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Forums :: NHL Talk :: WHO is in a better situation: LEAFS or SENS?
Author Message
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Sep 21 @ 10:35 AM ET
Top two shut down defenders are Methot and JC ,Toronto,s are Phaneuf and Gunnerson ,Toronto,s two pmd are Franson and Gardener,where as Ottawa has EK and Weircoch.Three of ottawa top 4 are in their rolls for sure.With weircoch slotting in the 4 pmd roll.So is ottawa not more established in their pairings than Toronto is at this time with Franson still being unsigned and reilly not being ready??
- top shelf 15




top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Sep 21 @ 10:38 AM ET
You know... without Gonchar... Ottawa's d doesn't look that great.

Toronto's isn't insane either...

But I think Toronto's forward group is more superior to Ottawa's than Ottawa's D is to Toronto's

- Feeling Glucky?
This is about right ,ottawa has three established in their roles with Methot JC and EK .Wiercoch looks decent in preseason,but is far from proven .The forwards are a mixed bag ,there is a lot of depth with some nice young pieces on the rise.But its a work in progress,the strength of the team up front looks to be down the middle of the ice.But its far from certain
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Sep 21 @ 10:56 AM ET
This is about right ,ottawa has three established in their roles with Methot JC and EK .Wiercoch looks decent in preseason,but is far from proven .The forwards are a mixed bag ,there is a lot of depth with some nice young pieces on the rise.But its a work in progress,the strength of the team up front looks to be down the middle of the ice.But its far from certain

- top shelf 15



As does the Leafs, who BTW have more games under their belt but they aren't as established.
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Sep 21 @ 11:40 AM ET
As does the Leafs, who BTW have more games under their belt but they aren't as established.
- burn

Iam done going around in circles ,Our two shut down guys are JC and Methot ,Ill take them any day in their ROLE anyday over anything Toronto has to offer in the same role
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Sep 21 @ 11:41 AM ET
Iam done going around in circles ,Our two shut down guys are JC and Methot ,Ill take them any day in their ROLE anyday over anything Toronto has to offer in the same role
- top shelf 15



top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Sep 21 @ 11:44 AM ET

- burn

Dion is a good defenseman in his zone??,Gunnerson is decent but the physical play of JC is hard to ignore.So yes i would rather have Methot and JC in DEFENSE FIRST ROLE
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Sep 21 @ 11:52 AM ET
Dion is a good defenseman in his zone??,Gunnerson is decent but the physical play of JC is hard to ignore.So yes i would rather have Methot and JC in DEFENSE FIRST ROLE
- top shelf 15



Dion and Gunner played far better quality comp and did a very good job..... and they bother score more than those guys..... I'm fine with it.
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Sep 21 @ 11:57 AM ET
Dion and Gunner played far better quality comp and did a very good job..... and they bother score more than those guys..... I'm fine with it.
- burn
Again in a shut down role i like ottawa,s ,better.You seem to forget EK can outscore both combined
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Sep 21 @ 12:04 PM ET
Again in a shut down role i like ottawa,s ,better.You seem to forget EK can outscore both combined

- top shelf 15



So you keep changing everything all the time when it goes against you?? You're special. Just about everything have flown right over your head this morning.


You just said that 'in a defensive role" and I just pointed out that Gunner and Dion played better opposition. im fine with what we got.
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Sep 21 @ 12:08 PM ET
So you keep changing everything all the time when it goes against you?? You're special. Just about everything have flown right over your head this morning.


You just said that 'in a defensive role" and I just pointed out that Gunner and Dion played better opposition. im fine with what we got.

- burn
Methot didnt play aginst top lines ???Cowen also did the same in his rookie year,Also i havent changed my opinion in any fashion ,you choose to pick a fight over a precieved slight of the mighty maple leafs
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Sep 21 @ 12:12 PM ET
Methot didnt play aginst top lines ???Cowen also did the same in his rookie year

- top shelf 15



Dion played against the highest quality comp other than Chara...... So yeah point stands.
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Sep 21 @ 12:14 PM ET
Dion played against the highest quality comp other than Chara...... So yeah point stands.
- burn
And Methot wasnt on ottawa,s top pairing last season ??not my fault if we have some other defenders that can run with the ball also
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Sep 21 @ 12:22 PM ET
And Methot wasnt on ottawa,s top pairing last season ??not my fault if we have some other defenders that can run with the ball also

- top shelf 15



the point is still flying way over your head, and it's now afternoon..


