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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Feb 28 @ 10:38 AM ET
[quote=prock]Please don't reference button.


You are wiser than the average blue and white. You would know that Craig Button's most recent top 50 prospects outside the NHL includes 4 Sens and 0 Leafs. It is okay, I won't tell anybody. The listing has been around for a few weeks and I am surprised that one of the kool aid drinkers had not stumbled into it earlier.

I think this is also the article where Button says the Sens have the best prospects of Canadian team. I read it awhile ago and let it fester. Good day for someone to post it.
Gunslinger
Montreal Canadiens
Location: ID
Joined: 10.15.2011

Feb 28 @ 10:38 AM ET
They're better THIS YEAR. Not by much mind you. Going forward? Not really. I mean, I guess it's arguable that having a veteran with playoff experience can be beneficial to the development of the massive amount of kids on the roster, but that's about all.

Like I say, I would have preferred they unload more players for one more year.

- prock



all this makes sense if theyre not in a playoff spot. but they are. so dont (frank) with the good thing the kids have goin and allow them to develop in a winning environment rather than a losing one.
Gunslinger
Montreal Canadiens
Location: ID
Joined: 10.15.2011

Feb 28 @ 10:40 AM ET
[quote=prock]Please don't reference button. PlYou would know that Craig Button's most recent top 50 prospects outside the NHL includes 4 Sens and 0 Leafs. It is okay, I won't tell anybody.
- spatso



probably because leafs have 4 rookies among the top rookie scorers. sens have 0.
its ok. i wont tell anyone the differencr between buttons (opinion) rankings and actual nhl performace. 6 of the top 20. shhh dont tell anybody.
daeth
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: accuratently, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Feb 28 @ 10:44 AM ET


meltdown has begun.

2nd round pick isnt that valuable to toronto considering their depth of youth picks and prospects. Do you even Froese?

- Gunslinger

having more than one 2nd round pick doesn't devalue them. leafs overpaid for a mediocre rental. dumb trade period.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Feb 28 @ 10:46 AM ET
probably because leafs have 4 rookies among the top rookie scorers. sens have 0.
its ok. i wont tell anyone the differencr between buttons (opinion) rankings and actual nhl performace.

- Gunslinger


Sorry, you missed the context. He posted last year's story with Nylander and Marner being top non NHL players. He entirely ignored this year's list on the same theme.
Gunslinger
Montreal Canadiens
Location: ID
Joined: 10.15.2011

Feb 28 @ 10:47 AM ET
having more than one 2nd round pick doesn't devalue them. leafs overpaid for a mediocre rental. dumb trade period.
- daeth


i disagree. leafs filled a few holes in one shot. giving the youth a team to succeed with is better for their development imo. its how the kings hawks and pens got good. they supported their youth and ecouraged them to win once they proved nhl ready
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Feb 28 @ 10:49 AM ET

You are wiser than the average blue and white. You would know that Craig Button's most recent top 50 prospects outside the NHL includes 4 Sens and 0 Leafs. It is okay, I won't tell anybody. The listing has been around for a few weeks and I am surprised that one of the kool aid drinkers had not stumbled into it earlier.

I think this is also the article where Button says the Sens have the best prospects of Canadian team. I read it awhile ago and let it fester. Good day for someone to post it.

- spatso



I don't like referencing Button because he's an idiot. Always has been, even when he had the Leafs as top dog in terms of prospects.
daeth
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: accuratently, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Feb 28 @ 10:51 AM ET
i disagree. leafs filled a few holes in one shot. giving the youth a team to succeed with is better for their development imo. its how the kings hawks and pens got good. they supported their youth and ecouraged them to win once they proved nhl ready
- Gunslinger

a 4th liner doesn't really improve their chances of making the playoffs. gauthier was the least of their problems. if boyle was signed for another year or two it'd be more palatable. the leafs should not be buyers right now. it's insane that they are. feels like a burke move.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Feb 28 @ 10:52 AM ET
all this makes sense if theyre not in a playoff spot. but they are. so dont (frank) with the good thing the kids have goin and allow them to develop in a winning environment rather than a losing one.
- Gunslinger


There is some truth to that. But it comes down to what you think is more beneficial. The help you get now from vets like Bozak and Polak vs the help you get down the line from the picks you could get from them.

LIke I say earlier, there is some benefit to having some vets around these kids, potentially going into their first NHL playoff run, with most of them in the 20 year old region.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Feb 28 @ 10:54 AM ET
probably because leafs have 4 rookies among the top rookie scorers. sens have 0.
its ok. i wont tell anyone the differencr between buttons (opinion) rankings and actual nhl performace. 6 of the top 20. shhh dont tell anybody.

- Gunslinger



it's like 6 Leafs in the top 15 rookie scorers or something like that. or is that what you meant by 6 in the top 20?
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Feb 28 @ 10:54 AM ET
having more than one 2nd round pick doesn't devalue them. leafs overpaid for a mediocre rental. dumb trade period.
- daeth

I'm with Gunslinger here. I'm not convinced he's just a rental either, but our GM is smart enough to let him play a few games before committing, and knows that if he signs him after the expansion draft he doesn't have to protect him.

For what it's worth Boyle seems excited to come here and play for Babcock.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Feb 28 @ 10:55 AM ET
a 4th liner doesn't really improve their chances of making the playoffs. gauthier was the least of their problems. if boyle was signed for another year or two it'd be more palatable. the leafs should not be buyers right now. it's insane that they are. feels like a burke move.
- daeth



Let's not overreact either though. It's one small trade. I'd be reluctant to call them buyers if that's all they do.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Feb 28 @ 10:55 AM ET
a 4th liner doesn't really improve their chances of making the playoffs. gauthier was the least of their problems. if boyle was signed for another year or two it'd be more palatable. the leafs should not be buyers right now. it's insane that they are. feels like a burke move.
- daeth

I wouldn't be surprised to see Bozak moved for defensive help. It's not super-common, but actual hockey trades do happen at the deadline as well.

