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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Sep 22 @ 10:12 AM ET
Dion Gunner
Gards Ranger

- burn


Not enough size. The average weight of that top 4 would be a shade under 200 lbs (avg). That is just big enough by NHL standards. Need a way to get Franson back in line up.
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Sep 22 @ 10:45 AM ET
Not enough size. The average weight of that top 4 would be a shade under 200 lbs (avg). That is just big enough by NHL standards. Need a way to get Franson back in line up.
- spatso





That is big enough especially since A) there is a good mix of size and speed and B) Franon despite his size doesn't really use it (He started to more last year, but Ranger is strong and more aggresive).

Size and speed mix is just fine.
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Sep 22 @ 10:46 AM ET
Not enough size. The average weight of that top 4 would be a shade under 200 lbs (avg). That is just big enough by NHL standards. Need a way to get Franson back in line up.
- spatso



and as for franson, he wasn't top 4 last year and there is no guarantee hes top 4 this year either.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Sep 22 @ 10:53 AM ET
and as for franson, he wasn't top 4 last year and there is no guarantee hes top 4 this year either.
- burn


I thought Franson was the Leafs best all around D man during the second half last year.
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Sep 22 @ 11:02 AM ET
I thought Franson was the Leafs best all around D man during the second half last year.
- spatso



and into the playoffs.....but he has to come in a show it again. He wasn't going to be given a top 4 spot.

Ranger is showing that he's capable of playing top4 defensively again, and is able to chip in offensively.

Franosn is sitting out and others are stepping into that role. He's losing out.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Sep 22 @ 11:26 AM ET
and into the playoffs.....but he has to come in a show it again. He wasn't going to be given a top 4 spot.

Ranger is showing that he's capable of playing top4 defensively again, and is able to chip in offensively.

Franosn is sitting out and others are stepping into that role. He's losing out.

- burn


I think it will be a huge mistake if Nonis lets Franson head to Europe.

I don't think it happens. But I do not think he is replaced as easily as you apparently do.

TheTaoOfSemenko
Vegas Golden Knights
Joined: 07.01.2009

Sep 22 @ 11:30 AM ET
I think it will be a huge mistake if Nonis lets Franson head to Europe.

I don't think it happens. But I do not think he is replaced as easily as you apparently do.

- spatso

It would be better if they had someone more seasoned like Jared Cowen. Guys a beast.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Sep 22 @ 11:38 AM ET
It would be better if they had someone more seasoned like Jared Cowen. Guys a beast.
- TheTaoOfSemenko


I agree that Cowen is a very imposing presence. But, he needs to put in a few years without going down with a long term injury.
TheTaoOfSemenko
Vegas Golden Knights
Joined: 07.01.2009

Sep 22 @ 11:41 AM ET
I agree that Cowen is a very imposing presence. But, he needs to put in a few years without going down with a long term injury.
- spatso

No doubt, but the Leafs could use someone with his seasoning on the blueline, not to mention his physical presence. They're a little soft back there.
spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Sep 22 @ 11:59 AM ET
No doubt, but the Leafs could use someone with his seasoning on the blueline, not to mention his physical presence. They're a little soft back there.
- TheTaoOfSemenko


There is no doubt the Leafs lack size among some of their key skill players. Pretty frightening prospect for the Leafs if they put out Orr and McClaren and a team like the Senators counters with Pageau, Conacher and Condra.

Things that work in a short season (48 games) might really mess you up this year (82 games).
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Sep 22 @ 3:57 PM ET
There is no doubt the Leafs lack size among some of their key skill players. Pretty frightening prospect for the Leafs if they put out Orr and McClaren and a team like the Senators counters with Pageau, Conacher and Condra.

Things that work in a short season (48 games) might really mess you up this year (82 games).

- spatso

really, our only top-6 forward that lacks size is Kessel.

Kadri is a bit on the smaller side, sure, but he can hold his own, no problem.
JVR is a giant, Lupul isn't soft by any means, and Clarkson is... well... Clarkson.

Bozak, not soft either... but probably shouldn't be a top-6 forward.

Orr and Maclaren(if they're both in the lineup) aren't there just for size... they're there purely for intimidation... and keeping rats in check... as it stands though... it's doubtful that both will be on the ice at the same time.

Bottom-6 will probably be something like Raymond-Bolland-Kulemin, McClemment-Colbourne-Orr/Mac... which IMO, is a pretty damn good bottom-6. Especially compared to the names you brought up.
RogerRoeper
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 03.27.2007

Sep 22 @ 4:40 PM ET
I think it will be a huge mistake if Nonis lets Franson head to Europe.

I don't think it happens. But I do not think he is replaced as easily as you apparently do.

- spatso


I gthink it's a huge mistake if Franson leaves for Europe. Speaking of the good of his own career.
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Sep 23 @ 8:03 AM ET
The comparison was never about skill or what role they play..... this was all about who was/wasn't established.

basically nothing you said here is relevant to the conversation.