He didn't face the same type of quality of competition.
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Sep 21 @ 12:22 PM ET
And Methot wasnt on ottawa,s top pairing last season ??not my fault if we have some other defenders that can run with the ball also

- top shelf 15



I don't even know what you're trying to get at with this??
Doppleganger
Ottawa Senators
Location: Reality
Joined: 08.25.2006

Sep 21 @ 1:22 PM ET
Yes ,Anderson is great but some of those stats are there because of ottawa,s very solid depth at defense.This where we should have a gap on Toronto,they were carried by their offense ,we where carried by our defense

- top shelf 15


Have either of the toronto goaltenders been invited to their respective country's Olympic training camps?
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Sep 21 @ 4:19 PM ET
I don't even know what you're trying to get at with this??
- burn

Then you get it then ,Ottawa,s top 4 is more established in its roles than Toronto,s.Cowen played top4 mins a rookie shutdown defender on a playoff team,did any of the leafs defense do this?? .Next Methot played top pairing shutdown mins last season on a playoff team in his first season as a sen,did phaneuf or gunnerson do this in their first season as a leaf top 4 blueliner???
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Sep 21 @ 4:22 PM ET
Then you get it then ,Ottawa,s top 4 is more established in its roles than Toronto,s.Cowen played top4 mins a rookie shutdown defender on a playoff team,did any of the leafs defense do this?? .Next Methot played top pairing shutdown mins last season on a playoff team in his first season as a sen,did phaneuf or gunnerson do this in their first season as a leaf top 4 blueliner???
- top shelf 15



jesus (frank)ing christ!!!

Just wow!
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Sep 21 @ 4:25 PM ET
jesus (frank)ing christ!!!

Just wow!

- burn
Instead of being surprised answer the question ??
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Sep 21 @ 4:28 PM ET
Instead of being surprised answer the question ??
- top shelf 15



You haven't answered mine from early this morning...
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Sep 21 @ 4:39 PM ET
You haven't answered mine from early this morning...
- burn
You came back with how many games the leafs defense had played in the nhl .I asked you time and time again ,how much of the leaf top 4 was established in their roles on the team ??

You come at me with Franson,s 200+ game a a defender on toronto and Gardeners 87 games Vrs cowen,s 90 games .I kept telling you Cowen has always played in the role of top 4 shutdown defender,you kept coming back and laughing at why i said established because of cowen,s lack of experience.

But Cowen ,has already established himself as a top 4 defender to our coach when he played there as a rookie in his first season and helped ottawa get into the playoffs
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Sep 21 @ 4:46 PM ET
You came back with how many games the leafs defense had played in the nhl .I asked you time and time again ,how much of the leaf top 4 was established in their roles on the team ??

You come at me with Franson,s 200+ game a a defender on toronto and Gardeners 87 games Vrs cowen,s 90 games .I kept telling you Cowen has always played in the role of top 4 shutdown defender,you kept coming back and laughing at why i said established because of cowen,s lack of experience.

But Cowen ,has already established himself as a top 4 defender to our coach when he played there as a rookie in his first season and helped ottawa get into the playoffs

- top shelf 15


And Gardiner did the same in his rookie year. Missing the point still for the last 8 hours??

FYI Cowen 1691mins total in the NHL in 89 games = 19min/game.

GArdiner 1863 in 87 games nhl games = 21.43mins/game.

Gardiner has played more MINS and his mins/game is higher but he's less established.

top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Sep 21 @ 4:51 PM ET
And Gardiner did the same in his rookie year. Missing the point still for the last 8 hours??

FYI Cowen 1691mins total in the NHL in 89 games = 19min/game.

GArdiner 1863 in 87 games nhl games = 21.43mins/game.

Gardiner has played more MINS and his mins/game is higher but he's less established.


- burn
No iam not, is cowen not a top 4 defender ???Gardener has not played in the top 4 for a 82 game sched.Cowen has and would have once again if he had not been hurt .Franson hasnt done it either, so again who is more established a defenseman in a top 4 role .
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Sep 21 @ 4:58 PM ET
No iam not is cowen not a top 4 defender ???Gardener has not played in the top 4 for a 82 game sched.Cowen has and would have once again if he had not been hurt .Franson hasnt done it either, so again who is more established a defenseman in a top 4 role .
- top shelf 15




How do you not grasp this.

GArdiner has played more mins. He played more mis/game. He's played in the top 4.


But he's not as established as the guy with less mins played??



You are certifiable.
top shelf 15
Ottawa Senators
Joined: 11.23.2008

Sep 21 @ 5:05 PM ET
How do you not grasp this.

GArdiner has played more mins. He played more mis/game. He's played in the top 4.


But he's not as established as the guy with less mins played??



You are certifiable.

- burn
Did either do it for an 82 game sched ??? NO!!! Cowen did in his rookie season and looked quite good at doing it without him we dont make the playoffs.Just because he got hurt doesnt change the fact that he had already proven he was a top 4 defender and would have likely improved upon a very sucessful rookie season.Just as Toronto is hoping with both their young pmd,s in Gardener and Franson
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Boyle > Marleau :dopes, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Sep 21 @ 5:10 PM ET
Did either do it for an 82 game sched ??? NO!!! Cowen did in his rookie season and looked quite good at doing it without him we dont make the playoffs.Just because he got hurt doesnt change the fact that he had already proven he was a top 4 defender and would have likely improved upon a very sucessful rookie season.Just as Toronto is hoping with both their young pmd,s in Gardener and Franson

- top shelf 15



GArdiner played 74 games in his rookie year avg 21:45/game, so yeah that's wrong.

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