In that case, the center depth helps.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Feb 28 @ 11:03 AM ET
I don't like referencing Button because he's an idiot. Always has been, even when he had the Leafs as top dog in terms of prospects.
- prock


I don't disagree.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Feb 28 @ 11:04 AM ET
having more than one 2nd round pick doesn't devalue them. leafs overpaid for a mediocre rental. dumb trade period.
- daeth

It kind of does. It's good to have a steady stockpile of young players who can come up, but you also don't want a log-jam. A guy like Leivo probably would have been worth less than a 2nd before he got back into the line-up, just because he was stuck in that no-mans land between the NHL & Waivers+AHL.

So while the 2nd round pick still holds value, acquiring a veteran presence is one of the ways you spend that value.
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Feb 28 @ 11:05 AM ET
It kind of does. It's good to have a steady stockpile of young players who can come up, but you also don't want a log-jam. A guy like Leivo probably would have been worth less than a 2nd before he got back into the line-up, just because he was stuck in that no-mans land between the NHL & Waivers+AHL.

So while the 2nd round pick still holds value, acquiring a veteran presence is one of the ways you spend that value.

- Feeling Glucky?



yes, yes you do want a log jam. You absolutely do.
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: avid reader of the daily douche news
Joined: 03.14.2014

Feb 28 @ 11:14 AM ET
Sorry, you missed the context. He posted last year's story with Nylander and Marner being top non NHL players. He entirely ignored this year's list on the same theme.
- spatso


(frank)s sake.

Yes, i meant to post this year's. The one that has dahlen at 5 for the sens.

We went over this list last week. Nobody is hiding from it.
daeth
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: accuratently, ON
Joined: 09.15.2005

Feb 28 @ 11:20 AM ET
It kind of does. It's good to have a steady stockpile of young players who can come up, but you also don't want a log-jam. A guy like Leivo probably would have been worth less than a 2nd before he got back into the line-up, just because he was stuck in that no-mans land between the NHL & Waivers+AHL.

So while the 2nd round pick still holds value, acquiring a veteran presence is one of the ways you spend that value.

- Feeling Glucky?

Sounds like you're trying to convince yourself more than anything. Those aren't good points imo. You can never have too many young players, especially since most end up being busts (this pick they traded away included). You need as many picks as possible to ensure you never run out of depth.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Feb 28 @ 11:23 AM ET
yes, yes you do want a log jam. You absolutely do.
- prock

no, you want to maximize the value of your assets. You want to have an excess of prospects, for sure, but you don't want good prospects to sit in limbo either, because that reduces the asset value.
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Feb 28 @ 11:24 AM ET
Sounds like you're trying to convince yourself more than anything. Those aren't good points imo. You can never have too many young players, especially since most end up being busts (this pick they traded away included). You need as many picks as possible to ensure you never run out of depth.
- daeth

I like the trade, no need to convince myself.

Leafs have a lot of depth, but they lack good veterans. I dont' want them throwing away 1sts and prospects on expensive rentals, but I think this is a good value move.

prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Feb 28 @ 11:26 AM ET
no, you want to maximize the value of your assets. You want to have an excess of prospects, for sure, but you don't want good prospects to sit in limbo either, because that reduces the asset value.
- Feeling Glucky?



Seems like that's the perfect time to trade vets who have reached their full value to me.
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Feb 28 @ 11:26 AM ET
They're better THIS YEAR. Not by much mind you. Going forward? Not really. I mean, I guess it's arguable that having a veteran with playoff experience can be beneficial to the development of the massive amount of kids on the roster, but that's about all.

Like I say, I would have preferred they unload more players for one more year.

- prock


Arguable, because he's a leaf for 21 games, plus any in the playoffs. So very short period of time to be of significant benefit as you pointed out.

Don't think they'll be signing him beyond that.

And yes, you've stated (earlier in the season) that there are a number of pieces that could have been moved at the deadline, but will not now ......... and there is not a real guarantee that they'll make the playoffs this season (66%), and if they do , just like the Sens, not a very good chance they can go beyond two rounds.
twiztedmike
Seattle Kraken
Joined: 10.06.2007

Feb 28 @ 11:26 AM ET
I like the trade, no need to convince myself.

Leafs have a lot of depth, but they lack good veterans. I dont' want them throwing away 1sts and prospects on expensive rentals, but I think this is a good value move.

- Feeling Glucky?

They gave up a 2nd round pick for a 4th liner

Come on

You can get 4th liners for a 6th round pick
prock
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Bobby Ryan + 1st rounder for Clarkson, ON
Joined: 08.30.2007

Feb 28 @ 11:27 AM ET
I like the trade, no need to convince myself.

Leafs have a lot of depth, but they lack good veterans. I dont' want them throwing away 1sts and prospects on expensive rentals, but I think this is a good value move.

- Feeling Glucky?



I think it's a move that should barely make the news.
D0PPELGANGER
Ottawa Senators
Location: Ottawa, ON
Joined: 05.06.2015

Feb 28 @ 11:28 AM ET
having more than one 2nd round pick doesn't devalue them. leafs overpaid for a mediocre rental. dumb trade period.
- daeth


they're not alone, a lot of teams are overpaying for "rentals" ......
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