- burn
I said cowen is more established ,in his role as second pairing shut down defender. His position!!! ,has been established since his rookie season.
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Sep 23 @ 8:05 AM ET
I agree that Cowen is a very imposing presence. But, he needs to put in a few years without going down with a long term injury.
- spatso

Yep agreed ,Ottawa,s defense has some serious potential if the pieces fall into place .It may be one of the biggest bluelines in the east
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Sep 23 @ 8:07 AM ET
really, our only top-6 forward that lacks size is Kessel.

Kadri is a bit on the smaller side, sure, but he can hold his own, no problem.
JVR is a giant, Lupul isn't soft by any means, and Clarkson is... well... Clarkson.

Bozak, not soft either... but probably shouldn't be a top-6 forward.

Orr and Maclaren(if they're both in the lineup) aren't there just for size... they're there purely for intimidation... and keeping rats in check... as it stands though... it's doubtful that both will be on the ice at the same time.

Bottom-6 will probably be something like Raymond-Bolland-Kulemin, McClemment-Colbourne-Orr/Mac... which IMO, is a pretty damn good bottom-6. Especially compared to the names you brought up.

- Feeling Glucky?

Top 6 wont be an issue for the leafs ,they have the best collection of wingers in the east they will score tons
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Sep 23 @ 8:09 AM ET
I gthink it's a huge mistake if Franson leaves for Europe. Speaking of the good of his own career.
- RogerRoeper
He needed this camp to really solidify his place in the leaf top 4 ,still think he gets signed but he moght be a little slow out of the gate due to him missing camp
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Sep 23 @ 8:25 AM ET
Like I said go back and read.





Care to show me where he says anything about roles??




- burn
Jesus dude what do you think Cowen role is ???,do you think he is a pmd ???You chose to read this as a cowen >>> gardener ,when it wasnt i just said our top 4 looks more established ,maybe i should have said established in role and or position than the leafs .
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Sep 23 @ 9:03 AM ET
I said cowen is more established ,in his role as second pairing shut down defender. His position!!! ,has been established since his rookie season.
- top shelf 15




So has gardiners!
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Sep 23 @ 9:06 AM ET
Jesus dude what do you think Cowen role is ???,do you think he is a pmd ???You chose to read this as a cowen >>> gardener ,when it wasnt i just said our top 4 looks more established ,maybe i should have said established in role and or position than the leafs .
- top shelf 15




I've said several times that i didn't see this as one vs the other. It's all about who is more established. This has nothing to do with skills or type of player they are. It's about how a guy that has less mins under his belt can be more established than the guy with more mins played.
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Sep 23 @ 9:25 AM ET
I've said several times that i didn't see this as one vs the other. It's all about who is more established. This has nothing to do with skills or type of player they are. It's about how a guy that has less mins under his belt can be more established than the guy with more mins played.
- burn
Cowen in his 90 games has played in the number 2 pairing shut down role. And established himself as being the defenseman for that role and position.Gardener had only established he was a top 4 pmd tallent ,but his position as top pair or second pair wasnt established.It looks as if he will get top pairing mins this season ,now its up to him to establish himself as the top pairing pmd
Feeling Glucky?
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tanktown, ON
Joined: 10.08.2008

Sep 23 @ 9:26 AM ET
And last night showed exactly why you need guys like Orr/Maclaren in the lineup. Scott wouldn't even think of dropping his gloves when those guys are around... and if he did, having one of those guys leave the bench to handle him sure beats losing Clarkson for 10 games.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Sep 23 @ 9:38 AM ET
And last night showed exactly why you need guys like Orr/Maclaren in the lineup. Scott wouldn't even think of dropping his gloves when those guys are around... and if he did, having one of those guys leave the bench to handle him sure beats losing Clarkson for 10 games.
- Feeling Glucky?


Just watched the "line brawl" and if Kessel keeps his hands to himself Scott would not have started swinging. That is unless there was something else that happened before.

Still don't like the two handed chops tot he ankles and then well after the melee when Scott has tied up Kessel comes in and spears him like a coward.
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Sep 23 @ 9:41 AM ET
Just watched the "line brawl" and if Kessel keeps his hands to himself Scott would not have started swinging. That is unless there was something else that happened before.

Still don't like the two handed chops tot he ankles and then well after the melee when Scott has tied up Kessel comes in and spears him like a coward.

- Doppleganger
Meh the leafs are going to be playing that style all season long ,i can see teams trying to instigate stuff with them trying to draw pp,s.Disipline will be important for them moving forward
senstroll
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Sens Suck, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Sep 23 @ 9:47 AM ET
Just watched the "line brawl" and if Kessel keeps his hands to himself Scott would not have started swinging. That is unless there was something else that happened before.

Still don't like the two handed chops tot he ankles and then well after the melee when Scott has tied up Kessel comes in and spears him like a coward.

- Doppleganger


Scott told kessel he was going to jump him. if he doesnt say that, then the stick swinging wouldnt have happened.
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Sep 23 @ 9:48 AM ET
Meh the leafs are going to be playing that style all season long ,i can see teams trying to instigate stuff with them trying to draw pp,s.Disipline will be important for them moving forward

- top shelf 15


With the focus shifted back to Divisional standings this seems like their MO to qualify for the Playoffs, and once in anything can happen seems to be their thinking.

I can see Kessel getting suspended for his gutless spear at the end of the brawl.
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