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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Feb 28 @ 11:30 AM ET
a 4th liner doesn't really improve their chances of making the playoffs. gauthier was the least of their problems. if boyle was signed for another year or two it'd be more palatable. the leafs should not be buyers right now. it's insane that they are. feels like a burke move.
- daeth


hence my comment about abandoning the Shanaplan
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Feb 28 @ 11:37 AM ET
Arguable, because he's a leaf for 21 games, plus any in the playoffs. So very short period of time to be of significant benefit as you pointed out.

Don't think they'll be signing him beyond that.

And yes, you've stated (earlier in the season) that there are a number of pieces that could have been moved at the deadline, but will not now ......... and there is not a real guarantee that they'll make the playoffs this season (66%), and if they do , just like the Sens, not a very good chance they can go beyond two rounds.

- D0PPELGANGER



Yes, I'm saying that this is the first playoff run for a bunch of very young kids. Having someone there to "show them how it's done" can be of value.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Feb 28 @ 11:39 AM ET
Seems like that's the perfect time to trade vets who have reached their full value to me.
- prock


You need 6 very good players and a bunch of really good role players to win a Stanley Cup. And you need a superstar that is able to carry to team when it gets really tough.

You need an elite centre, a power forward, a speed forward, an elite #1 D, a solid #2 D and a good NHL goaltender.

A guy like a Brian Boyle is a great fit on any team that has a Stamkos, Kucherov, Hedman, Stralman and Bishop et. al., Good role players can be the difference between making the playoffs and winning a championship or not. Really important, a player that does not succeed as a good 1st or 2nd line player cannot always drop down and be a good role player.


twiztedmike
Toronto Maple Leafs
Joined: 10.06.2007

Feb 28 @ 11:41 AM ET
You need 6 very good players and a bunch of really good role players to win a Stanley Cup. And you need a superstar that is able to carry to team when it gets really tough.

You need an elite centre, a power forward, a speed forward, an elite #1 D, a solid #2 D and a good NHL goaltender.

A guy like a Brian Boyle is a great fit on any team that has a Stamkos, Kucherov, Hedman, Stralman and Bishop et. al., Good role players can be the difference between making the playoffs and winning a championship or not. Really important, a player that does not succeed as a good 1st or 2nd line player cannot always drop down and be a good role player.

- spatso

you are a dense mother(frank)er
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Keller and Strome could both be better than Tavares. jimmy troller
Joined: 03.14.2014

Feb 28 @ 11:43 AM ET
They gave up a 2nd round pick for a 4th liner

Come on

You can get 4th liners for a 6th round pick

- twiztedmike


winnik brought back a 6th when we sold him?
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Feb 28 @ 11:44 AM ET
You need 6 very good players and a bunch of really good role players to win a Stanley Cup. And you need a superstar that is able to carry to team when it gets really tough.

You need an elite centre, a power forward, a speed forward, an elite #1 D, a solid #2 D and a good NHL goaltender.

A guy like a Brian Boyle is a great fit on any team that has a Stamkos, Kucherov, Hedman, Stralman and Bishop et. al., Good role players can be the difference between making the playoffs and winning a championship or not. Really important, a player that does not succeed as a good 1st or 2nd line player cannot always drop down and be a good role player.

- spatso



What's your point?
twiztedmike
Toronto Maple Leafs
Joined: 10.06.2007

Feb 28 @ 11:44 AM ET
winnik brought back a 6th when we sold him?
- Tumbleweed

Listen

Just because 1 idiot jumps off a bridge to kill himself doesn't mean its acceptable or right or something anyone else should do. Maybe you should, I dunno.
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Keller and Strome could both be better than Tavares. jimmy troller
Joined: 03.14.2014

Feb 28 @ 11:46 AM ET
Listen

Just because 1 idiot jumps off a bridge doesn't mean its acceptable or right or something anyone else should do. Maybe you should, I dunno.

- twiztedmike


veteran nhler's who can play a depth role don't go for 6th's.

junk players like holland who should be in the ahl do.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Feb 28 @ 11:46 AM ET
Really good teams might add two rookies in an exceptional year. Bad teams can add multiple rookies because they are invested in the future rather than the immediate season.

So, if a team adds a rookie player or two each year they still have another 5 or 6 top prospects picks playing at a lower level that is likely never going to make it. If a team has multiple prospects, it is crazy not to move them as part of your asset management. Chicago, Pittsburgh and LA are teams that have had great post season success. They have also moved assets every year in order to fill in the missing holes.
twiztedmike
Toronto Maple Leafs
Joined: 10.06.2007

Feb 28 @ 11:48 AM ET
veteran nhler's who can play a depth role don't go for 6th's.

junk players like holland who should be in the ahl do.

