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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
jordan456789
Joined: 10.27.2007

Dec 2 @ 2:26 PM ET
Nobody here is disagreeing with that but the simple fact is that the Sens are not rebuilding and don't seem to show any signs that they will even re-tool or make any changes. They've done nothing but stand pat or tinker as they have got worse and worse.

As for their big players getting a good return: Yes, if they waived their NTCs. Much like Toronto last year...if they had moved even two or three of Sundin, McCabe, Kaberle, Kubina or Tucker last year they would have had multiple first round picks and several young prospects (Bernier, Carter, Higgins, etc. according to rumors). But obviously it's not that simple if Heatley, Spezza (in July), Alfie, Fisher, Philips and whoever else (if any) decide they want to stay in Ottawa.

- Leafer_84


Last year all the leafs wanted to stay for some reason and put a huge dent in the rebuilding process but a lot of times players waive it knowing their current team will not be very good. Who says the sens won't waive it? The leafs have some good young players on the team but with a bare AHL team it isn't good for rebuilding and will slow down the process. As for the two teams the sens have more assets and more options so that puts them ahead. They have the building blocks in place with heatley, Alfredsson, Spezza, Phillips and Volchenkov. They can either try and add pieces or trade them and rebuild. The leafs have a year head start but the sens have so many assets that it puts them ahead if they try to rebuild.
Leafer_84
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Ottawa
Joined: 08.14.2007

Dec 2 @ 2:59 PM ET
Last year all the leafs wanted to stay for some reason and put a huge dent in the rebuilding process but a lot of times players waive it knowing their current team will not be very good. Who says the sens won't waive it? The leafs have some good young players on the team but with a bare AHL team it isn't good for rebuilding and will slow down the process. As for the two teams the sens have more assets and more options so that puts them ahead. They have the building blocks in place with heatley, Alfredsson, Spezza, Phillips and Volchenkov. They can either try and add pieces or trade them and rebuild. The leafs have a year head start but the sens have so many assets that it puts them ahead if they try to rebuild.
- jordan456789


I'm not saying they won't waive but it is a possibility...especially seeing as the likes of Spezza and Heatley took massive discounts because they cared more about term and security than dollar amount.

Once again I don't disagree with you: Theoretically IF Ottawa decided to make moves and were able to do so they would be ahead of the Leafs...but until they do so the Leafs are in a better situation because they are committed to a rebuild. It will just be more apparent if the Leafs are big sellers at the deadline this year and get the likes of Kaberle and Kubina to waive then the Leafs could have a couple more picks, likely even an additional first or two as well as likely getting at least one blue chip prospect or talented young player. The Sens, on the other hand, will just have another NTC to deal with (Spezza's) and if they haven't committed to a rebuild will likely have been buyers at the deadline or (at best) they hadn't made any moves and may see a UFA or RFA or two leave the team because of their cap situation (the Leafs on the other hand will have lots and lots of room to sign any UFA/RFAs and even venture into the free agent market).
RogerRoeper
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 03.27.2007

Dec 2 @ 10:18 PM ET
What would Bowman know..........
- Big T


Well apparently the Leafs were idiots not to hire him last season.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Dec 2 @ 11:40 PM ET
Well apparently the Leafs were idiots not to hire him last season.
- RogerRoeper


I heard he was offered the job, but declined.
Sp00nz
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 08.29.2006

Dec 3 @ 12:56 AM ET
I heard he was offered the job, but declined.
- Doppleganger


That he did, much to the shagrin of those borderline leafs fans who think every tom, Richard and harry wants nothing more than to don the blue and white.
RogerRoeper
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 03.27.2007

Dec 3 @ 8:14 AM ET
That he did, much to the shagrin of those borderline leafs fans who think every tom, Richard and harry wants nothing more than to don the blue and white.
- Sp00nz


Yeah well apparently Burke wanting to go to the Leafs was pure "Fantasy". That's what I was told by a lot of fans.
RogerRoeper
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 03.27.2007

Dec 3 @ 8:15 AM ET
I heard he was offered the job, but declined.
- Doppleganger


I read that Peddie would not give him full power like he gave to Burke. I don't think the Leafs really wanted Bowman.
danielmacd
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 10.03.2005

