTCs to play in Toronto, and I can't remember the last time you guys signed a half way decent FA............so do tell, how exactly do you plan on upgrading that defence.

- sensarmy_11


teams like the wild, ducks, isles etc. will likely be forced to move an nhl dman ... or lose a good one in the expansion draft.

they'll likely be looking for picks/prospects back that don't require expansion protection. a package of kapanen, a 1st and something else could be a pretty good starting point.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Mar 8 @ 10:03 AM ET
Which team do you think is in "full win now mode"? And by that, do you mean wining the Cup?
- D0PPELGANGER

I think Ottawa is in win-now mode.

I think they think they can win the cup, which is why they've been gutting their future.


I know they are hilariously mistaken.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Mar 8 @ 10:05 AM ET
you're right.....karlsson, turris, stone, Hoffman, Chabot, white, brown, etc, etc.......we're so screwed.

Ottawa has a good and balanced NHL roster, we have good/great prospects at every position...............while the leafs have some great young forwards....and that's about it.

- sensarmy_11

lol @ the bolded.

Honestly, I see one top line winger and one top pairing dman in that list, and then a whole lot of replacement level players. So, if you're happy with that, I'm happy.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Mar 8 @ 10:07 AM ET
teams like the wild, ducks, isles etc. will likely be forced to move an nhl dman ... or lose a good one in the expansion draft.

they'll likely be looking for picks/prospects back that don't require expansion protection. a package of kapanen, a 1st and something else could be a pretty good starting point.

- Tumbleweed

Yup, or even a guy like Nylander if the d-man is top quality and young.

Leafs have an embarrassment of riches at forward. And hell, if Ottawa trades a guy like Zibanejad for Brassard, Bozak should be able to fetch something good from a dumb GM.
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