- Tumbleweed

no

its the trade deadline where once a year, GMs go full spatso and overpay when they really shouldn't
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Feb 28 @ 11:48 AM ET
What's your point?
- prock


Boyle is a good trade for the Leafs.
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Keller and Strome could both be better than Tavares. jimmy troller
Joined: 03.14.2014

Feb 28 @ 11:52 AM ET
no

its the trade deadline where once a year, GMs go full spatso and overpay when they really shouldn't

- twiztedmike



the trade deadline allows to you build a roster that you would otherwise not be able to at the beginning of the year. there is a premium attached to that.

our cupboards are plenty full, and we'll be reacquiring picks when we sell bozak and jvr.

it's ok to trade picks, as long as you recoup them.

twiztedmike
Toronto Maple Leafs
Joined: 10.06.2007

Feb 28 @ 11:58 AM ET
the trade deadline allows to you build a roster that you would otherwise not be able to at the beginning of the year. there is a premium attached to that.

our cupboards are plenty full, and we'll be reacquiring picks when we sell bozak and jvr.

it's ok to trade picks, as long as you recoup them.

- Tumbleweed

Having three seconds this year would have allowed us to move up in the draft very easily and very high
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Keller and Strome could both be better than Tavares. jimmy troller
Joined: 03.14.2014

Feb 28 @ 12:00 PM ET
Having three seconds this year would have allowed us to move up in the draft very easily and very high
- twiztedmike


moving up in the draft is a burke move.

gm's overvalue moving up. moving down in the 2nd/3rd rounds is where it's at.

odds of finding nhl players in the 2nd/3rd rounds aren't that much different.
twiztedmike
Toronto Maple Leafs
Joined: 10.06.2007

Feb 28 @ 12:03 PM ET
moving up in the draft is a burke move.

gm's overvalue moving up. moving down in the 2nd/3rd rounds is where it's at.

odds of finding nhl players in the 2nd/3rd rounds aren't that much different.

- Tumbleweed



what are these, alternative facts?
senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Feb 28 @ 12:03 PM ET
a 4th liner doesn't really improve their chances of making the playoffs. gauthier was the least of their problems. if boyle was signed for another year or two it'd be more palatable. the leafs should not be buyers right now. it's insane that they are. feels like a burke move.
- daeth


the move doesnt bother me

If it means less of Smith. Boyle is a good 3/4 option. its def one of thier problems
Also he seems like a Babcock type of player...wouldnt surprise me if they sign him later.

Also we dont know what the moves are yet between this point and the draft.

A couple small moves to hopefully push towards the playoffs is fine... the perpetual rebuild stuff had to start to end
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Keller and Strome could both be better than Tavares. jimmy troller
Joined: 03.14.2014

Feb 28 @ 12:04 PM ET


what are these, alternative facts?

- twiztedmike


why do you think the leafs trade down? pretty easy to read up on draft history.
twiztedmike
Toronto Maple Leafs
Joined: 10.06.2007

Feb 28 @ 12:05 PM ET
why do you think the leafs trade down? pretty easy to read up on draft history.
- Tumbleweed

Yeah we traded down and got Bracco and some other middling prospects when we could have Travis Kocecny

don't have to look very far at all
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Keller and Strome could both be better than Tavares. jimmy troller
Joined: 03.14.2014

Feb 28 @ 12:07 PM ET
Yeah we traded down and got Bracco and some other middling prospects when we could have Travis Kocecny

don't have to look very far at all

- twiztedmike


Bracco, dermott and dzeirkals.

And we traded up for biggs


Maybe management is still incompetent
senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Feb 28 @ 12:23 PM ET
Yeah we traded down and got Bracco and some other middling prospects when we could have Travis Kocecny

don't have to look very far at all

- twiztedmike


Leafs lost the trade cuz one of the players in in the NHL now
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Keller and Strome could both be better than Tavares. jimmy troller
Joined: 03.14.2014

Feb 28 @ 4:45 PM ET
Leafs lost the trade cuz one of the players in in the NHL now
- senstroll


sens lose trade for stalberg
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Feb 28 @ 4:50 PM ET
sens lose trade for stalberg
- Tumbleweed



12 points in almost 60 games. Why are they trading for these guys????

They're down to 8 draft picks in the next TWO drafts.

Leafs have 11 in 2018 right now alone. 7 in 2017.

They really don't seem to care about the draft anymore.
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Keller and Strome could both be better than Tavares. jimmy troller
Joined: 03.14.2014

Feb 28 @ 4:55 PM ET
12 points in almost 60 games. Why are they trading for these guys????

They're down to 8 draft picks in the next TWO drafts.

Leafs have 11 in 2018 right now alone. 7 in 2017.

They really don't seem to care about the draft anymore.

- prock


Melynk is happening.

I hope he happens again tomorrow after he hears the media taking a dump on his moves.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Feb 28 @ 4:57 PM ET
Melynk is happening.

I hope he happens again tomorrow after he hears the media taking a dump on his moves.

- Tumbleweed



desperately trying to make the playoffs?

I don't know man, they're really gutting the team of draft picks. So little left. This causes problems long term.

They're down to a first, 4th, and 6th, in the upcoming draft.

No draft picks. No cap space/budget. Aging players.
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Keller and Strome could both be better than Tavares. jimmy troller
Joined: 03.14.2014

Feb 28 @ 5:05 PM ET
desperately trying to make the playoffs?

I don't know man, they're really gutting the team of draft picks. So little left. This causes problems long term.

They're down to a first, 4th, and 6th, in the upcoming draft.

No draft picks. No cap space/budget. Aging players.

- prock


It's a mess.

And no players to trade in offseason to get draft picks back.

Melnyk is running the sens into the ground through his puppet gm. I say let him have it for as long as possible.
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