Dec 3 @ 11:40 AM ET
I read that Peddie would not give him full power like he gave to Burke. I don't think the Leafs really wanted Bowman.
- RogerRoeper


Part of leafs owners wanted bowman, part didn't. The part that didn't was peddie as he was still convinced JFJ could pull it out to make him not look quite so stupid. Also bowman was brought to the organization by tanenbaum via domi and that probably pissed peddie off.
RogerRoeper
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 03.27.2007

Dec 3 @ 12:31 PM ET
Part of leafs owners wanted bowman, part didn't. The part that didn't was peddie as he was still convinced JFJ could pull it out to make him not look quite so stupid. Also bowman was brought to the organization by tanenbaum via domi and that probably pissed peddie off.
- danielmacd


Yeah, I don't think Bowman was ever fully offered the job. The Leafs never seemed that interested in him. Apparently they only had a "Meeting".
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Feb 16 @ 11:00 AM ET
Prospects on the farm, Ottawa, not by much

Young players with the team, Toronto, by quite a bit.

First line, Ottawa by a country mile (even if they aren't proving it right now)
Second line, Toronto
Third line, toss up
4th line, toss up.

Defense, Toronto, by a long way, in both talent, youth, and depth.

Goaltending, Toronto (this is a guess that Toskala will return to form and so will Auld).

Draft picks, Ottawa.

So, if Ottawa commits to a rebuild, they could probably jump ahead of the Leafs. As long as they don't blow it all up, I give the nod to the Leafs.

- Aetherial



Today with toronto playing at a .464 points percentage, and Ottawa playing at .463 with two games in hand.....they are virtually neck and neck. Both teams will be sellers at the trade deadline and both will be selecting in the top 10 at the entry draft.

But now that the coaching philosophy has switched back to offense first, and it looks at this point that the Senators are going to finish ahead of the leafs and will "in a better position" by the time next season starts.
nightmare3020
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Windsor Area, ON
Joined: 08.23.2006

Feb 16 @ 12:55 PM ET
im still not sold(no pun intended) that the sens will be sellers

who are they willing to move? if its guys like mccamond and neil they wont get hardly anything, if at all in return

are they willing to bite the bullet and move guys like phillips, maybe even spezza and alfredson? id still say no so we are back to square one
RogerRoeper
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 03.27.2007

Feb 16 @ 8:34 PM ET
Based on the comments from Ottawa, i'm not convinced they're sellers either. Their owner thinks they're cup contenders.
Sp00nz
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 08.29.2006

Feb 16 @ 8:44 PM ET
Based on the comments from Ottawa, i'm not convinced they're sellers either. Their owner thinks they're cup contenders.
- RogerRoeper


Really? Last time Melnyk opened his mouth he said that he didn't believe the team should be blown up, but in the near future key decisions would have to be made.

Maybe you're thinking about Melnyk's press conference a few months before that. When he said he believed the team would rally late in the season and contend for the cup, which is what every team that makes the playoffs does.

People sure like to twist words on this board.
RogerRoeper
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 03.27.2007

Feb 16 @ 8:47 PM ET
Really? Last time Melnyk opened his mouth he said that he didn't believe the team should be blown up, but in the near future key decisions would have to be made.

Maybe you're thinking about Melnyk's press conference a few months before that. When he said he believed the team would rally late in the season and contend for the cup, which is what every team that makes the playoffs does.

People sure like to twist words on this board.

- Sp00nz


At Christmas time Melnyk stated he believed Ottawa was a top 4 team in the East and was going to turn it around.
Sp00nz
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 08.29.2006

Feb 16 @ 9:22 PM ET
At Christmas time Melnyk stated he believed Ottawa was a top 4 team in the East and was going to turn it around.
- RogerRoeper


Indeed. He never said they'd win the Stanley Cup
RogerRoeper
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 03.27.2007

Feb 16 @ 10:03 PM ET
Indeed. He never said they'd win the Stanley Cup
- Sp00nz


I didn't claim he said they'd win the cup, but he did see them as contenders and not a team that will miss the playoffs.
Leafy_84
Toronto Maple Leafs
Joined: 12.29.2008

Feb 16 @ 10:52 PM ET
I didn't claim he said they'd win the cup, but he did see them as contenders and not a team that will miss the playoffs.
- RogerRoeper


Plus there was this quote from Bryan Murray in the Sun today:
"If we keep playing well in the next couple of weeks, then, sure, I'd consider the possibility of getting us help at the deadline," said Murray. "We're playing well as a team. We just have to keep having success."

Doesn't really sound like a guy committed to a rebuild.
RogerRoeper
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 03.27.2007

Feb 16 @ 11:06 PM ET
This late run by the Sens is nothing but bad news. They'll be buyers at the deadline, and they'll be fighting for 9th place.
BryanSpitterMurray
Joined: 12.04.2007

Feb 16 @ 11:07 PM ET
This late run by the Sens is nothing but bad news. They'll be buyers at the deadline, and they'll be fighting for 9th place.
- RogerRoeper



Leafy_84
Toronto Maple Leafs
Joined: 12.29.2008

Feb 16 @ 11:08 PM ET
This late run by the Sens is nothing but bad news. They'll be buyers at the deadline, and they'll be fighting for 9th place.
- RogerRoeper


And that's bad news because?
RogerRoeper
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 03.27.2007

Feb 16 @ 11:14 PM ET
And that's bad news because?
- Leafy_84


Bad news for Ottawa but great news for the Leafs.

HUGE night for "Tank Nation" BTW. The Isles, Sens and Blues won, and Atlanta is up on L.A 3-0 thus far.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Feb 17 @ 12:19 AM ET
Murray knows this team will not make the playoffs. They would have to win 20 of their remaining 27 games minimum, just to get to 92 points, which was needed last season to secure the eighth seed. This is not enough though, they need collapses of four or five teams ahead of them in the standings, with these teams surrendering two points to another team ahead of the Sens in the standings. See the problem???? There are not enough games left in the season for the Sens to make the the playoffs............and Murray knows this. Any UFA on the roster on Deadline day will be up for grabs if the offer is worth it.
Sp00nz
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 08.29.2006

Feb 17 @ 1:17 AM ET
Plus there was this quote from Bryan Murray in the Sun today:
"If we keep playing well in the next couple of weeks, then, sure, I'd consider the possibility of getting us help at the deadline," said Murray. "We're playing well as a team. We just have to keep having success."

Doesn't really sound like a guy committed to a rebuild.

- Leafy_84


One constant in every human is that we yearn for what we can't have.

Murray did two things with that statement. He appeased the fans and whetted the appetites of other gms.
brewstir
Edmonton Oilers
Location: Brandon, MB
Joined: 06.25.2007

Feb 17 @ 11:07 AM ET
Really? Last time Melnyk opened his mouth he said that he didn't believe the team should be blown up, but in the near future key decisions would have to be made.

Maybe you're thinking about Melnyk's press conference a few months before that. When he said he believed the team would rally late in the season and contend for the cup, which is what every team that makes the playoffs does.

People sure like to twist words on this board.

- Sp00nz



I think what Melnyk was saying is that you do not blow up the roster and trade guys 25 (spez) and 27 (heater) years old who could put up 100 points each. They also have no intrest in trading their 35 year old captain who has a cap hit of just over 5 mil and can still put up point with the best of em. Teams that need to blow up their rosters don't have these guys and need to draft them because you just cannot trade for them.

the moves that we can expect from the Sens is going to be on the back end. Rebuild the bottom 4 D and do some fliping of the bottom 6 forwards and maybe pick up goaltender. NOthing that could not be done on an active off-season. These changes do not require that the Sens have to bottom feed for a year or two, so there will not be any "rebuild" anytime soon.

sens rock
Joined: 09.30.2007

Feb 17 @ 11:39 AM ET
Plus there was this quote from Bryan Murray in the Sun today:
"If we keep playing well in the next couple of weeks, then, sure, I'd consider the possibility of getting us help at the deadline," said Murray. "We're playing well as a team. We just have to keep having success."

Doesn't really sound like a guy committed to a rebuild.

- Leafy_84


Ottawa doesn't need to rebuild.
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